I-49 One Step Closer to Being Realized

[cocothief]

Hey all! I am considering a job offer/relocation to Ft. Smith but have never been to the area. The reason I'm hitting this thread is because I google'd the Ft. Smtih to Texarkana drive and came up with this discussion. You guys seem to be just the ones I'm looking for to answer some of my questions.

My wife, kids, and I currently live in Central Indiana, but my in-laws live in the Houston area. One of the "pros" of considering a move to Ft. Smith is how much closer we'd be to my in-laws (if you can call that a "pro" ), but when I look on a map or research routes it doesn't seem like there is a particularly good route from Ft. Smith to Houston.

How big of a P.I.T.A. is the drive from Ft. Smith to Texarkana? We usually take US-59 S from Texarkana to Houston on our trip from Indiana to Texas, because I try to avoid I-10 at all costs I also like the drive through East Texas as it's much less stressful and prettier. However, the recommneded route from Ft. Smith to Houston is to go to OKC to Dallas to I-45 South to Houston. This seems WAY out of the way.

Also, one other question from this dummy not used to Arkansas geography...what exactly comprimises NWA area that you all speak of in this thread? I assume the acronym is for Northwest Arkansas...is that the Rogers / Fayetteville area? Like I said, this is one of the few areas of the country I've not been to so I'm not familiar. All of this info is somewhat trivial in considering a new job, but weighs into the equation none the less.

THanks in advance for the info!

You won't need to go to OKC to hit I-45.

From Fort Smith, you can take I-40 to Highway 69 south. Its mostly interstate grade through Oklahoma and turns into a full interstate at the Texas line (U.S 75). 75 becomes I-45 South in downtown Dallas.

The drive from Fort Smith to Texarkana isn't terrible, although there are some sections that are two lane and mountainous. I think both routes are probably comparable, considering that from Texarkana a portion of the drive to Houston isn't interstate quality.

NWA is considered primarily Benton and Washington counties in the Northwest Corner of Arkansas, more specifically the metro area stretching from Fayetteville in the south to Bentonville/Bella Vista at the Missouri line.

[Aporkalypse]

You won't need to go to OKC to hit I-45.

From Fort Smith, you can take I-40 to Highway 69 south. Its mostly interstate grade through Oklahoma and turns into a full interstate at the Texas line (U.S 75). 75 becomes I-45 South in downtown Dallas.

The drive from Fort Smith to Texarkana isn't terrible, although there are some sections that are two lane and mountainous. I think both routes are probably comparable, considering that from Texarkana a portion of the drive to Houston isn't interstate quality.

NWA is considered primarily Benton and Washington counties in the Northwest Corner of Arkansas, more specifically the metro area stretching from Fayetteville in the south to Bentonville/Bella Vista at the Missouri line.

You're right. That's the way I get between NWA and Dallas and it's almost all interstate-quality with only a couple of short two-lane stretches. I can get to NWA almost as fast as I can get to Little Rock on I-30.

[masons_dad1]

You're right. That's the way I get between NWA and Dallas and it's almost all interstate-quality with only a couple of short two-lane stretches. I can get to NWA almost as fast as I can get to Little Rock on I-30.

I never considered that route to Dallas, since I always take I-40 west to OKC then I-35 south into Dallas. It takes roughly 5-6 hours depending on how many stops I make. How much time does the Texarkana route to Dallas take, adjusted to going the speed limit?

[Aporkalypse]

I never considered that route to Dallas, since I always take I-40 west to OKC then I-35 south into Dallas. It takes roughly 5-6 hours depending on how many stops I make. How much time does the Texarkana route to Dallas take, adjusted to going the speed limit?

It takes me 4 1/2, the same time it takes me to get to LR on I-30. That's going about 10 miles over the limit, though. I know it's much quicker than going through OKC, though. That adds at least an hour to the trip even if there's no OKC traffic.

Plus, that route becomes the Central Expressway through North Dallas and Plano to downtown, which makes it easier to get to most of the destinations you would want to go to directly.

[masons_dad1]

It takes me 4 1/2, the same time it takes me to get to LR on I-30. That's going about 10 miles over the limit, though. I know it's much quicker than going through OKC, though. That adds at least an hour to the trip even if there's no OKC traffic.

Plus, that route becomes the Central Expressway through North Dallas and Plano to downtown, which makes it easier to get to most of the destinations you would want to go to directly.

Thanks. I may have to try that route if my brother doesn't come up here for the holidays.

[Aporkalypse]

Thanks. I may have to try that route if my brother doesn't come up here for the holidays.

Didn't you say your brother lived in Denton?

The only advantage to going I-35 is that it goes straight to Denton. If you're going to Denton instead of Dallas you might not save that much time but it shouldn't be any worse. Maybe it'll shave off a half hour. You'll need to get off of Central Expressway somewhere up around McKinney to get to Denton that way. You can take 121 from McKinney to Lewisville and you'll come out about 10 miles south of Denton.

[masons_dad1]

Didn't you say your brother lived in Denton?

The only advantage to going I-35 is that it goes straight to Denton. If you're going to Denton instead of Dallas you might not save that much time but it shouldn't be any worse. Maybe it'll shave off a half hour. You'll need to get off of Central Expressway somewhere up around McKinney to get to Denton that way. You can take 121 from McKinney to Lewisville and you'll come out about 10 miles south of Denton.

I forgot my brother moved to Lewisville recently, so I could use those directions to Lewisville. If it saves an hour it would be worth it and I do like the drive in East Texas better than through Oklahoma.

[KJW]

The first BV bypass meeting was last night, and here's an article on it.

One thing I feel foolish for not having considered...I wonder how much XNA's growth is being hindered by the current road system in place around it? However, it's not like that highway is a stranger to truck traffic with the W-M distribution center nearby...

[itk]

The first BV bypass meeting was last night, and here's an article on it.

One thing I feel foolish for not having considered...I wonder how much XNA's growth is being hindered by the current road system in place around it? However, it's not like that highway is a stranger to truck traffic with the W-M distribution center nearby...

Hm, I don't see how it is a significant factor. Is someone going to avoid XNA if they need to fly into or out of NWA just because it's hard to find and get to? I wouldn't think so. But obviously XNA doesn't think so, otherwise they wouldn't want to spend so much money building their own road from the future 412 bypass into their entrance.

[hogwash]

OK itk, I've got a question for you. I've been looking at what I assume are preliminary designs or at least placement of the Bella Vista Bypass that are published on the Bentonville GIS. I'm noticing all the exits are pretty much classic diamond style much like what you see up and down I-540. Why is that? It just seems like a lack of forethought IF those actually get built. I've noticed they are incredibly prevalent even on projects built in higher traffic areas like the 270 bypass in Hot Springs. They've had to redesign the Central Ave. exit because the design causes so many traffic backups. The Wedington exit in Fayetteville is similar, but luckily it has an ITS function tied into the lights. What would it take to get a Single point interchange built or maybe a cloverleaf or even a partial cloverleaf?

[Mith242]

Good point. Would a single point interchange be more expensive to build? That's the only reason offhand I could see if not going that route. Once again itk should be able to explain it all better than any of the rest of us.

[itk]

OK itk, I've got a question for you. I've been looking at what I assume are preliminary designs or at least placement of the Bella Vista Bypass that are published on the Bentonville GIS. I'm noticing all the exits are pretty much classic diamond style much like what you see up and down I-540. Why is that? It just seems like a lack of forethought IF those actually get built. I've noticed they are incredibly prevalent even on projects built in higher traffic areas like the 270 bypass in Hot Springs. They've had to redesign the Central Ave. exit because the design causes so many traffic backups. The Wedington exit in Fayetteville is similar, but luckily it has an ITS function tied into the lights. What would it take to get a Single point interchange built or maybe a cloverleaf or even a partial cloverleaf?

Cloverleafs and SPUIs are more expensive to build than traditional diamonds. Check out Google Earth and look at other recently built freeways around the country. I bet they almost all have diamonds. Only interchanges with other major highways or growing major urban or suburban areas will a DOT build a SPUI.

Cloverleafs are a somewhat outdated design for interchanges with surface streets. Mostly, I think, because of not only operational problems but because they aren't ped/bike friendly. They are more expensive because they may require more structure, earthwork, pavement, and ROW.

The reason SPUIs are more expensive typically is because of the structure, whether as an overpass or underpass. It's sort of hard to explain in words, but if you check out Google Earth you may see why. If the cross street is over the freeway, than typically a box structure is constructed, which has to be particularly wide to accomodate the angles of the ramps. If the cross street is under, than the freeway bridge spans typically have to be longer (again because of the angles of the ramps and probably other reasons). But they typically don't need as much ROW.

As far as the line shown on Benvontville GIS website, last I checked they were showing the old alignment (I can't get it to work on my pc right now). The new alignment and details of the Bypass will eventually be on AHTD's website, but right now the details are being hammered out.

I'm not familiar with Central Ave's interchange. But, SPUIs aren't always warranted-- even if traffic gets really high, than a diamond can still work fine-- that's what the Perry Rd interchange will be. Of course, it will have plenty of lanes everywhere.

I think that when Arkansas gets its first two SPUIs (one in Bella Vista Bypass/Hwy 71, and one at I-540/Hwy 102/62 in Bentonville... those will probably be the first ones), if they work at well like they should, AHTD will probably be more comfortable enough to use them at other locations. I personally don't have a preference between diamonds and SPUIs-- they both have advantages and disadvantages-- but in major urban areas SPUIs are usually the smart way to go these days. I think the diamonds on the Bypass will be fine. (SPUIs are pretty cool though.)

[Mith242]

Very good info and details itk. I'm disappointed one of the first SPUI won't be here in Fayetteville. I remember hearing a couple of our exits mentioned in particular in that I-540 study.

[hogwash]

Thanks, what he said

[slyder1]

Ok can someone tell me what a SPUI is? Is it like a directional flyover?

[mcheiss]

Ok can someone tell me what a SPUI is? Is it like a directional flyover?

Single Point Urban Interchange.

[dimebag1980]

Single Point Urban Interchange.

I was wondering as well. That's just like I-49 through Shreveport, there are a few of those. The only exception being that the freeway runs above it rather than below. It feels like a tunnel under the freeway and is all concrete and block. Very inner-city, I love it.

Man I can't wait for I-49 to be finished. I wonder how long the drive from Shreveport-NWA would take once that's finished.

[slyder1]

Single Point Urban Interchange.

that looks a little confusing to say the least. I hope their will be some stoplights, from what I gather from that image thats the only way it would work.

Wow I am really stupid...Springfield has one of these interchanges at Sunshine Street and Hwy. 65.

[KJW]

that looks a little confusing to say the least. I hope their will be some stoplights, from what I gather from that image thats the only way it would work.

Wow I am really stupid...Springfield has one of these interchanges at Sunshine Street and Hwy. 65.

Slyder, the strange thing is that Springfield's is flipped vertically (a little Photoshop lingo, there) from the one pictured. The main highway (65) runs above the Sunshine St. interchange where on this drawing the main highway runs underneath the interchange.

[itk]

Just thought I'd throw this in here, since I was pesimistic earlier about federal funding for highways: http://www.highways.org/Press_Releases/release1-30-07.htm

The House and Senate ploughed through their budget bills, and agreed to fully appropriate fhwa funds for this fiscal year. Which is of course good news for NWA. However, Congress still needs to figure out a long-term solution.

-------

I think I also forgot to mention something about the BV Bypass-- because it is going to be primarily backedby tolls, because construction costs keep going up, and because of the uncertainty of getting future federal funds for highways, AHTD is working especially hard to trim costs where they can on this project to make it a reality. Just thought I'd mention that. So if you don't see a lot of lanes or big interchanges or SPUIs or whatever, on this project or others, it's not because of lack of foresight (though that can happen, in hindsight). It's 99% of the time because there isn't enough money to do everything that everybody wants (or needs).

[slyder1]

Slyder, the strange thing is that Springfield's is flipped vertically (a little Photoshop lingo, there) from the one pictured. The main highway (65) runs above the Sunshine St. interchange where on this drawing the main highway runs underneath the interchange.

Yeah, the highway is overhead. I believe MODOT is planning two more of these SPUI's in Springfield, one at the much needed Kansas Expy. and I-44 interchange and another at National and James River Frwy. I think they actually work pretty well, I can't recall that many problems over at the Sunshine and 65 one.

[hogwash]

So if you don't see a lot of lanes or big interchanges or SPUIs or whatever, on this project or others, it's not because of lack of foresight (though that can happen, in hindsight). It's 99% of the time because there isn't enough money to do everything that everybody wants (or needs).

That makes a lot of sense. Its time for a regional mobile authority!!!

[Mith242]

Just thought I'd throw this in here, since I was pesimistic earlier about federal funding for highways: http://www.highways.org/Press_Releases/release1-30-07.htm

The House and Senate ploughed through their budget bills, and agreed to fully appropriate fhwa funds for this fiscal year. Which is of course good news for NWA. However, Congress still needs to figure out a long-term solution.

-------

I think I also forgot to mention something about the BV Bypass-- because it is going to be primarily backedby tolls, because construction costs keep going up, and because of the uncertainty of getting future federal funds for highways, AHTD is working especially hard to trim costs where they can on this project to make it a reality. Just thought I'd mention that. So if you don't see a lot of lanes or big interchanges or SPUIs or whatever, on this project or others, it's not because of lack of foresight (though that can happen, in hindsight). It's 99% of the time because there isn't enough money to do everything that everybody wants (or needs).

Thanks for pointing that out itk.

[2kids]

Any guesses as to when this road will affect the Mena area? 5, 10,15 years?

[hogwash]

Here's another one I'm interested in, a slimmed down diamond with a roundabout. I would love to see one of those somewhere. I wonder how folks would respond. I know my parents would be completely lost...