Why don't more people use RIPTA?

[damus]

The existing retail destinations in this city ( Federal Hill, Thayer, and Wickenden) don't have the infrastructure or space to support a trolley line. Where would these people go on the trolley? Where are they coming from? Work? Where's work? Where's home? We built a mall in the center of the city. Now we should be doing everything in our power to attract businesses to the city.

True. Too bad everything's being built more cheaply in the suburbs. Aren't the taxes a bit undesirable in Providence, as they are in most of the Northeast? How would Providence (and Rhode Island in general) go abouts creating a business-friendly climate without going bankrupt and/or totally neglecting its infrastructure and schools? This is too complex a topic for normal people like me (and the NIMBYs that speak out and help create this climate) to really understand, and unfortunately this isn't always on the minds of our lawmakers, either.

I'll reiterate my pipe dream: put the damn thing underground through the areas you mentioned then above ground as far reaching as is possible.

We are about to free up 33 acres downtown ( 195 relo) and people want to build a canal surrounded by boutiques???Providence is a great urban city with incredible density and we shouldn't sacrifice our existing neighborhoods for big developments.

I'm no urban planner, but there are tons of empty lots all over the city, can't the city market those? If the land owners do not want to give up their parking lots, Providence could just use eminent domain. It took a while, but waterplace is bustling now (perhaps due to the ousting of Cianci?). People like to live, work, and play near something like a nice park. Save for Johnson & Wales and Brown, I haven't heard of too many parties clamoring for these highway relocation sites. I'm sure there are a lot of parties who would like space, but how many of them need so much of it that they can't take a parcel out of Waterplace, try to buy a parking lot, or build on the old public safety complex?

Part of what makes a city liveable are things like boutiques, restaurants, medium scale developments. Even Manhattan has its fair share of 1 story buildings and it's the epitome of urbanism in this country, so I do not see how a proposed 4 story mixed use development is bad. Imagine if the 95 relocation project was designed like a large Depasquale square (hopefully with a canal cutting through the middle of it) with JWU and Brown students, new residents, and professionals from nearby businesses frequenting the restaurants and shops? In my opinion the canal idea seems like a great way to create from nothing a highly desirable, hip location to conduct business.

[JimmyGreaves]

The state's insistence that transit pay for itself at the farebox is holding things back at RIPTA.

They can't seriously believe that passenger revenue should be the only source of funding, can they? I can understand that the state would maybe want passenger revenue as a % of total funding to increase, but I would interpret Mr. Deller's statement as the state wants to end all public subsidies of transit which would be just stupid.

[Cotuit]

They can't seriously believe that passenger revenue should be the only source of funding, can they? I can understand that the state would maybe want passenger revenue as a % of total funding to increase, but I would interpret Mr. Deller's statement as the state wants to end all public subsidies of transit which would be just stupid.

Yes, it would be stupid, and I'm not sure that that is exactly what the state wants to see, but they aren't looking to give RIPTA any more money to expand beyond what we currently have, they're looking at the farebox as the source of revenue for expansion. And we all know from reading about RIPTAs annual financial crises that the state isn't all too keen on funding RIPTA to a level that would even maintain current service.

[urbie]

To me the first thing I think of with street cars (and a lot of other people who don't know much about them I'm sure) is that they will be slow trains that block traffic and for which you have to wait around in the elements like you would wait for a bus (as opposed to a subway, warm and dry).

I used to live on South St. in Jamaica Plain (what used to be the E line), moving in a few months after they stopped running the trolleys and switched to buses. Most of the locals said that the trolleys did, in fact, block traffic and make a lot of noise ("ding-ding" all the time) -- but the pro-transit types preferred them because they allowed you to get on and ride all the way into town (Park Street or wherever you were going), where with the buses, you had to switch at Copley Square.

There were plans to reinstate trolley service, and they got the tracks in shape, refurbished the Arborway station, and so on, but last I knew, they still had not put the trolleys back into service beyond Heath St. (or maybe a little further out), not all the way out to Arborway. When I lived there, I'd rather have taken the trolleys -- but then, the new Orange Line opened, which may have obviated some of the need for the E line altogether. Undoubtedly, politics played a role, too, although I never paid much attention to that....

Urb

[runawayjim]

I used to live on South St. in Jamaica Plain (what used to be the E line), moving in a few months after they stopped running the trolleys and switched to buses. Most of the locals said that the trolleys did, in fact, block traffic and make a lot of noise ("ding-ding" all the time) -- but the pro-transit types preferred them because they allowed you to get on and ride all the way into town (Park Street or wherever you were going), where with the buses, you had to switch at Copley Square.

There were plans to reinstate trolley service, and they got the tracks in shape, refurbished the Arborway station, and so on, but last I knew, they still had not put the trolleys back into service beyond Heath St. (or maybe a little further out), not all the way out to Arborway. When I lived there, I'd rather have taken the trolleys -- but then, the new Orange Line opened, which may have obviated some of the need for the E line altogether. Undoubtedly, politics played a role, too, although I never paid much attention to that....

Urb

the trolleys in philly aren't terribly slow. they suck to get behind because they take up the whole road when they stop and go (unlike buses which can pull over to the side to let people on and off). but they aren't much slower than automobile traffic (although i guess anything under 35 is too slow for some people). i like that the trolleys there go high speed when they go underground into center city. they're just as fast as the regular subway there at that point.

[Cotuit]

RIPTA has a new Statewide System Map online, and a Downtown Providence Map.

Ferry service from Providence Piers to Newport starts May 16.

[runawayjim]

RIPTA has a new Statewide System Map online, and a Downtown Providence Map.

Ferry service from Providence Piers to Newport starts May 16.

sweet, although i wish the one on the site (as in not the downloadable one) was bigger (that small box is too small).

[Garris]

RIPTA has a new Statewide System Map online...

At a quick glace, Miriam hospital is both misspelled and in the wrong place on the statewide map

- Garris

[Cotuit]

At a quick glace, Miriam hospital is both misspelled and in the wrong place on the statewide map

That's probably where the hospital was and how it was spelled 40 years ago, we're not natives so we're not privvy to these things.

[runawayjim]

At a quick glace, Miriam hospital is both misspelled and in the wrong place on the statewide map

- Garris

you mean the hospital isn't in the middle of the cemetary, or rather... in pawtucket?

[Recchia]

RIPTA will most likely start the next fiscal year with a balanced budget[Projo.com]

[gregw]

you mean the hospital isn't in the middle of the cemetary, or rather... in pawtucket?

It looks like they got Miriam mixed up with Butler Hospital which is right below the cemetary.

BTW, they're cladding the new Miriam building with these large brick-like panels that are similar to the ones they're using for Waterplace.

[JimmyGreaves]

RIPTA will most likely start the next fiscal year with a balanced budget[Projo.com]

This is certainly encouraging news despite what Robert Batting says. On the subject of fuel, other transportation companies have been able to lock in a fuel price for the year in order to prevent rising costs from increasing their operating expenses. The Port Authority of Allegheny County in Pittsburgh has done this as well as Southwest Airlines. Does anyone have any insight as to why RIPTA seems to be at the mercy of fuel price fluctuations when, based on the actions of other operators, they should be able to prevent this?

[Dan]

With the prediction of $4.00 per gallon gas, how can this not translate to stiff fare increases by next year?

[damus]

With the prediction of $4.00 per gallon gas, how can this not translate to stiff fare increases by next year?

Wouldn't increased passengers paying for RIPTA be able to offset this?

[runawayjim]

Wouldn't increased passengers paying for RIPTA be able to offset this?

not if there's no increased ridership... nevermind that if the buses get crowded, people will stop taking them.

[Mij]

not if there's no increased ridership... nevermind that if the buses get crowded, people will stop taking them.

I really think this whole thing of "Why don't more people use RIPTA?" comes down to RI is not a transit state. It really isnt. Why would the guy in Smithfield want to get up at 5:30 am, get ready for work, catch a bus into providence, then transfer to a bus that takes some were else, so he can get to work by 9:30? I know it's been said over and over but it's true ripta needs maybe 4 major hubs to service the state in a way were Our smithfield friend dosnt need to get up 4 hours early for work.

And if we get rid of the major hub of Kennedy Plaza we build more 110w's

[damus]

I really think this whole thing of "Why don't more people use RIPTA?" comes down to RI is not a transit state. It really isnt. Why would the guy in Smithfield want to get up at 5:30 am, get ready for work, catch a bus into providence, then transfer to a bus that takes some were else, so he can get to work by 9:30? I know it's been said over and over but it's true ripta needs maybe 4 major hubs to service the state in a way were Our smithfield friend dosnt need to get up 4 hours early for work.

And if we get rid of the major hub of Kennedy Plaza we build more 110w's

It's been said here before, but there's a stigma with buses that there isn't with fixed rail. Isn't Providence's metro one of the densest in the nation? On the weather map (I know this prob isn't the best way to figure it) every night on the news the CT river valley dotted with an off white (it blends with the brown "non-urban" land) while Providence is a bright white swath as white as New York's. Providence is surrounded by cities of 70,000+ in Cranston, Warwick, and Pawtucket. Sprawl really isn't as much of a problem in Providence as it is nationwide (again, already mentioned here). It should be a transit State, I dont know if making the buses more efficient is the answer.

[runawayjim]

It's been said here before, but there's a stigma with buses that there isn't with fixed rail. Isn't Providence's metro one of the densest in the nation? On the weather map (I know this prob isn't the best way to figure it) every night on the news the CT river valley dotted with an off white (it blends with the brown "non-urban" land) while Providence is a bright white swath as white as New York's. Providence is surrounded by cities of 70,000+ in Cranston, Warwick, and Pawtucket. Sprawl really isn't as much of a problem in Providence as it is nationwide (again, already mentioned here). It should be a transit State, I dont know if making the buses more efficient is the answer.

buses are for poor people and minorities. trains are for the wealthy and white.

is that the stigma you're talking about?

we need train service in RI. we need a train from westerly to providence that hits the major areas. shoreline east in CT should extend their service to westerly so you can switch trains there (since amtrak is the biggest rip off of any travel mechanisms). we need some sort of fixed rail local service within the city limits and extending out to some of the nearby cities (pawtucket, north providence, cranston, maybe even as far as warwick). there shoudl be no major hub for ripta in providence. in fact, ripta should have a different mindset in providence just linking the fixed rail, which will have a hub downtown. there should be hubs in pawtucket, newport, warwick, kingston (URI), and westerly. have trolley service in narragansett for the summer to bring people from the rental and summer homes to the restaurants so they can drink to their hearts desire.

[damus]

buses are for poor people and minorities. trains are for the wealthy and white.

is that the stigma you're talking about?

we need train service in RI. we need a train from westerly to providence that hits the major areas. shoreline east in CT should extend their service to westerly so you can switch trains there (since amtrak is the biggest rip off of any travel mechanisms). we need some sort of fixed rail local service within the city limits and extending out to some of the nearby cities (pawtucket, north providence, cranston, maybe even as far as warwick). there shoudl be no major hub for ripta in providence. in fact, ripta should have a different mindset in providence just linking the fixed rail, which will have a hub downtown. there should be hubs in pawtucket, newport, warwick, kingston (URI), and westerly. have trolley service in narragansett for the summer to bring people from the rental and summer homes to the restaurants so they can drink to their hearts desire.

Yeah.... that's the stigma that buses unfortunately have. The system would be more efficient with a rail system involved. In some cities, most notably from the ones I've been to is Montreal (my favorite city), the middle class rides the bus without thinking about it. They're always packed. If there was a decent commuter rail in PVD hopefully some people will ride the rail into town and take a feeder bus to work, and thus reducing the stigma.

[Recchia]

State funding for RIPTA has fallen in the past five years [Projo.com]

Interesting fact: cities and towns give NO funds to RIPTA. Most other transit authorities in the country get funding from cities and towns they serve along with the state.

[urbie]

State funding for RIPTA has fallen in the past five years [Projo.com]

Interesting fact: cities and towns give NO funds to RIPTA. Most other transit authorities in the country get funding from cities and towns they serve along with the state.

My old hometown of Wayland, MA has to pay the MBTA, despite the fact that the last commuter train left the station in, if I'm not mistaken, about 1970. The tracks are abandoned and paved over, but the town still has to pay. Go figure....

Urb

[Recchia]

My old hometown of Wayland, MA has to pay the MBTA, despite the fact that the last commuter train left the station in, if I'm not mistaken, about 1970. The tracks are abandoned and paved over, but the town still has to pay. Go figure....

Urb

Is there still rail service in a city/town nearby? Even cities and towns next to those that have commuter rail service have to pay MBTA annually.

[Frankie811]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus...arp_fare_hikes/

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/ri/providence/content...15.d6f3e58.html