Why don't more people use RIPTA?

[pdxstreetcar]

the new dock seems so far out of the way that the only people who benefit are park & riders, before it was a bit of a walk to downtown but now it seems like walking is out of the picture.

[runawayjim]

the new dock seems so far out of the way that the only people who benefit are park & riders, before it was a bit of a walk to downtown but now it seems like walking is out of the picture.

they extended to trolley line to make up for that...

[runawayjim]

Give RIPTA a break

[Cotuit]

Give RIPTA a break

I can agree with all of that.

RIPTA really has to get SmartCards out there. I currently use RIPTA probably around 6 times a month, even throughout the winter, and I don't even own a car. The monthly pass totally doesn't work for me, because it is way more expensive than paying cash the few times a month that I use it. However, if I had a SmartCard with money loaded on it, I may use the bus a bit more, there are some occassions where I would ride the bus, but don't have exact fare, so I just walk.

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...0.1289d19e.html

[yossarian]

I can agree with all of that.

RIPTA really has to get SmartCards out there. I currently use RIPTA probably around 6 times a month, even throughout the winter, and I don't even own a car. The monthly pass totally doesn't work for me, because it is way more expensive than paying cash the few times a month that I use it. However, if I had a SmartCard with money loaded on it, I may use the bus a bit more, there are some occassions where I would ride the bus, but don't have exact fare, so I just walk.

RIPTIKS can fullfil that same function as a SmartCard, without the cost of major technology upgrade for RIPTA, which it can ill afford. On the plus side, keeping a few in your wallet would take less space than a smart card.

[pdxstreetcar]

RIPTA a tough sell for nonriders

Bus ridership hasn't made large gains because commuters are so wedded to the automobile, according to a poll.

I have a hard time completely buying this. I think people will use RIPTA but it has to be something better than just regular bus routes on city streets, some sort of rapid transit on its own right-of-way would definately be popular. People of all income levels use the great MBTA service in Boston so its not like its a regional thing against using transit. Even Portland, OR which is less dense than Providence has 70% choice riders (70% of the riders have access to cars but choose to ride TriMet). Its about offering an attractive and pleasant alternative.

[runawayjim]

I have a hard time completely buying this. I think people will use RIPTA but it has to be something better than just regular bus routes on city streets, some sort of rapid transit on its own right-of-way would definately be popular. People of all income levels use the great MBTA service in Boston so its not like its a regional thing against using transit. Even Portland, OR which is less dense than Providence has 70% choice riders (70% of the riders have access to cars but choose to ride TriMet). Its about offering an attractive and pleasant alternative.

how many of those people of all income levels use MBTA buses? the subway and trains are glorified, they're not the same as buses. buses are for the lower class. not to mention boston's more dense than providence and absolutely nowhere near as driveable.

[Cotuit]

how many of those people of all income levels use MBTA buses?

You'd be surprised.

[damus]

You'd be surprised.

There are people who work at 1 Financial Plaza downtown wearing suits to work who take the bus... I used to do security there and the same people would be running out at night to catch their bus (which sometimes left early)...

Fixed rail being implemented is the only way I think we could see real ridership increases in Providence.

[TheBostonian]

There are many higher class people on the 73, Harvard to Waverly Square.

[JimmyGreaves]

how many of those people of all income levels use MBTA buses? the subway and trains are glorified, they're not the same as buses. buses are for the lower class. not to mention boston's more dense than providence and absolutely nowhere near as driveable.

Things can change in regards to perception. Remember in the 70s/80s when New Yorkers viewed taking the subway with more trepidation than they do now. RIPTA bus service improvements need to focus on the following areas.

Interior Appearance: Graffiti on the bus interior sends a message that the agency doesn't care about its customer.

Better Communication of Financial Incentives To Attract Riders: Taking the bus saves people money. Lower insurance premiums, Express Ride Tax Deductions. These and other benefits could save between $500-$1,000 per year.

Gas Price Fixing: RIPTA should lock in a lower diesel price at the beginning of the year like other transportation agencies. Why they claim this is not possible I have no idea.

More Advertising Revenue: The two advertising strips on the inside of the bus have very little advertising. In the face of the lack of government support, they need to start filling these ad spaces.

Hopefully, the last two items will translate into a better operating margin which will lead to better service. Ultimately, we as urban advocates and other transit champions need to lobby the state for better funding for the agency as well as the various Rhode Island cities and towns to encourage more transit oriented development in their comprehensive plans. I thinks organizations like the Sierra Club and NuPTA (New Public Transit Advocay) Coalition can help as well. 22 million riders in a state where only 2.5% of the population takes the bus to work is pretty good. It's not going to be easy to improve things, but it's possible.

[Cotuit]

There are people who work at 1 Financial Plaza downtown wearing suits to work who take the bus...

A lot of suits downtown are taking express buses to Newton, Waltham, and the North Shore. But there are people of all classes taking the local buses within Boston/Cambridge proper. Driving is so difficult, and parking is so scarce, that the bus (even if slowed by the same traffic) is an attractive alternative.

[MichaelQ]

Until Providence attracts more businesses (in turn, having more jobs) and has more expensive parking (because the new businesses will be on top of our many, many, many surface parking lots), I surmise that RIPTA ridership levels will not grow to the levels the state hopes.

Seriously, who is going to take the bus from South Kingstown to Kennedy Plaza so that they can get to their job at DSW on Route 2 in Warwick? It just doesn't make sense. Of course, our state government and local provinces (and that is purposefully written) could do more with their comprehensive plans/zoning to discourage Loews and Staples from being built everywhere. But isn't that the problem we face at the end of the day as urbanists - how do you tell a suburban community that it doesn't deserve the revenue from those kinds of developments? And how do you tell property owners that they can't do with their property what they wish. It goes without saying that it's a difficult balance.

So, to get back to the purpose of this posting, it is my opinion that RIPTA is great for what it is - a bus to a mid-size city with a limited number of available jobs. And it won't change until RI encourages businesses to set up shop in Providence before, say, on top of Fiddlesticks.

[damus]

So, to get back to the purpose of this posting, it is my opinion that RIPTA is great for what it is - a bus to a mid-size city with a limited number of available jobs. And it won't change until RI encourages businesses to set up shop in Providence before, say, on top of Fiddlesticks.

I agree, but how? There's no Wall Street that would be nice to be located near, there's no reason to pay more money for a tower downtown other than prestige. I seriously think that if federal gas taxes were raised and the some of the proceeds going towards alternative fuels with the rest given to local governments to put towards mass transit then we will see more downtown offices go up (if the companies don't leave the counry altogether). It's simply cheaper to build in the sticks, and it's a federal problem. If Rhode Island had an antisprawl law, Walmarts and Home Depots will be built along the border and businesses like Fidelity would probably just build sprawling campuses in Massachusetts.

[MichaelQ]

I agree, but how? There's no Wall Street that would be nice to be located near, there's no reason to pay more money for a tower downtown other than prestige. I seriously think that if federal gas taxes were raised and the some of the proceeds going towards alternative fuels with the rest given to local governments to put towards mass transit then we will see more downtown offices go up (if the companies don't leave the counry altogether). It's simply cheaper to build in the sticks, and it's a federal problem. If Rhode Island had an antisprawl law, Walmarts and Home Depots will be built along the border and businesses like Fidelity would probably just build sprawling campuses in Massachusetts.

I think you're right and frankly, I'm not really sure how to change it. When I said that RI needs to encourage businesses to set up shop in Providence, I was making a simplistic statement applicable if the world's borders ended at RI's. That said, I don't think that the state has ever done much in the way of making Providence the "centerpiece" of Rhode Island, like Boston is of Mass, or Philly is of SE Pennsylvania which would make businesses want to set up shop in Providence. I could go on for a few pages, but I believe that the inherent provincial nature of our smaller cities comes at a price to Providence (I grew up in Warwick and remember thinking that Providence was like two hours away because we never went there for anything - because, circa 1988, there was nothing there).

I don't know if, in the near future at least, we'll see a heavier federal gas tax (though I would love it - I hate my car anyway). How about increasing the state gas tax with the revenue streamlined into a fund to pay for LRT into Providence or expanded service of RIPTA or repaving the streets in Providence or better signage/working pedestrian street lights? Similar to the recent stance on guns...cities and states could take this problem into their own hands when the federal government fails to act.

[brick]

I don't know if, in the near future at least, we'll see a heavier federal gas tax (though I would love it - I hate my car anyway). How about increasing the state gas tax with the revenue streamlined into a fund to pay for LRT into Providence or expanded service of RIPTA or repaving the streets in Providence or better signage/working pedestrian street lights? Similar to the recent stance on guns...cities and states could take this problem into their own hands when the federal government fails to act.

One of the unique problems of Rhode Island is that these tax incentive based programs are very easy to get around. Unless you live in Washington County and some parts of Kent county you are never more than 10 minutes from buying your gas in a neighboring state. This is one reason the provinciality of New England states works against them. For something like this to work in RI, you would need at least Massachusetts to implement a similar tax.

What is really needed, though, is a way to change the overall mentality of the entire country. It would be easy to form a DC/Boston corridor alliance that held urbanism as the standard and increased mass transit and denisty while increasingly taxing individual mechanized transport (I loved that term, Cotuit). But then people and businesses would just move to North Carolina and without the people and businesses, there is no density. etc. etc. And as mentioned even if the entire country got on board, then businesses would move to China or even just to Mexico. And of course since the gas and auto lobbies are two of the most powerful lobbies in Washington and generate a large portion of our GDP, it will take a real crisis to get the rest of the country to embrace different thinking.

Anyway that is a wider subject, obviously. To the point at hand, I thought maybe a downtown car tax might be in order, something like they have in the center of London where you would have to pay $5 or something just to enter the CBD with a car. But then there isn't enough interest in being in the CBD to make that work.

[pdxstreetcar]

There was just a lecture at CNU called the 'State of Mass Transit in Rhode Island' with several speakers from local transit agencies/transit groups including the main transit planner for RIPTA.

[Soren]

Both parking and transit smart cards were mentioned at the last Forum Meeting. Why not combine the two and let passes be used for either parking or transit?

A benefit of this could be a targeted marketing campaign to people who sign up letting them know of local transit routes and schedules and re-inforcing the idea that transit is a viable daily option to driving and parking and that the same people who pay parking meters can be riding busses.

Cities could standardize on a single state-wide (or regional) format and all municipalities could benefit while users would have a simple and convenient pay-as-you go plan.

[runawayjim]

Both parking and transit smart cards were mentioned at the last Forum Meeting. Why not combine the two and let passes be used for either parking or transit?

A benefit of this could be a targeted marketing campaign to people who sign up letting them know of local transit routes and schedules and re-inforcing the idea that transit is a viable daily option to driving and parking and that the same people who pay parking meters can be riding busses.

Cities could standardize on a single state-wide (or regional) format and all municipalities could benefit while users would have a simple and convenient pay-as-you go plan.

parking smart cards would make people more likely to drive because parking would be easier than having to make sure you have change for the meters.

[Cotuit]

Both parking and transit smart cards were mentioned at the last Forum Meeting. Why not combine the two and let passes be used for either parking or transit?

I believe Boston's CharlieCard will eventually move to that kind of modle, where the card becomes more of a general debit card for things like transit, parking, coffee... One benfit is the transit agency gets money from businesses that buy into the program, i.e. Starbucks would pay MBTA a fee to have the right to use the SmartCard for customers paying for morning coffees and papers.

With Boston rolling out the CharlieCard, I'd really like to see it expand to a regional card. Someone who lives in Providence may ride the bus here on the weekends, take the Commuter Rail to Boston for work, then ride the subway or buses in Boston, imagine if all that could be done on one card (the technology is there). This of course would apply to other cities like Worcester, and Manchester, NH.

parking smart cards would make people more likely to drive because parking would be easier than having to make sure you have change for the meters.

People are going to park regardless. Making it easier for them to pay means they actually will pay, rather than saying F-it when they don't have enough change and hoping they won't get a ticket.

[yossarian]

Making it easier for them to pay means they actually will pay, rather than saying F-it when they don't have enough change and hoping they won't get a ticket.

That hope is increasingly a futile one. Ticketing enforcement downcity has increased markedly in the last year and in last few weeks spots, in fact whole streets (South Water I am looking at you) long free of meters have become metered. Though I normally take RIPTA to work, sometimes I have to drive (an appearance in a county court or a deposition at an office outside of providence). I have a genetic condition which prevents me from paying for parking (as do many of my coworkers who never take RIPTA). It used to be relatively easy to park in the downtown vicinity all day for free. It might require moving your car once, but that took only 15 minutes and was a good excuse to get outside. Now your only option is the streets above Benefit on College Hill. That climb, while never attractive, is down right scary in the winter.

Perhaps the elimination of de facto free parking in downcity will act as a spur to increased RIPTA ridership.

[Cotuit]

Psychology of the bus [ProJo.com]

[Garris]

Psychology of the bus [ProJo.com]

This was a poll of all Rhode Islanders, correct? I bet this number, " For example, 45 percent of the respondents agreed that "there is nothing RIPTA could do to get me to ride the bus." would be a lot lower in Providence or Newport proper than elsewhere. This could be an argument for why RIPTA should focus more on urban transport and less on a far-flung network. I also wonder what the answer to, "If you would never take a bus, would you take a train or trolley instead?" would be.

- Garris

[Garris]

Well, yesterday I had to drop off my car for some body work in West Warwick and I took the time to wander around Arctic Center/Village there (more about that in another thread) but I also took the RIPTA bus back home. This was my first RIPTA ride in a whlie and I thought I'd chime in with some impressions:

- I called the automated scheduling line and got a real live person instead. Good for RIPTA. However, that person had kind of a bad attitude on the phone. Bad for RIPTA. I mean, these people are getting money to essentially read the bus schedule to me. How unhappy could they be?

- I waited an hour and 20 minutes for the bus ...

- The bus itself was one of the new low riding buses, and it was great. Very smooth riding and comfortable. There was graffiti on the back of one seat, but it should be easy to remove if anyone ever notices.

- The bus route itself was packed (this at about 2 PM during the afternoon), which is a good thing, and everyone was polite and well behaved, save for a few teens picked up from Broad St.

- Kennedy Plaza was somewhat chaotic, far more garbage strewn and dirty than I recall the last time I used RIPTA. While I was there, the Providence Police was in the process of arresting someone from Burnside Park, which, while looking better these days, is still serving as little more than a place for people to loiter. Too bad...

And that was it! For $1.60 to go from West Warick to my home in Wayland Sq with good comfort and relatively little drama is still pretty sweet. Overall, I was happy with the experience.

- Garris

PS: Remember this quote from the recent ProJo article on RIPTA? "45 percent of the respondents agreed that "there is nothing RIPTA could do to get me to ride the bus"", well, I just read a near identical poll of British citizens (who supposedly are so much more mass transit oriented than we are) and the number there was 55% of drivers who said that there was no gas price that would ever be high enough for them to use mass transit. So maybe the issue isn't the attitude of the American (or RI) public, it's just that are policymakers are giving us substandard mass transit options compared to the rest of the world.