Why don't more people use RIPTA?

[runawayjim]

PLEASE NOTE THAT RIPTA'S SCHEDULE WILL CHANGE TOMORROW AS THEY SWITCH TO THEIR WINTER SCHEDULE.

winter starts jan 21?

[Frankie811]

winter starts jan 21?

http://www.ripta.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1285

[phantombantam]

I've been riding RIPTA for about 6 months and I really like it for the most part... Except friday nights. This seems to be when all the brats on ackquidnick take the bus to providence to get wasted. Normally, I can tolerate people but these are a special breed of people who completely lack any regard for anyone else on the bus.

[Cotuit]

MAYOR PARTNERS WITH RIPTA IN PROMOTING MASS TRANSIT

[JimmyGreaves]

MAYOR PARTNERS WITH RIPTA IN PROMOTING MASS TRANSIT

I hope that in addition to the benefit of using pre-tax dollars for transit expenses that the city is also promoting the savings on auto insurance that people will enjoy by taking RIPTA to work as opposed to driving.

[mental757]

according to a blurb this morning on ch10 - Ripta ridership continues to increase...

As has been discussed in other threads, the train station for Warwick should really be seen as a way to re-construct much of the commuter routes. The Warwick station being at the airport should be used as a "min-hub" for commuters to downcity, the Kent county and lower demand southern routes, as well as the airport travelers itself.

When the MBTA extends down to URI - they should tie in that to the URI buses as well...

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...1.12fc79b1.html

[Cotuit]

Costantino complained to Alfred Moscola, RIPTA's general manager, and the other authority officials at the hearing that, "I'm getting the sense that this is not a priority" with RIPTA. He said it is "disappointing" that the studies may not be completed for the legislature to act on them this session.

Didn't the General Assembly ask them to do these studies? Was it the General Assembly who set the deadlines?

[Carter711]

Why not an above-ground electric trolley system for Providence? Trolleys are attractive, relatively inexpensive to operate, have proven to be tourist attractions on their own, and have that all important historic charm thing going for them. For a city like Providence, which is so compact and has such an extensive historic district, a trolley system would seem like a natural fit.

Imagine streetcars running down Westminster Street or maneuvering up College Hill, or tracks linking neighborhoods like Federal Hill, ALCO development to Downcity.

Of course maybe there are some underlying structural/engineering issues that would make something like this unfeasible for Providence. But it certainly does seem like something worth exploring.

Little Rock: Streetcar Success Leads to Expansion of River Rail System

[damus]

Why not an above-ground electric trolley system for Providence? Trolleys are attractive, relatively inexpensive to operate, have proven to be tourist attractions on their own, and have that all important historic charm thing going for them. For a city like Providence, which is so compact and has such an extensive historic district, a trolley system would seem like a natural fit.

Imagine streetcars running down Westminster Street or maneuvering up College Hill, or tracks linking neighborhoods like Federal Hill, ALCO development to Downcity.

Of course maybe there are some underlying structural/engineering issues that would make something like this unfeasible for Providence. But it certainly does seem like something worth exploring.

Little Rock: Streetcar Success Leads to Expansion of River Rail System

I can already imagine pissed off rhode islanders stuck in traffic behind these things. I think the main reason people don't use buses is there's some sort of stigma that isn't there with a subway system. That and everyone says (I have no idea wheter or not it's true and don't feel like looking it up atm) "buses don't relieve congestion, they only make it worse". It's probably too expensive to be built, but I think light or heavy rail system that goes underground through the center of the city and goes above ground (and traffic) through the neigborhoods could be the most beneficial public works project Providence could take on. The colleges alone provide 30k potential frequent riders. I'm not a civil engineer and have no idea how feasible a system like this is, but my guess is that if it's done right it'll work. Providence is already one of the densist cities in the nation.

Again, my idea is merely a pipe dream, and I'm probably just wasting everyone's time with my idea. Does anyone else dream of Providence with a decent rail transit system, or am I the only weirdo who does? The trolly idea is definately more feasible than mine, I'm not personally against the trolly idea, I just don't think it'd work considering the nature of Rhode Islanders.

[runawayjim]

I can already imagine pissed off rhode islanders stuck in traffic behind these things. I think the main reason people don't use buses is there's some sort of stigma that isn't there with a subway system. That and everyone says (I have no idea wheter or not it's true and don't feel like looking it up atm) "buses don't relieve congestion, they only make it worse". It's probably too expensive to be built, but I think light or heavy rail system that goes underground through the center of the city and goes above ground (and traffic) through the neigborhoods could be the most beneficial public works project Providence could take on. The colleges alone provide 30k potential frequent riders. I'm not a civil engineer and have no idea how feasible a system like this is, but my guess is that if it's done right it'll work. Providence is already one of the densist cities in the nation.

Again, my idea is merely a pipe dream, and I'm probably just wasting everyone's time with my idea. Does anyone else dream of Providence with a decent rail transit system, or am I the only weirdo who does? The trolly idea is definately more feasible than mine, I'm not personally against the trolly idea, I just don't think it'd work considering the nature of Rhode Islanders.

i like the trolley idea. i think rhode islanders would have to just suck it up and realize that maybe driving isn't the best way to get around the city. having a trolley line would mean not being able to stop your car and block part of the road.

the only problem is, there are only a few streets that would be able to handle trolleys, unless they made more of them 1 way or banned parking on some of them.

[pdxstreetcar]

I have heard that Providence may very likely be getting some sort of streetcar line to one of these new major developments (like ALCO) and that they will choose one route to serve as the test route. Also BRT is supposed to a good possibility for other corridors.

Apparently in the 1910s Providence considered building a subway system of two lines that would have crossed in front of City Hall...

The Book "Downtown: Its Rise and Fall, 1880-1950" by Robert M Fogelson talks about the proposal for several pages. Just go to Amazon and search for the book then you can search inside the book for "providence subway" and read the parts that mention it.

[Thom]

There are three different studies in process or just about to begin that examine how to make RIPTA more effiecient and how to develop a real transit system in RI. There was a workshop monday - The Governor's Design Institute - sponsored by the NEA, EPA and others that discussed ways to make a trolley system work in the metro core. It's clear that money can be found to build the system, the question is the operation. Discussions will continue. The mayor is setting up a Metro Transit Advisory committee consisting of the communites from Warwick to Pawtucket, East Providence to Providence to develop a plan to have an integrated and efficient transit system. As things develop it will be in the press. Expect by late Spring that information sessions will begin.

Should note that the RIDOT director beleives that we need a good transit system. An enlightened stand for a road guy.

By the way, the senate is holding a series of meetings over the next seven weeks on RIPTA and ways to improve it. Ken Payne Senate Policy Office is staffing the committee. Senator Dan Conners is chairing the committee. Get you comments and concerns to them.

[Recchia]

There are three different studies in process or just about to begin that examine how to make RIPTA more effiecient and how to develop a real transit system in RI. There was a workshop monday - The Governor's Design Institute - sponsored by the NEA, EPA and others that discussed ways to make a trolley system work in the metro core. It's clear that money can be found to build the system, the question is the operation. Discussions will continue. The mayor is setting up a Metro Transit Advisory committee consisting of the communites from Warwick to Pawtucket, East Providence to Providence to develop a plan to have an integrated and efficient transit system. As things develop it will be in the press. Expect by late Spring that information sessions will begin.

Should note that the RIDOT director beleives that we need a good transit system. An enlightened stand for a road guy.

By the way, the senate is holding a series of meetings over the next seven weeks on RIPTA and ways to improve it. Ken Payne Senate Policy Office is staffing the committee. Senator Dan Conners is chairing the committee. Get you comments and concerns to them.

This is very exciting to hear. I guess Capaldi is more progressive than we thought.

[brick]

This is very exciting to hear. I guess Capaldi is more progressive than we thought.

did we have something against Capaldi?

He has been saying for years that he didn't think increased highway capacity was a solution for RI's congestion problems. I know he has supported some major highway projects but the interest always seem to be safety and connection to the surface streets as it is increasing capacity.

I'm just curious if there were things he had done in the past that were less progressive.

[Cotuit]

I'm just curious if there were things he had done in the past that were less progressive.

Well there were the proposals last year to add lanes to the southern stretches of 95 and 295. Those are capacity projects, and the new lanes would simply fill up again. Working on safety on Routes 4 and 1 to the beaches is a much more important highway project and a much better way to spend money.

[Recchia]

Yes, what Cotuit said, and first-hand knowledge of the DOT's attitude toward mass transit.

[citygirl]

There are three different studies in process or just about to begin that examine how to make RIPTA more effiecient and how to develop a real transit system in RI. There was a workshop monday - The Governor's Design Institute - sponsored by the NEA, EPA and others that discussed ways to make a trolley system work in the metro core. It's clear that money can be found to build the system, the question is the operation. Discussions will continue. The mayor is setting up a Metro Transit Advisory committee consisting of the communites from Warwick to Pawtucket, East Providence to Providence to develop a plan to have an integrated and efficient transit system. As things develop it will be in the press. Expect by late Spring that information sessions will begin.

Should note that the RIDOT director beleives that we need a good transit system. An enlightened stand for a road guy.

By the way, the senate is holding a series of meetings over the next seven weeks on RIPTA and ways to improve it. Ken Payne Senate Policy Office is staffing the committee. Senator Dan Conners is chairing the committee. Get you comments and concerns to them.

I found out --after the fact from a colleague of mine at EPA --- that this design workshop had occurred (supported in part, I'm sure, by funds from a program I'm responsible for!) How about a report of the discussions and projected followup? Or even a press release that this event happened? The list of participants didn't seem to include any representatives of the public or even users!

[Jerry2]

There are quite a few roads in Providence that a trolley system would work. However, I would question their feasibility as an alternative transportation model to buses. While they may be aesthetically pleasing, what would be the difference.?They would have to take you to a destination. Maybe a circular route or a few direct routes like the Promenade idea are fine for pure aesthetic reasons. There has to be a market for this and as it stands, I really don't think there is.

Jobs, retail centers, points of interest ( etc. ) need to be built in areas where getting on a trolley makes sense. Putting a trolley up North Main Street would make sense if it was developed as a retail corridor. Putting a circular route around downtown would make sense if our political leaders pushed for more business activity downtown. As a state, we aren't doing enough to encourage, promote, and market Downtown Providence as a center for business and government. We gave tax breaks to Fidelity to build on a farm in Smithfield. We're allowing state offices to move to Cranston. With the exception of the mall, the city's retail is scattered very awkwardly over town. I live in Smith Hill. The closest supermarket: Eagle Square...dry cleaners: Chalkstone Ave...Hollywood Video: Manton Ave...Residents alone could not support a trolley system. There is no incentive to give up your car. Most people don't have the luxury of working in the city. Financial service( my profession ) jobs are mostly located in Lincoln, Smithfield, and Warwick. I was lucky to get a transfer to EP.

I love the fact that a convenience store, Dunkin Donuts, and the PP Mall are just down the street. My point is that that is not enough to support a trolley system or any other alternative means of transportation. When city planning leaders, residents, and political leaders can cohesively plan Providence's future development strategy, then alternative transportation might be something feasible.

[CtownMikey]

There are three different studies in process or just about to begin that examine how to make RIPTA more effiecient and how to develop a real transit system in RI. There was a workshop monday - The Governor's Design Institute - sponsored by the NEA, EPA and others that discussed ways to make a trolley system work in the metro core. It's clear that money can be found to build the system, the question is the operation. Discussions will continue. The mayor is setting up a Metro Transit Advisory committee consisting of the communites from Warwick to Pawtucket, East Providence to Providence to develop a plan to have an integrated and efficient transit system. As things develop it will be in the press. Expect by late Spring that information sessions will begin.

Should note that the RIDOT director beleives that we need a good transit system. An enlightened stand for a road guy.

By the way, the senate is holding a series of meetings over the next seven weeks on RIPTA and ways to improve it. Ken Payne Senate Policy Office is staffing the committee. Senator Dan Conners is chairing the committee. Get you comments and concerns to them.

Will this in any way finally move Kennedy Plaza away from the city core?

[pdxstreetcar]

The streetcar system in Portland has done miracles for the neighborhoods along the route. At least $2 Billion worth of development has been built along the route since it opened (about 90+% of the construction in central city Portland in the last 5 years has been built within 4 blocks of the route). I know the same would occur here in PVD.

[damus]

The streetcar system in Portland has done miracles for the neighborhoods along the route. At least $2 Billion worth of development has been built along the route since it opened (about 90+% of the construction in central city Portland in the last 5 years has been built within 4 blocks of the route). I know the same would occur here in PVD.

WOW! I'm gonna go look for some sites about Portland's system and read up a little on this...

To me the first thing I think of with street cars (and a lot of other people who don't know much about them I'm sure) is that they will be slow trains that block traffic and for which you have to wait around in the elements like you would wait for a bus (as opposed to a subway, warm and dry). This is a realistic proposal cost-wise. How would the service be in the case of a winter storm?

http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Streetcar

[Cotuit]

The streetcar system in Portland has done miracles for the neighborhoods along the route. At least $2 Billion worth of development has been built along the route since it opened (about 90+% of the construction in central city Portland in the last 5 years has been built within 4 blocks of the route). I know the same would occur here in PVD.

Yup, fixed route transit is a catalyst for growth.

How would the service be in the case of a winter storm?

While buses across the region get detoured and taken out of service, Boston's greenline keeps on running through the snow. It takes very extreme circumstances, like last year's blizzard, to shut the greenline (and it may not have even shut then).

[Garris]

I would question their feasibility as an alternative transportation model to buses... While they may be aesthetically pleasing, what would be the difference.?

As a state, we aren't doing enough to encourage, promote, and market Downtown Providence as a center for business and government.

With the exception of the mall, the city's retail is scattered very awkwardly over town.

When city planning leaders, residents, and political leaders can cohesively plan Providence's future development strategy, then alternative transportation might be something feasible.

Jerry makes 4 terrific points above... Point by point:

Regarding buses vs fixed rail, it's hard to explain the difference. First of all, for better or worse, most people have a very negative perception of buses and a far more positive perception of fixed rail and are more likely to use it for that reason. Fixed rail also is usually more spacious and runs more frequently, regularly, and reliably in most systems. It also has a permanance that inspires the confidence to promote development around it. Selling a condo as "on the red line!" has far better chances of being successful than, "near a bus stop!"

Many cities have done light rail first and seen development spring up around it later. Portland is the most obvious and dramatic example, but certainly Minneapolis and LA also spring to mind.

Regarding point two, you're completely correct.

Regarding point three, you're also correct. I've been very vocal on the boards here saying that Providence needs to relax regulations and promote neighborhood retail development (which the Mayor is actually doing to a degree already). Neighborhoods such as Smith Hill, the West End, Federal Hill, Wickenden, Chalkstone, downtown, etc need far more concentrated neighborhood services (dry cleaners, supermarkets, pharmacies, etc) like Wayland Sq, Hope Village, or Oak Hill offer in order to have mass transit make more sense.

Certainly can't argue with point 4 either...

- Garris

[Jerry2]

Jerry makes 4 terrific points above... Point by point:

Regarding buses vs fixed rail, it's hard to explain the difference. First of all, for better or worse, most people have a very negative perception of buses and a far more positive perception of fixed rail and are more likely to use it for that reason. Fixed rail also is usually more spacious and runs more frequently, regularly, and reliably in most systems. It also has a permanance that inspires the confidence to promote development around it. Selling a condo as "on the red line!" has far better chances of being successful than, "near a bus stop!"

Many cities have done light rail first and seen development spring up around it later. Portland is the most obvious and dramatic example, but certainly Minneapolis and LA also spring to mind.

Regarding point two, you're completely correct.

Regarding point three, you're also correct. I've been very vocal on the boards here saying that Providence needs to relax regulations and promote neighborhood retail development (which the Mayor is actually doing to a degree already). Neighborhoods such as Smith Hill, the West End, Federal Hill, Wickenden, Chalkstone, downtown, etc need far more concentrated neighborhood services (dry cleaners, supermarkets, pharmacies, etc) like Wayland Sq, Hope Village, or Oak Hill offer in order to have mass transit make more sense.

Certainly can't argue with point 4 either...

- Garris

The problem is that you need to create points of destination. Eagle Square COULD be a retail destination and an imprtant stop on a trolley line if there were more stores to support the complex. ( discount store like Costco, Target, CVS, dry cleaners, etc. ) Instead, you have this messy fabric of clustered buildings that have ( in my opinion ) hindered development. The existing retail destinations in this city ( Federal Hill, Thayer, and Wickenden) don't have the infrastructure or space to support a trolley line. Where would these people go on the trolley? Where are they coming from? Work? Where's work? Where's home? We built a mall in the center of the city. Now we should be doing everything in our power to attract businesses to the city. We are about to free up 33 acres downtown ( 195 relo) and people want to build a canal surrounded by boutiques???Providence is a great urban city with incredible density and we shouldn't sacrifice our existing neighborhoods for big developments. However, areas like Eagle Square, North Main, various semi -abandoned office parks ( Silver Spring, Huntington,etc.) can and should be developed in a way to make them important stops. The freed up land downtown should be marketed for commercial and corporate development. Leave the boutiques and visions for areas that already have the infrastructure to support it. When there are more jobs downtown, we cluster our main retail areas, and limit the non-profit expansions, only then will you see a demand for other modes of transportation.