Diamond Area / Hermitage Rd Corridor / Ownby District

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, RVABizSenseMike said:

Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it. 

VERY much deserved, Mike. Best damn reporting I've seen in a long time. You really do deserve a VPA award for this coverage.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Flood Zone said:

(1) The problem isn't really market size, even when considered as a combination with Hampton Roads. I mean, it is market size, but the more immediate death knell would be TV rights. The O's and the Nats are STILL litigating over the latter's junior share of MASN money that was due over a decade ago.  (We're part of that TV rights area, and so is Hampton Roads, and so is Raleigh.) MLB wouldn't touch that and further divide it for a long time, at least until the O's can't maintain MASN any longer. The age of regional sports network money is dying, which is why baseball has gone all-in on the sports book money.

I think we'll eventually see an NBA team in Virginia Beach, assuming an area is over built there, of course. Outside shot of an NFL team one day. I'd support the former, and, until hearing news that Snyder has reached an agreement to sell today, I would've considered the latter.

(2) SLC's bid would be a longshot. And they're in a CSA that totals 2.7 million, 22nd in the country. Not great, but not terrible; it wouldn't be the worst TV market in MLB. Above caveat about RSNs applies. Nashville and Portland are stronger expansion candidates, with years of lobbying at the local and state levels.

Agreed on all fronts. Well said.

And I'm beyond grateful Snyder & the Philly ownership group reached an agreement in principle today for the sale of the club. I've been a fan of that team since 1970, and the past quarter century (with the team under his ownership) have been 24 years of pure hell as a fan of that club. Thank God it's coming to an end.

Oh - re: Portland and Nashville - & MLB - Portland, most definitely. I'd also add Vegas into the mix. They've got just about everything MLB would want aside from a first-pitch-ready to-MLB-specs ballpark - and I'm sure it would be almost turnkey to get a ballpark built in Sin City in a timely fashion. No idea of Allegiant could be used temporarily while a ballpark is being built - not sure how they'd wedge a baseball diamond into that field configuration or what the dimensions would be. Either way, I totally see Vegas landing a club.

Edited April 13, 2023 by I miss RVA

[asies]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:28 PM, I miss RVA said:

Posting this just to point out how very different mindsets can be in terms of whether or not a city/metro is progressive/forward thinking and bullish about themselves. Sports Illustrated (SI.com) is reporting that Salt Lake City has entered into the conversation for possible MLB expansion. Why is that pertinent to Richmond? Of any city/metro in this country that's comparable in terms of pure size (and Richmond has the edge in this - at least for now) - it's Salt Lake City. To wit:

Salt Lake MSA estimated 2022 population - 1.192,000 

Richmond MSA estimated population (by at least one estimate) - 1.339,000

Yes - I realize as @wrldcoupe4has said many times it comes down to the old real estate mantra of "location, location, location."  RVA is too damn close to Washington-Baltimore, whereas Salt Lake City is pretty much the only game in town in their region. By a wide margin. However, RVA COULD THEORETICALLY pull from the additional 1.8 million in Hampton Roads - so our combined markets would total 3.1 million.

I'm just finding it interesting that a market that's smaller that Richmond is bullish and forward-thinking enough to actually think they have a legit shot at an MLB franchise. There's a rather impressive list of considerably larger markets ahead of them on the list that have a much better chance at landing a club. But kudos to SLC for even trying - while we're still trying to figure out how to build a bloody minor-league ballpark for a AA-level team.

No idea if this is behind a pay wall or not - I subscribe so I'm able to read it.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/04/13/salt-lake-city-reportedly-wants-mlb-expansion-team?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_6605105

While Salt Lake and Richmond have a similar metro size, Salt Lake is very unique as its CSA is 2.7 million and consists of three metro areas that are so close to together and intertwined that they share the same public transit network. Ogden and Provo, the two major cities of the two adjacent metro areas that make up the CSA (called the Wasatch Front), are both about 30-40 miles from Salt Lake City proper. That is why Salt Lake can support NBA and MLS teams and has an extensive rail network with commuter and light rail. In other words, you have probably close to 2.5 million people that live within 30 miles of downtown Salt Lake.

Edited April 14, 2023 by asies

[I miss RVA]

22 minutes ago, asies said:

While Salt Lake and Richmond have a similar metro size, Salt Lake is very unique as its CSA is 2.7 million and consists of three metro areas that are so close to together and intertwined that they share the same public transit network. Ogden and Provo, the two major cities of the two adjacent metro areas that make up the CSA (called the Wasatch Front), are both about 30-40 miles from Salt Lake City proper. That is why Salt Lake can support NBA and MLS teams and has an extensive rail network with commuter and light rail.

If metro RVA and Hampton Roads were closer together and "linked" into an expansive CSA, the combined population would be about 3.2 million. Man - Richmond is "too close" to Hampton Roads at times - and the two metros are too far apart at others. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Literally - RVA can't win either way.

Regardless, the point I was focusing on was/is the forward-thinking and progressive mindset of SLC - throwing their hat into the ring even though they're a long shot still says a lot about them in a very positive way. MEANWHILE - we can't seem to get an effing AA-level ballpark off the ground, much less built. We already lost our AAA baseball club as a result - and are at least at some level of risk of losing the AA franchise as well.

If the Squirrels walk - what's next? An A-league team? Rookie league?

The point is - SLC is moving FORWARD while we seem to be doing nothing but spinning our wheels and sliding backwards. The mindsets are totally different between the two cities/regions. I suppose the additional 1.6 million population in the linked metros gives SLC more to work with. Still... no reason we can't be as forward thinking on these things - and take enough action to actually get things done.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by I miss RVA

[wrldcoupe4]

We’re not sliding backwards. Richmond is more forward today than it has been for decades. I think it’s a little unfair to draw that conclusion by conflating the direction of the city and region with decisions that determine where major league sports expand or not taking into account legal constructs that clearly have an impact on Virginia cities like the independent city concept, or the fact that we are a Dillon rule state. Also not to overly generalize here, but Richmond has a much longer and more complicated history, while Salt Lake City’s broader region is comparatively much more homogenous. Also, Salt Lake has had major league sports teams for decades.

Edited April 14, 2023 by wrldcoupe4

[Flood Zone]

@wrldcoupe4Agreed on all points. This place kinda sucked to grow up in … well, however many years ago that was.  Now, it’s pretty awesome.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

We’re not sliding backwards. Richmond is more forward today than it has been for decades.

I think it’s a little unfair to draw that conclusion by conflating the direction of the city and region with decisions that determine where major league sports expand or not taking into account legal constructs that clearly have an impact on Virginia cities like the independent city concept, or the fact that we are a Dillon rule state.

Also not to overly generalize here, but Richmond has a much longer and more complicated history, while Salt Lake City’s broader region is comparatively much more homogenous. Also, Salt Lake has had major league sports teams for decades.

@wrldcoupe4-- edited this for more clarity. Was uber brief earlier as I had an instacart grocery order arriving while I was responding.

1.) More progressive: Yes... indeed it is. Light years ahead of where it was 50, 40, 30 and even 20 years ago.

Just curious, my friend - did you grow up in Richmond? If not, how long have you been in Richmond? Asking out of curiosity.

2.) Independent city status: Baltimore and St. Louis are cities that operate under the independent city paradigm. While they both have been in decline in recent decades, they both grew to be a considerable size, as have their metro areas. Dillon rule hurts us as much as the independent city model -- so it's a double whammy.

3.) SLC & RVA are different: True - different histories. Different pasts do lead to different presents and different futures. Still - talk to me about all of this if/when we at least get a AA-ballpark built. I honestly don't think that's (that we build the ballpark already) too much to ask. We've had HOW long to get this done since the topic of replacing the Diamond first arose? And STILL nothing?

ALSO - I never said the region (or even the city itself, for that matter) is sliding backwards. What I DID say is that it SEEMS LIKE all we do is spin our wheels and slide backwards - on thing like this (getting a ballpark built). You'll forgive me if my cynicism rears its ugly head now and then. I've seen this movie before. I've seen failure after failure after failure over the past 50 years on things that other cities simply knuckle down and do - and get right when they do them. I keep thinking - and hoping - that, yeah - Richmond IS a lot more progressive now than she was way back when - or even a decade or two ago when she began emerging from her cocoon. And I keep thinking that maybe just once... maybe THIS time... it'll be different. And every single time... it's the same thing.

Forgive me - but it gets frustrating.

Edited April 14, 2023 by I miss RVA

[wrldcoupe4]

16 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

@wrldcoupe4Agreed on all points. This place kinda sucked to grow up in … well, however many years ago that was.  Now, it’s pretty awesome.

Totally agree 

[I miss RVA]

41 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

@wrldcoupe4Agreed on all points. This place kinda sucked to grow up in … well, however many years ago that was.  Now, it’s pretty awesome.

Totally agree with you on both points. The RVA of today IS pretty damn awesome. And I believe that the best it yet to come. Can't wait to see where things are in 2030 -- or by the 2037 tri-centennial.

How far back to you go?

Edited April 14, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Flood Zone]

@I miss RVAMid-70s

[I miss RVA]

8 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

@I miss RVAMid-70s

Cool! You were born in the mid-70s? Or you remember Richmond in the mid-70s?

 

[Flood Zone]

19 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Cool! You were born in the mid-70s? Or you remember Richmond in the mid-70s?

 

Born. Memories go from late 70s.

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, Flood Zone said:

Born. Memories go from late 70s.

Coolness. I was born in '62 and actually remember the late '60s pretty clearly. It ties in to @wrldcoupe4's point (above) about RVA being more progressive now than it has been in decades. He's right about that. The last time this city was ANYWHERE near as progressive/forward thinking as it is today (and it's not even close - today blows all other times out of the water) was 1970 when Tom Bliley was mayor. 

[Downtowner]

On 4/14/2023 at 4:06 PM, I miss RVA said:

If metro RVA and Hampton Roads were closer together and "linked" into an expansive CSA, the combined population would be about 3.2 million. Man - Richmond is "too close" to Hampton Roads at times - and the two metros are too far apart at others. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Literally - RVA can't win either way.

Regardless, the point I was focusing on was/is the forward-thinking and progressive mindset of SLC - throwing their hat into the ring even though they're a long shot still says a lot about them in a very positive way. MEANWHILE - we can't seem to get an effing AA-level ballpark off the ground, much less built. We already lost our AAA baseball club as a result - and are at least at some level of risk of losing the AA franchise as well.

If the Squirrels walk - what's next? An A-league team? Rookie league?

The point is - SLC is moving FORWARD while we seem to be doing nothing but spinning our wheels and sliding backwards. The mindsets are totally different between the two cities/regions. I suppose the additional 1.6 million population in the linked metros gives SLC more to work with. Still... no reason we can't be as forward thinking on these things - and take enough action to actually get things done.

 

I have read if the squirrels leave that mlb will put a  ban on us from being able to lure another milb team. How long that ban is I don’t know. But I have heard that is what will happen that mlb will put a ban on us. Best case would be  independent league ball or that dream league mlb wants to put for players who are not part of a mlb affiliated team. In other words it’s for players who played low a or rookie league ball. So the repercussions of this will be catastrophic for us to lure any team if we let the squirrels leave. 

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, Downtowner said:

I have read if the squirrels leave that mlb will put a  ban on us from being able to lure another milb team. How long that ban is I don’t know. But I have heard that is what will happen that mlb will put a ban on us. Best case would be  independent league ball or that dream league mlb wants to put for players who are not part of a mlb affiliated team. In other words it’s for players who played low a or rookie league ball. So the repercussions of this will be catastrophic for us to lure any team if we let the squirrels leave. 

Interesting. Can you provide the source of this info? I have a hard time believing MLB would turn away a 1.4 million population market -- too much money at stake.

BTW - not saying this info is wrong - I just would like to see the source and see if it's corroborated anywhere.

[Downtowner]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:20 AM, I miss RVA said:

Interesting. Can you provide the source of this info? I have a hard time believing MLB would turn away a 1.4 million population market -- too much money at stake.

BTW - not saying this info is wrong - I just would like to see the source and see if it's corroborated anywhere.

I’ll have to do some serious digging last time I read about it it was like 2021 or 2020. It’s gotta be way back there in the archives somewhere. When I have some time I’ll see if I can find it. 

[Flood Zone]

On 4/13/2023 at 3:10 PM, I miss RVA said:

Oh - re: Portland and Nashville - & MLB - Portland, most definitely. I'd also add Vegas into the mix.

I missed this before, but I didn't include Vegas because the A's going there is inevitable - as this morning's news shows.

[I miss RVA]

2 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

I missed this before, but I didn't include Vegas because the A's going there is inevitable - as this morning's news shows.

Yeah - I've seen where there's been increased discussion of the A's joining the Raiders in Vegas. Hope it doesn't happen. I've no problem with Vegas getting a team - but I do hope something can be worked out to keep the Athletics in the Bay Area, where they've become every bit as iconic over the past 50-plus years as they were for more than half a century prior in Philly.

[WyldKat99]

On 4/13/2023 at 3:10 PM, I miss RVA said:

Agreed on all fronts. Well said.

And I'm beyond grateful Snyder & the Philly ownership group reached an agreement in principle today for the sale of the club. I've been a fan of that team since 1970, and the past quarter century (with the team under his ownership) have been 24 years of pure hell as a fan of that club. Thank God it's coming to an end.

Oh - re: Portland and Nashville - & MLB - Portland, most definitely. I'd also add Vegas into the mix. They've got just about everything MLB would want aside from a first-pitch-ready to-MLB-specs ballpark - and I'm sure it would be almost turnkey to get a ballpark built in Sin City in a timely fashion. No idea of Allegiant could be used temporarily while a ballpark is being built - not sure how they'd wedge a baseball diamond into that field configuration or what the dimensions would be. Either way, I totally see Vegas landing a club.

This article aged pretty quick given today's MLB news that the A's are very likely headed to Vegas! Good call @I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:21 AM, I miss RVA said:

Yeah - I've seen where there's been increased discussion of the A's joining the Raiders in Vegas. Hope it doesn't happen. I've no problem with Vegas getting a team - but I do hope something can be worked out to keep the Athletics in the Bay Area, where they've become every bit as iconic over the past 50-plus years as they were for more than half a century prior in Philly.

Also I have heard nba plans to add two nba expansion franchises already finalized both Vegas and Seattle. Lebron James is part owner of one I have heard. Also nhl I read a rumor is looking to expand to atlanta again in a brand new arena. Mlb I’ve seen lots of talk of expansion. Primarily nashville I’ve  read. Maybe Charlotte maybe salt lake. I see Charlotte more than salt lake. But tampa your next need to relocate to tampa proper to draw more rays fans. Playing retirement home city St. Petersburg florida is a bad spot. 

[I miss RVA]

7 hours ago, Downtowner said:

Also I have heard nba plans to add two nba expansion franchises already finalized both Vegas and Seattle. Lebron James is part owner of one I have heard. Also nhl I read a rumor is looking to expand to atlanta again in a brand new arena. Mlb I’ve seen lots of talk of expansion. Primarily nashville I’ve  read. Maybe Charlotte maybe salt lake. I see Charlotte more than salt lake. But tampa your next need to relocate to tampa proper to draw more rays fans. Playing retirement home city St. Petersburg florida is a bad spot. 

I'm honestly surprised the Rays haven't relocated to Tampa proper - maybe building a ballpark near Raymond James Stadium.

Now, I keep wondering when the NFL finally bites the bullet and puts a franchise in London - preferably Wembley Stadium and not Tottenham (Wembley has natural grass and is larger). Manchester would be a good location as well if they ever wanted two UK franchises - Old Trafford seats 75,000.

What's the over/under that we might see a Super Bowl played in England at some point?

[Downtowner]

8 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

I'm honestly surprised the Rays haven't relocated to Tampa proper - maybe building a ballpark near Raymond James Stadium.

Now, I keep wondering when the NFL finally bites the bullet and puts a franchise in London - preferably Wembley Stadium and not Tottenham (Wembley has natural grass and is larger). Manchester would be a good location as well if they ever wanted two UK franchises - Old Trafford seats 75,000.

What's the over/under that we might see a Super Bowl played in England at some point?

I hate the idea of a permanent team in London. No team here is going to want to fly there for a game cost wise and then come back here for another. I also wouldn’t want to play for a team in London. I would rather put teams in Canada first in like Toronto and montreal. I do like the few games or year in Europe but not  a permanent team. 

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Downtowner said:

I hate the idea of a permanent team in London. No team here is going to want to fly there for a game cost wise and then come back here for another. I also wouldn’t want to play for a team in London. I would rather put teams in Canada first in like Toronto and montreal. I do like the few games or year in Europe but not  a permanent team. 

No NFL team will likely ever be based in Canada due to long-standing territorial agreements between the NFL and the CFL.

Welp... I hate to break it to you - but a franchise based in London is coming at some point. The NFL has wanted this for a couple of decades now - and they've been consistently building momentum with the London regular-season games. Last season there were, what, three games (meaning, games on three separate weeks) in London, no? It's not a leap to see the league increase that number to 4 or 5 in the coming years - which is a stepping stone to 8 (or 9) - which is all that would be needed for a team to be based in the U.K.

Personally, not only do I not have a problem with it, I'd love to see it. You're right, however, in that the players undoubtedly would balk against it. That's something about which I'm sure the league and the NFLPA have already had plenty of discussion. Maybe something gets negotiated into the next CBA with the NFLPA. Maybe there's a monetary incentive that will be offered to the players. Who knows? Will it put a strain on teams with all the overseas travel and constantly adjusting to changes in time zones? Yeah - it will. But wave enough Benjamins in front of the players and we'll see how they adjust. 

And c'mon - who couldn't get behind a team with the nickname already previously used in the old WLAF (did London also have a team in the old WFL?) - "London Monarchs" ... and everyone KNOWS that would be the team name.

Let's face it - there's a TON of money to be made - and the NFL -- particularly over the last 50 or 60 years and CERTAINLY this century -- has NEVER shied away from a pot of gold. It may surprise some, but London is actually slightly larger than NYC - with New York checking in at over 8.7 million in the city and London at 8.9 million. Metro NYC, however, is considerably larger at just over 20 million (per the 2020 census) and metro London weighing in at 14.5 million -- which is larger than metro Los Angeles (13.5 million).

You know the old saying... "Money talks, everything else walks..."

Edited April 23, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

3 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

No NFL team will likely ever be based in Canada due to territorial agreements between the NFL and the CFL.

Welp... I hate to break it to you - but a franchise based in London is coming at some point. The NFL has wanted this for a couple of decades now - and they've been consistently building momentum with the London regular-season games. Last season there were, what, three games (meaning, games on three separate weeks) in London, no? It's not a leap to see the league increase that number to 4 or 5 in the coming years - which is a stepping stone to 8 (or 9) - which is all that would be needed for a team to be based in the U.K.

Personally, not only do I not have a problem with it, I'd love to see it. You're right, however, in that the players undoubtedly would balk against it. That's something about which I'm sure the league and the NFLPA have already had plenty of discussion. Maybe something gets negotiated into the NFLPA. Maybe there's a monetary incentive that will be offered to the players. Who knows? Will it put a strain on teams with all the overseas travel and constantly adjusting to changes in time zones? Yeah - it will. But wave enough Benjamins in front of the players and we'll see how they adjust. 

And c'mon - who couldn't get behind a team with the nickname already previously used in the old WLAF (did London also have a team in the old WFL?) - "London Monarchs" ... and everyone KNOWS that would be the team name.

Let's face it - there's a TON of money to be made - and the NFL -- particularly over the last 50 or 60 years and CERTAINLY this century -- has NEVER shied away from a pot of gold. It may surprise some, but London is actually slightly larger than NYC - with New York checking in at over 8.7 million in the city and London at 8.9 million. Metro NYC, however, is considerably larger at just over 20 million (per the 2020 census) and metro London weighing in at 14.5 million -- which is larger than metro Los Angeles (13.5 million).

You know the old saying... "Money talks, everything else walks..."

If that’s the case just bring nfl Europe back. 

[I miss RVA]

9 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

If that’s the case just bring nfl Europe back. 

It's not the same. Not even close. WAY too much money to be made by the league (and, by extension, to line the pockets of all the owners) with the NFL actually having a franchise based in London. NFL Europe failed for VERY simple reason: it ain't the real thing. When the NFL pulled the plug on the league in 2007, it reported annual losses of $30 million per season. The owners nearly kiboshed it in 2003, and the league fell one vote shy of the necessary nine votes to jettison it.

Let's face it - absolutely no one cares about an entire "sub-league" based overseas. But an actual NFL team playing out of Western Europe's largest market? Given the profit-centric nature of professional sports in general and the NFL in particular, that's a no-brainer.

My friend, the NFL wants London in the league, and it's going to happen at some point. The potential for revenue is simply too great. They've been moving in this direction for a while now, and it's just a matter of time before the league takes the Nestea Plunge and either relocates a flailing franchise to London, or awards them an expansion team. I'm thinking relocation would be preferable - as the league is essentially maxed out at 32 teams from a playability standpoint. Anything larger than a 32-team league makes no sense at all.