An Analysis of the Richmond Skyline

[123fakestreet]

Everyone here wants taller buildings downtown, I was curious for myself so may as well share it here: a look at Richmond's tallest buildings. 

For reference I'm using this wiki page (which may be a bit dated) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Richmond,_Virginia and including only occupiable structures 200 feet or more.  There are 3 categories, government, business, and residential, with some sub categories, buildings are listed in order of height.

• Business
  • Hotel
    • Omni 18 floors
    • Marriot  18 floors
    • 700 E Main St 17 floors
    • Crown Plaza 16 floors
  • Bank
    • Suntrust 26 floors
    • BOA Center 26 floors
  • Law Firm
    • Williams Mullen Center 15 floors
    • Gateway Plaza 18 floors
  • Major HQ
    • Costar 26 floors (uncompleted)
    • Dominion 20 floors
  • Other
    • River Front East 20 floors
    • Riverfront West 20 floors
    • Main St Centre 23 floors
    • Two James Center 21 floors
    • One James Center 21 floors
    • Seventh & Franklin 18 floors
    • 700 E Main St 17 floors
• Residential
  • Apartments
    • 8th & Main Building 20 floors
    • Central National Bank 22 floors
    • First National Bank 19 floors
    • Wytestone Plaza 18 floors (uncompleted conversion)
    • Monroe Park Towers 18 floors
    • Towers on Franklin 17 floors
    • Hotel John Marshall 15 floors
    • 2000 Riverside Apartments 15 floors
  • Condos
    • Vistas on the James 18 floors
    • Riverside on the James 15 floors
• Government
  • Federal
    • Federal Reserve Building 26 floors
  • State:
    • James Monroe Building  29 floors
    • One Capital Square 23 floors
    • John Tyler Building 11 floors
    • James Madison Building 15 floors
    • Thomas Jefferson Building 15 floors
  • City
    • New City Hall 19 floors
  • VCU
    • Rhoades Hall 18 floors
    • Brandt Hall 17 floors
    • West Hospital 17 floors

 

Some of the apartments/condos may not be accurate, and I wasn't sure who the primary tenant on some of the "other" businesses are anymore, so looking for corrections from the community.  Feel free to draw your own conclusions on what any of this means, just was curious how it broke down.

[eandslee]

What about height (in feet)?  That is, height from the ground, not “CoStar feet” (measuring from sea level).  I think this is important to distinguish because some buildings have taller floor plates than others and just because a tower is 29 stories, doesn’t necessarily make it taller than, say, a 20-story tower if the 20-story tower has taller floor plates.  

Edited October 18, 2023 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

52 minutes ago, eandslee said:

What about height (in feet)?  That is, height from the ground, not “CoStar feet” (measuring from sea level).  I think this is important to distinguish because some buildings have taller floor plates than others and just because a tower is 29 stories, doesn’t necessarily make it taller than, say, a 20-story tower if the 20-story tower has taller floor plates.  

Plus overall building height also includes mechanical boxes (if any) that are on top of the structure as well as "crowns". The Dominion tower is a classic RVA example of a building, of which the crown is significantly higher than the top floor. CoStar's new tower might as well (I'm not sure where the 26th floor falls out relative to the top of the building).

Most urbanologists/urbanists assess building height by meters or feet (and yes, @eandsleethat would be normal/standard feet, not CoStar Feet^TM.)

[Icetera]

2 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

Everyone here wants taller buildings downtown, I was curious for myself so may as well share it here: a look at Richmond's tallest buildings. 

For reference I'm using this wiki page (which may be a bit dated) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Richmond,_Virginia and including only occupiable structures 200 feet or more.  There are 3 categories, government, business, and residential, with some sub categories, buildings are listed in order of height.

• Business
  • Hotel
    • Omni 18 floors
    • Marriot  18 floors
    • 700 E Main St 17 floors
    • Crown Plaza 16 floors
  • Bank
    • Suntrust 26 floors
    • BOA Center 26 floors
  • Law Firm
    • Williams Mullen Center 15 floors
    • Gateway Plaza 18 floors
  • Major HQ
    • Costar 26 floors (uncompleted)
    • Dominion 20 floors
  • Other
    • River Front East 20 floors
    • Riverfront West 20 floors
    • Main St Centre 23 floors
    • Two James Center 21 floors
    • One James Center 21 floors
    • Seventh & Franklin 18 floors
    • 700 E Main St 17 floors
• Residential
  • Apartments
    • 8th & Main Building 20 floors
    • Central National Bank 22 floors
    • First National Bank 19 floors
    • Wytestone Plaza 18 floors (uncompleted conversion)
    • Monroe Park Towers 18 floors
    • Towers on Franklin 17 floors
    • Hotel John Marshall 15 floors
    • 2000 Riverside Apartments 15 floors
  • Condos
    • Vistas on the James 18 floors
    • Riverside on the James 15 floors
• Government
  • Federal
    • Federal Reserve Building 26 floors
  • State:
    • James Monroe Building  29 floors
    • One Capital Square 23 floors
    • John Tyler Building 11 floors
    • James Madison Building 15 floors
    • Thomas Jefferson Building 15 floors
  • City
    • New City Hall 19 floors
  • VCU
    • Rhoades Hall 18 floors
    • Brandt Hall 17 floors
    • West Hospital 17 floors

 

Some of the apartments/condos may not be accurate, and I wasn't sure who the primary tenant on some of the "other" businesses are anymore, so looking for corrections from the community.  Feel free to draw your own conclusions on what any of this means, just was curious how it broke down.

I used to keep up the Wiki, but fighting every update got irritating, so I gave up.  I do still keep a personal spreadsheet (including CoStar Feet^TM) going that I really should more into Google Sheets.  For now, I hope this helps (definitely see some discrepancies in building usage).

[I miss RVA]

4 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I used to keep up the Wiki, but fighting every update got irritating, so I gave up.  I do still keep a personal spreadsheet (including CoStar Feet^TM) going that I really should more into Google Sheets.  For now, I hope this helps (definitely see some discrepancies in building usage).

I love this spreadsheet - it's definitely been our go-to repository to inventory RVA's high-rises. For your continuing work in maintaining this as our de-facto high-rise database, some silver hardware is definitely warranted (presented below - Mazal Tov!! ).

Also - IF - and we all know that "if" is probably the "biggest" word in the entire English language - IF the city chooses RCDP and we get the 40-story, 450-foot-tall Gateway hotel - it's almost mindblowing to consider that its skyline prominence would rise more than 100 feet higher than the Monroe building, which means that not only would this hotel LEGITIMATELY be the city's tallest building, it will also VISUALLY be the city's tallest and will be tantamount to a signature building on our skyline.

Wow ... all the more reason we need the city to step up to the plate and choose RCDP and snag this epic hotel for downtown.

[ancientcarpenter]

17 hours ago, Icetera said:

I used to keep up the Wiki, but fighting every update got irritating, so I gave up.  I do still keep a personal spreadsheet (including CoStar Feet^TM) going that I really should more into Google Sheets.  For now, I hope this helps (definitely see some discrepancies in building usage).

Wow, this is great. I wonder if there are some state agencies that would love to review your sheet.

[Shakman]

Gateway Hotel?   Has the proposal that we are drooling over been selected for the Coliseum site?

[I miss RVA]

22 minutes ago, Shakman said:

Gateway Hotel?   Has the proposal that we are drooling over been selected for the Coliseum site?

Unfortunately, not yet. I do wish they'd get this moving.

[Shakman]

22 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Unfortunately, not yet. I do wish they'd get this moving.

Then I suggest removing "Gateway Hotel" from that list since it's not officially proposed.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Shakman

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, Shakman said:

Then I suggest removing "Gateway Hotel" from that list since it's not officially proposed.

Well, it’s still “proposed,” it’s  just not been formally selected yet (there are at least two really tall proposals in two of the three submitted proposals…if memory serves).  I think it’s okay to keep on the “proposed” list.

[I miss RVA]

3 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Well, it’s still “proposed,” it’s  just not been formally selected yet (there are at least two really tall proposals in two of the three submitted proposals…if memory serves).  I think it’s okay to keep on the “proposed” list.

Agreed. It's technically on the table. BTW - there are four finalists whose proposals are still being weighed. Believe me, I wish it was only those two with the really tall hotel in the mix. I honestly believe that were it up to the esteemed Ms. Pechin, those two (with the tall hotels) would be the only proposals in the running. If memory serves, she was a BIG advocate for height, tall buildings, removing the height restrictions, etc. She was the one who was the strongest proponent of "shoot for the moon" when it came to City Center. (Diamond District as well)

Edited October 20, 2023 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

1 minute ago, I miss RVA said:

Agreed. It's technically on the table. BTW - there are four finalists whose proposals are still being weighed. Believe me, I wish it was only those two with the really tall hotel in the mix.

I stand corrected on the number of proposals. Thanks @I miss RVA!

[I miss RVA]

2 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I stand corrected on the number of proposals. Thanks @I miss RVA!

If the city isn't going to select a winner just yet - I hope that at least shave off the two without the really tall hotel. RCDP and Gateway are the two that really should be the finalists for this redevelopment, IMNSHO.

[Flood Zone]

I think proposed is correct-ish. It's more like potentially proposed* but maybe that's being hypertechnical.

*At this point, until it's part of the winning bid, it's kind of in the ethereal realm like that tall spiral tower proposed by that reclusive architect whose name I am forgetting; but I know this is less pie-in-the-sky, of course.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Flood Zone said:

I think proposed is correct-ish. It's more like potentially proposed* but maybe that's being hypertechnical.

*At this point, until it's part of the winning bid, it's kind of in the ethereal realm like that tall spiral tower proposed by that reclusive architect whose name I am forgetting; but I know this is less pie-in-the-sky, of course.

You're thinking of the legendary Haigh Jamgochian.

Edited October 20, 2023 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:50 PM, I miss RVA said:

You're thinking of the legendary Haigh Jamgochian.

I love that first photo of Haigh Jamgochian from the 1960s - note the old Highway Department (now VDOT) headquarters building under construction (I worked a temp job in that building once) -- and notice the utter lack of high-rises downtown. The old F&M building at 9th and Main still had the overhanging cornice atop the building (that would be replaced in the '60s around the time the Fidelity Building was constructed across the street). Of the "new" 1960s construction that began proliferating the Financial District - only the Ross Building at 8th and Main (which is now being converted into apartments) had been built. Funny how the old F&M and Mutual buildings in the heart of the legacy Financial District have all been flipped to residential.

[Shakman]

Those proposed highrises remind me of CD storage towers.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Shakman said:

Those proposed highrises remind me of CD storage towers.

Very true!

Yeah - his mindset was a very "futuristic" design - certainly futuristic for the period. Had all of the buildings he proposed be constructed downtown come to pass, he would have essentially turned a section of downtown RVA into Jetsonville.

I certainly wouldn't have objected - particularly since he was a big advocate for height.

[KJHburg]

On 10/18/2023 at 2:35 PM, I miss RVA said:

Plus overall building height also includes mechanical boxes (if any) that are on top of the structure as well as "crowns". The Dominion tower is a classic RVA example of a building, of which the crown is significantly higher than the top floor. CoStar's new tower might as well (I'm not sure where the 26th floor falls out relative to the top of the building).

Most urbanologists/urbanists assess building height by meters or feet (and yes, @eandsleethat would be normal/standard feet, not CoStar Feet^TM.)

everytime I read you say CoStar Feet I just bust out laughing.  It is too funny!   From the DC area this little story about someone using CoStar feet i.e. feet above sea level to try to boost their buildings where the tallest in the DC metro. 

from the Washington Biz Journal a few weeks ago:

""There have been other squabbles about Greater Washington’s tallest building. Back in 2014, Monday Properties told my colleague Michael Neibauer that its 1812 N. Moore St. in Rosslyn was 470-feet tall. Monday made the claim as Capital One was receiving approvals for its new headquarters that would include the 470-foot tower. But Monday was making the claim because its building rose to 470 feet above sea level — but building height is measured from the ground. 1812 N. Moore is officially 390-feet tall, while Central Place, also in Rosslyn, today measures a single foot taller.

Central Place, developed by what was then The JBG Cos., and 1812 N. Moore had their own battle for the region’s tallest building — what former Washington Business Journal reporter Melissa Castro dubbed "the war of 1812" — as they were being marketed back in 2008.""

So CoStar feet seems to be used only one place on the planet between Washington DC and Richmond.   The Capital One Tower is the tallest in  the DC region at 470 feet ABOVE THE GROUND. 

this was all in article about the new tallest residential building in the DC area in Reston 

""That distinction, however, ever-so-briefly faced a challenge this month, when Bethesda’s Clark Construction topped out on Skymark Reston Town Center. The 40-story high-rise will include 464 residential units on top of a four-story base that will include ground-floor retail, 44 loft-style units and 80,000 square feet of office space. A Clark representative told me Oct. 20 the building would stretch to 470 feet, equal to that of Capital One Tower.

But a week later, the Clark representative said that figure was the product of a “miscommunication,” and that Skymark will reach 440 feet — 424 feet to its roof, plus 16 feet of roof elevation.""

Is this the Rich Men North of Richmond some sing about??

Edited November 9, 2023 by KJHburg

[Flood Zone]

"CoStar feet" has this quaint sort of harmless corporate dishonesty that harkens back to advertising's "mere puffery."

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Central Place, developed by what was then The JBG Cos., and 1812 N. Moore had their own battle for the region’s tallest building — what former Washington Business Journal reporter Melissa Castro dubbed "the war of 1812"

LOL. Kudos to Melissa Castro.

"The war of 1812" is the kind of wordplay Tony Kornheiser would work into a column back when he did actual writing.

[plain]

16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 

....So CoStar feet seems to be used only one place on the planet between Washington DC and Richmond.   The Capital One Tower is the tallest in the commonwealth and the DC region at 470 feet ABOVE THE GROUND. 

this was all in article about the new tallest residential building in the DC area in Reston 

""That distinction, however, ever-so-briefly faced a challenge this month, when Bethesda’s Clark Construction topped out on Skymark Reston Town Center. The 40-story high-rise will include 464 residential units on top of a four-story base that will include ground-floor retail, 44 loft-style units and 80,000 square feet of office space. A Clark representative told me Oct. 20 the building would stretch to 470 feet, equal to that of Capital One Tower.....

The Capital One Tower may be the tallest building in the DC area, but the Westin Virginia Beach Town Center is still the tallest in the Commonwealth.

[KJHburg]

57 minutes ago, plain said:

The Capital One Tower may be the tallest building in the DC area, but the Westin Virginia Beach Town Center is still the tallest in the Commonwealth.

thats right I knew that.