City Center / Virginia BioTech Park

[Shakman]

4 hours ago, Downtowner said:

Maybe add some residences for five more floors make it a hotel and residences type tower. I think they could push it. 

Maybe a 100 ft sky garden on top of the tower which could double as a decorative top.

[I miss RVA]

26 minutes ago, Shakman said:

Maybe a 100 ft sky garden on top of the tower which could double as a decorative top.

Exactly! I'd love to see SOME kind of architectural feature built in that could add 100 feet or so to the building.

Maybe something like Philadelphia's Comcast Technology building? Without the spire on the side, it's an otherwise flat-roofed building.

[Flood Zone]

If only it appeared in the middle and not on the side, that finger like appendage is sticking up in a fashion that the building could well have served as First Union's headquarters back in the day....

In this board's 12 Stages of Height, we're well within the Hope Stage. At some point will come Anger when the rule of thumb kicks in and we're looking at 20% less than rumored, and then will come Bargaining when we start calculating CoStar Feet. But for now we're doing good!

Edited September 5, 2023 by Flood Zone

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Flood Zone said:

If only it appeared in the middle and not on the side, that finger like appendage is sticking up in a fashion that the building could well have served as First Union's headquarters back in the day....

In this board's 12 Stages of Height, we're well within the Hope Stage. At some point will come Anger when the rule of thumb kicks in and we're looking at 20% less than rumored, and then will come Bargaining when we start calculating CoStar Feet. But for now we're doing good!

Good stuff! Well said! When we begin calculating in CoStar Feet^TM you KNOW we've hit rock bottom and need some SERIOUS 12-step intervention.  I can see it now:

(Any one of us): "Hi... I'm Joe Shlabotnik, and I'm an RVA height-o-holic..."

(Other meeting attendees, in unison): "HI JOE!!!"

Edited September 5, 2023 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

I know these are just conceptual drawings, but I like the concept drawing of City Center Gateway Partners best, but love the height of  Richmond Community Development Partners:

 

[Virginian11]

Anyone know when these would actually break ground once selection is made?

[eandslee]

8 minutes ago, Virginian11 said:

Anyone know when these would actually break ground once selection is made?

Good question!  No one knows, but hopefully it won’t be 5 years from now with full build-out after 15 years!! 

[I miss RVA]

41 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I know these are just conceptual drawings, but I like the concept drawing of City Center Gateway Partners best, but love the height of  Richmond Community Development Partners:

Same here. The Gateway Partners concept SOOO looks like something you'd see here in Chicago. VERY "big city".

But I'm with you - RCDP has vaulted to the top of my "hope we get THIS one" list with the chance at a 40-story, 450-foot-tall building.

AND - again, as you said, it's only conceptual sketchups - but if you look at the two taller of the three other high rises proposed - (the tower fronting Leigh Street close to 7th - and the building proposed for 7th and Clay) - both appear to be in the neighborhood of 30 stories (which is the floor count I came away with from one of the residential buildings in the Gateway mock-up) - and prior to upgraded floor count for the hotel, the two buildings being referenced were to have been the tallest in the development. And they're pretty robust! If the color rendering of the RCDP proposal is any indication, the building at 7th and E. Clay could be iconic in its own right as a very dark -- black or dark grey cladding with dark windows - VERY different from what we've been seeing in RVA in recent years.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Child2021]

I really hope the City Center area developed before 2030, I think the plans currently presented would be wonderful for that (other than VCU health taking it all over). We could be getting a new court house, federal building, city hall, and hotel.  

But I got to admit that I will miss the current city hall, as it's been around for decades. 

[eandslee]

1 minute ago, Child2021 said:

I really hope the City Center area developed before 2030, I think the plans currently presented would be wonderful for that (other than VCU health taking it all over). We could be getting a new court house, federal building, city hall, and hotel.  

You and me both, man!  This is a huge opportunity to rebuild every old state and city building in the downtown area, which is long overdue...and the hotel...oh, the hotel which could be a nice iconic signature tower downtown!  That is...IF the city can get its act together, which I don't have a lot of faith in.  There's no reason why we still don't know anything about the status of this development yet.  Are the developers who submitted plans still on board with what they proposed?  Honestly, City Center should already have a groundbreaking date!  Why the big delays from the city?  Huge red flags to me.  My inkling is that this development is probably as good as dead, unfortunately.  All the city's resources have been used up to get the baseball stadium built.  Frustrating.

[I miss RVA]

6 minutes ago, eandslee said:

You and me both, man!  This is a huge opportunity to rebuild every old state and city building in the downtown area, which is long overdue...and the hotel...oh, the hotel which could be a nice iconic signature tower downtown!  That is...IF the city can get its act together, which I don't have a lot of faith in.  There's no reason why we still don't know anything about the status of this development yet.  Are the developers who submitted plans still on board with what they proposed?  Honestly, City Center should already have a groundbreaking date!  Why the big delays from the city?  Huge red flags to me.  My inkling is that this development is probably as good as dead, unfortunately.  All the city's resources have been used up to get the baseball stadium built.  Frustrating.

I know the two events probably aren't related, but it SO seems, "appears", "feels" like things have just ground all the way to a halt following the departure of the esteemed Maritza Pechin. Not that the process wasn't taking long enough as it was - but man, it just seems like absolutely NOTHING has happened since she bolted the city planning department for that federal job. No idea if she could influence things at all one way of another - and the timing is probably coincidental. But still...

[I miss RVA]

Jonathan Spiers has reporting in today's RBS that the city is looking to budget $3 million to demo and dispose of the Coliseum, even as progress with the City Center redevelopment has been inching along at best (and at worst, completely stalled/stagnated).

The funds for demo would be included in the 2025 fiscal year budget, which begins July 1. According to Jonathan's reporting, no timeline for demo has materialized at this point, but city officials continue to assert that it can be done prior to the deadline for the Richmond Economic Development Authority to sell the property to whichever developer is going to actually undertake the City Center project.

Of course - despite announcing four finalists a  year ago - no decision has been made yet as to which development group will get the project. The city says "negotiations are ongoing" - and the expectation is that the city will get a deal done before the November deadline. Council member Ellen Robertson has publicly requested an update on where things are with City Center. The Coliseum is in her district.

I just wish the REST of City Council would join in and start clamoring for not just updates - but some actual movement. Selection of the winning development group was supposed to have happened LAST SUMMER. And look at how small the footprint we're talking about, relative to the entirety of the overall City Center redevelopment, which essentially mirrors the overall footprint of Navy Hill. What we have here is merely Phase 1. And there's been this little progress on it. What gives?

Ugh... don't get me started. As I've said previously, I can't help but at least "feel" if not outright "believe" that Maritza Pechin's was SUCH an intense driving force behind all of these initiatives (City Center, the Diamond District) - that everything has just simply ground to a halt following her departure. Yes, I know economic conditions have had an impact - but it just seems like after she left, any/all progress on any/all of these projects just flat out stopped. 

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/04/16/richmond-budgeting-3m-for-coliseum-demo-amid-stagnant-city-center-project/

Edited April 16 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

4 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Jonathan Spiers has reporting in today's RBS that the city is looking to budget $3 million to demo and dispose of the Coliseum, even as progress with the City Center redevelopment has been inching along at best (and at worst, completely stalled/stagnated).

The funds for demo would be included in the 2025 fiscal year budget, which begins July 1. According to Jonathan's reporting, no timeline for demo has materialized at this point, but city officials continue to assert that it can be done prior to the deadline for the Richmond Economic Development Authority to sell the property to whichever developer is going to actually undertake the City Center project.

Of course - despite announcing four finalists a  year ago - no decision has been made yet as to which development group will get the project. The city says "negotiations are ongoing" - and the expectation is that the city will get a deal done before the November deadline. Council member Ellen Robertson has publicly requested an update on where things are with City Center. The Coliseum is in her district.

I just wish the REST of City Council would join in and start clamoring for not just updates - but some actual movement. Selection of the winning development group was supposed to have happened LAST SUMMER. And look at how small the footprint we're talking about, relative to the entirety of the overall City Center redevelopment, which essentially mirrors the overall footprint of Navy Hill. What we have here is merely Phase 1. And there's been this little progress on it. What gives?

Ugh... don't get me started. As I've said previously, I can't help but at least "feel" if not outright "believe" that Maritza Pechin's was SUCH an intense driving force behind all of these initiatives (City Center, the Diamond District) - that everything has just simply ground to a halt following her departure. Yes, I know economic conditions have had an impact - but it just seems like after she left, any/all progress on any/all of these projects just flat out stopped. 

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/04/16/richmond-budgeting-3m-for-coliseum-demo-amid-stagnant-city-center-project/

we also are losing leanord sledge. Whoever is the next mayor need to make big time hires for this city and smart hires. I think people are leaving because this administration is over with and onto the next one. 

[I miss RVA]

COMMENTARY

Here's a new opinion piece by Jon Baliles of RVA 5 x 5 on the current state of play with the City Center redevelopment. (Apologies for posting the entire piece - Baliles does not provide a link to only this article.)

STORY #2 — City Center Shoe Drop
For the last eight years under Mayor Stoney, economic development projects have followed a similar pattern with similar results. Announce a city-involved project with a bang and lots of pretty pictures, talk about how great it will be for the city and cost us nary a dime, then say nothing while months (or years) pass, reassure that negotiations “are continuing,” which is then inevitably followed by the announcement that the city will indeed bear some cost and responsibility (but that was in reality the better way all along) and whatever the cost, it will be worth it — just you wait and see.

The vote to fund the new baseball stadium in the Diamond District is coming up on Wednesday, and it will commit $170 million of city money to backstop the bonds in case the development falls short of paying the debt, after years of the Mayor and CAO telling us the city would not be on the hook for any of the debt. But believe it or not, that is another topic for later this week.

This piece is about why the Mayor’s City Center economic development plan had come down with a bad case of inertia until suddenly, we are told the city has to commit a big chunk of money to get it going.

Last month, Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) Lincoln Sanders told City Council that the city now needed to pay $3 million to demolish the Coliseum to help spur the City Center development process that kicked off with such promise in 2022.

The city issued a request for proposals in the fall of 2022. The Greater Richmond Convention Center Authority and Richmond Economic Development Authority reviewed the proposals and chose four finalists in May 2023 to choose from. The Times-Dispatch ran an article on June 1, 2023 with highlights and diagrams “that lay out the groups’ visions for the mixed-use development project, with conceptual renderings that bring their plans to life. The winning development group will be tasked with demolishing the Coliseum structure within 12 months, repurposing the historic Blues Armory on North Sixth Street and building a 500-room hotel that will support the Greater Richmond Convention Center.”

It also noted that “The [city’s] Economic Development and Convention Center authorities hope to announce a preferred development group this summer [2023].”

By early September 2023, Richmond Bizsense reported that the city was taking an even more detailed look at the plans of the four development groups and hoped to make a final selection by fall 2023.

Then, in February of 2024, Virginia Business reported that no one knew where the process was, when a final selection would be made, or when the final selection process was taking so long.

Which brings us to a few weeks ago in mid-April when the CAO suddenly announced the city needs to pony up and pay $3 million for the demolition of the Coliseum — which the city had originally included in the request for proposals to which all four developers responded understanding demolition was clearly their responsibility.

But now, that $3 million will be coming from the city’s Capital Improvement Budget to pay for something the city told developers they should be expected to pay, and will prevent the city from directing that funding to schools or roads or community centers, for example.

BizSense reported that CAO Saunders reported to City Council that, contrary to the solicitation the city issued in 2022, all of a sudden, demolishing the Coliseum would help reenergize City Center while also removing a public safety liability and costs of about $500,000 annually to keep the shuttered structure secure.

“If we do not move forward with advancing the demolition of the Coliseum, we will likely have to offset that with additional security costs to maintain the integrity of the fencing, etcetera, that is intended to keep folks from getting inside and causing challenges. Doing this would also, I think, help with advancing and/or enabling the City Center project to move forward at a faster pace, without adding that cost and challenge to the (project),” Saunders said.

Of course, the city could have also done this a year or two ago for the same reasons Saunders is using as excuses now; the city could have demolished the Coliseum as part of the enticement of the City Center project before even issuing the solicitation from developers (and probably used federal pandemic aid to do it).

But it was also clear then that there was significant interest from developers in the project with an invitation to develop a ten-acre swath of highly developable tracts downtown (including a 500-room hotel next to a very successful convention center), and the city could (and did) use that as leverage to have the developers pay for it. But rather than negotiate from a position of strength, the city seems to have since decided the best path is to pull out the checkbook.

The Diamond District development took months longer than anticipated to reach an agreement, and then in spring 2023, the first shoe to hit the floor was that the city would pay millions for infrastructure and the stadium opening would be delayed a year to 2026. After that, that project saw no action or news for almost a year until the Mayor and CAO suddenly said a few weeks ago the city would be responsible for all of the debt as the second shoe hit the floor.

There has been no news about progress on City Center since last summer. It is unclear what Saunders means by spending $3 million of city money to demolish the Coliseum will achieve a “faster pace” to select the City Center developer or make the project doable. But the city waving the white flag to pay for demolition is the first shoe to hit the floor.

One possibility for the sudden city surrender could be that the prospective developer(s) might be fearful about unforeseen costs like asbestos abatement or other hidden costs of demolition that could cost more than $3 million. Of course, that would have been clear during the solicitation process (and is apparently a major issue in the demolition of the Public Safety Building site being paid for by VCU which is well behind schedule).

Another possibility is that those interested in developing City Center saw that the city is willing to do anything to get a deal done, especially since Stoney & Company have failed at every large economic development deal they have tried to get the city involved in over the last seven years. Desperation to get a deal done makes leverage a two-way street.

It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that a developer that watched the city fumble the Diamond District project for the last 18 months and then abandoned the original financing plan (yes, interest rates played a major role), but when the city turned and took full backing of the bond debt, someone might also have concluded that they could get the city to pay for the demolition of the Coliseum (and maybe even more) as part of the City Center deal.

It’s also possible that neither of those scenarios will play out, or we might see something else entirely. But we know that since the first shoe dropped and the city is paying the $3 million to demolish the Coliseum, another shoe is likely to follow. It won’t happen until after the Diamond District deal is secured, and just how much more it may cost the city is TBD. But we know since the Mayor is on his way out, he is so anxious to close these deals so the city will offer whatever it takes to get them done, whether it makes good financial sense or not. And once again, we will be the ones left to pick up his tab.

[I miss RVA]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:00 AM, I miss RVA said:

Jonathan Spiers has reporting in today's RBS that the city is looking to budget $3 million to demo and dispose of the Coliseum, even as progress with the City Center redevelopment has been inching along at best (and at worst, completely stalled/stagnated).

The funds for demo would be included in the 2025 fiscal year budget, which begins July 1. According to Jonathan's reporting, no timeline for demo has materialized at this point, but city officials continue to assert that it can be done prior to the deadline for the Richmond Economic Development Authority to sell the property to whichever developer is going to actually undertake the City Center project.

Of course - despite announcing four finalists a  year ago - no decision has been made yet as to which development group will get the project. The city says "negotiations are ongoing" - and the expectation is that the city will get a deal done before the November deadline. Council member Ellen Robertson has publicly requested an update on where things are with City Center. The Coliseum is in her district.

I just wish the REST of City Council would join in and start clamoring for not just updates - but some actual movement. Selection of the winning development group was supposed to have happened LAST SUMMER. And look at how small the footprint we're talking about, relative to the entirety of the overall City Center redevelopment, which essentially mirrors the overall footprint of Navy Hill. What we have here is merely Phase 1. And there's been this little progress on it. What gives?

Ugh... don't get me started. As I've said previously, I can't help but at least "feel" if not outright "believe" that Maritza Pechin's was SUCH an intense driving force behind all of these initiatives (City Center, the Diamond District) - that everything has just simply ground to a halt following her departure. Yes, I know economic conditions have had an impact - but it just seems like after she left, any/all progress on any/all of these projects just flat out stopped. 

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/04/16/richmond-budgeting-3m-for-coliseum-demo-amid-stagnant-city-center-project/

UPDATE

City Council has clawed back the proposed allocation of $3 million for demolition of the Coliseum in their new $2.9 billion budget for the upcoming fiscal year. According to Jonathan Spiers' reporting in today's RBS, City Council amended the proposed budget, moving $2 million out from this planned demo allocation in order to further fund RPS. And while I'm VERY unsettled now about the future of City Center, I don't think anyone can complain about beefing up funding for RPS. It's a good move and the right move.

Another $500K would go toward other higher-priority projects, leaving only $500K in the Coliseum demo budget line item. 

Again - not complaining about shifting funds toward the schools - it's a tremendous need. But I AM continuing to grow increasingly concerned about the complete stall-out of the City Center initiative. SO much work went into this - and we've been sitting on four finalists for a year now, and still ZERO movement. I've been trying to manage expectations, and sadly, I'm starting to think this redevelopment isn't going to happen - at least not in the near future - if at all.

From Jonathan's reporting:

City administrators had proposed the $3 million for the Coliseum demo in light of safety concerns, ongoing security costs and to rejuvenate the seemingly stalled City Center project that would redevelop the arena site and other adjacent city-owned properties. Council’s amendments reduce that amount by $2.5 million, leaving the demo unlikely to occur next fiscal year.

Uhhhh... ya think?!?!?!  

So, if nothing else, the Coliseum will still be sitting there a year from now - and who knows whether or not the city will simply fold up the tents on City Center, shrug the shoulders and say - "oh well... we tried... maybe next time..."

It's extremely frustrating and disheartening, and quite frankly, friends, I'm sick and tired of this. As I've stated many times in the past (and taken flak for it from the cheerleaders who either haven't been alive long enough or haven't lived in RVA long enough to witness all of the city's FUBARs and fumbles I have witnessed is over the past five decades) this is 100% consistent with the city's track record over the past 50-plus years on these kinds of things. I've seen this movie before -- too many damn times. Big announcements of grand plans, money spent on studies, planning, drafts, RFPs issued, renderings of proposals, lots of media hype... and then... nothing. Crickets. It just... stops. And time keeps ticking by... until the announcement eventually comes along well down the road saying "the initiative has been canceled due to... (fill in the blank)."

I've said this a million times over - the city has NO business LARPing as land developer. YES - do recruitment. Do planning. Set guidelines, goals, etc., in the master plan or SAPs. And then sell the land and turn the bloody thing over to developers to do the heavy lifting. Because if it involves city money, it ain't going ANYWHERE. These things work in other cities. But for some reason, in RVA, they're snakebitten.

Mind you - I'm not throwing in the towel - yet - and saying that City Center is done. But let's just say that right now I'm reaching into the utensil drawer for the fork to stick into it, based on the reading I'm seeing on the meat thermometer.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/05/13/minus-coliseum-demo-funds-revised-richmond-budget-up-for-council-vote-tonight/

Edited May 13 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

27 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

UPDATE

City Council has clawed back the proposed allocation of $3 million for demolition of the Coliseum in their new $2.9 billion budget for the upcoming fiscal year. According to Jonathan Spiers' reporting in today's RBS, City Council amended the proposed budget, moving $2 million out from this planned demo allocation in order to further fund RPS. And while I'm VERY unsettled now about the future of City Center, I don't think anyone can complain about beefing up funding for RPS. It's a good move and the right move.

Another $500K would go toward other higher-priority projects, leaving only $500K in the Coliseum demo budget line item. 

Again - not complaining about shifting funds toward the schools - it's a tremendous need. But I AM continuing to grow increasingly concerned about the complete stall-out of the City Center initiative. SO much work went into this - and we've been sitting on four finalists for a year now, and still ZERO movement. I've been trying to manage expectations, and sadly, I'm started to think this redevelopment isn't going to happen - at least not in the near future - if at all.

From Jonathan's reporting:

City administrators had proposed the $3 million for the Coliseum demo in light of safety concerns, ongoing security costs and to rejuvenate the seemingly stalled City Center project that would redevelop the arena site and other adjacent city-owned properties. Council’s amendments reduce that amount by $2.5 million, leaving the demo unlikely to occur next fiscal year.

Uhhhh... ya think?!?!?!  

So, if nothing else, the Coliseum will still be sitting there a year from now - and who knows whether or not the city will simply fold up the tents on City Center, shrug the shoulders and say - "oh well... we tried... maybe next time..."

It's extremely frustrating and disheartening, and quite frankly, friends, I'm sick and tired of this. As I've stated many times in the past (and taken flak for it from the cheerleaders who either haven't been alive long enough or haven't lived in RVA long enough to witness all of the city's FUBARs and fumbles I have witnessed is over the past five decades) this is 100% consistent with the city's track record over the past 50-plus years on these kinds of things. I've seen this movie before -- too many damn times. Big announcements of grand plans, money spent on studies, planning, drafts, RFPs issued, renderings of proposals, lots of media hype... and then... nothing. Crickets. It just... stops. And time keeps ticking by... until the announcement eventually comes along well down the road saying "the initiative has been canceled due to... (fill in the blank)."

I've said this a million times over - the city has NO business LARPing as land developer. YES - do recruitment. Do planning. Set guidelines, goals, etc., in the master plan or SAPs. And then sell the land and turn the bloody thing over to developers to do the heavy lifting. Because if it involves city money, it ain't going ANYWHERE. These things work in other cities. But for some reason, in RVA, they're snakebitten.

Mind you - I'm not throwing in the towel - yet - and saying that City Center is done. But let's just say that right now I'm reaching into the utensil drawer for the fork to stick into it, based on the reading I'm seeing on the meat thermometer.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/05/13/minus-coliseum-demo-funds-revised-richmond-budget-up-for-council-vote-tonight/

Yeah, when I read that this morning I was equally as frustrated!  Another year to wait now for ANY movement on the City Center development…and outside of the DD, City Center has been a “priority.”  Well, I guess not…and I’m not sure that throwing $3M at RPS is the right answer either.  There is something fundamental that has to change for City schools to change - the answer is not to just throw even more money at the problem expecting that to work. There’s already more money spent per child in the city (by a lot) than money spent per child in any of the county schools…and yet, somehow the City schools are still not better than county schools. So, throwing money at RPS is not the answer. This should have gone to the Coliseum in my mind, which probably would have been worth the $3M.  The City just needs someone with some power (who is pro development) to grab the bull by horns and just get the City Center project going! So very frustrating!!  Argh!! 

[I miss RVA]

35 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Yeah, when I read that this morning I was equally as frustrated!  Another year to wait now for ANY movement on the City Center development…and outside of the DD, City Center has been a “priority.” 

The City just needs someone with some power (who is pro development) to grab the bull by horns and just get the City Center project going! So very frustrating!!  Argh!! 

I've said before that I think Maritza Pechin's departure from the city has had a HUGE and deleterious impact on the progress of the initiatives on which she played a tremendous role as a mover, shaker and driver. It seems like any/all progress on both the Diamond District and City Center simply ground to a halt the minute she walked out the door. Leonard Sledge's departure also worries me. The vacuum/void left by two very forward-thinking players in the city's planning and economic development arm is very troubling.

What's equally concerning is: what will the makeup of City Council be following the upcoming election? And particularly from a policy/progress standpoint, who will take the reins as mayor? I'm PRAYING Andreas Addison is elected mayor, particularly considering that he has an excellent pro-economic-development, pro-progress track record. I'd feel very comfortable with him at the helm from a policy standpoint, and perhaps he's exactly who is needed to jump in and try to work with various agencies to kickstart things.

I still say, though, that the esteemed Ms. Pechin was THE rocket fuel who was driving the city toward realizing its tremendous growth potential. Her departure appears to have been crippling. Man... a couple of years ago with her and Sledge leading the way, I honestly thought RVA had FINALLY gotten it right in terms of folks who could really drive the city forward. And now ... one has gone and the other one is soon departing - and it just feels like the ship is now rudderless.

Dunno what to say, @eandslee other than it is extremely frustrating and disheartening. At least, thank God, the private sector hasn't slowed down one iota in Scott's (and in other parts of the city) and it looks like Manchester (and by extension, Swansboro) are about to wake up from the year-long slumber with a bunch of in-the-pipeline developments apparently gearing up to get rolling.

[CitiWalker]

Who owns the Coliseum anyway?  Was there a timeline to demolish it?  I am no engineer but.... it seems like something cost effective could be done to upgrade it. The coliseum is larger than The Scope and Hampton Coliseum, but they are still open and drawing entertainment.... I always liked the shape of the Richmond Coliseum. It could use a new skin to wake it up, but it has a unique Iconic design IMO . That thing is built pretty solid. With all the engineering technology CAD systems and such you would think they could take what exist and expand on it.  It's like an old house with good bones. Strip it down and rework it. Doesn't a large portion of the coliseum consist of concrete already? The easiest thing to do is tear it down but I would like to see some really talented engineers create something wonderful with what they have. 

[I miss RVA]

41 minutes ago, CitiWalker said:

Who owns the Coliseum anyway?  Was there a timeline to demolish it?  I am no engineer but.... it seems like something cost effective could be done to upgrade it. The coliseum is larger than The Scope and Hampton Coliseum, but they are still open and drawing entertainment.... I always liked the shape of the Richmond Coliseum. It could use a new skin to wake it up, but it has a unique Iconic design IMO . That thing is built pretty solid. With all the engineering technology CAD systems and such you would think they could take what exist and expand on it.  It's like an old house with good bones. Strip it down and rework it. Doesn't a large portion of the coliseum consist of concrete already? The easiest thing to do is tear it down but I would like to see some really talented engineers create something wonderful with what they have. 

I hear where you're coming from and those are good points. However, from an urban planning perspective, the Coliseum not the highest and best possible use of that land. What's proposed for City Center is significantly better and can have a far greater and far more lasting impact on the revitalization of downtown than trying to rehab a facility that the city deemed too costly to upgrade and maintain and shuttered five years ago. I believe it's owned by the city or - minimally - the land is owned by the city. I'd much rather have a revenue-generating 550-room convention hotel, 1,000 (or more) residential units, office space and commercial/retail space, gathering places (the small park that would be framed by the City Center high-rises, for example) and other amenities on this site as the centerpiece of a larger, comprehensive redevelopment that will bring in another 1,000-to-1,500 residential units, office and commercial space and could integrate the proposed GRTC transit hub complex which, itself, will contain residential, office, commercial and possible hotel space, and would link to the booming VCU Health campus.

And indeed - I realize that the caveat regarding City Center is: IF it ever gets built. I'm just a layman, but I'm at a loss why this initiative appears to have completely stalled out. (I pray the engine is still running!)

Either way, regarding the Coliseum, it's time to move on from this relic. It's served its purpose and did so admirably. But unless something happens to derail the GreenCity development, a much larger arena is going to be built there - and metro RVA doesn't need two Coliseums, particularly when the downtown land is better suited to be converted into a high-density, high-intensity redevelopment that will bring people living, working, playing and being downtown 24-7-365. Recall previous discussions about my urban planning profs and VCU saying the penicillin for what ails downtown RVA is 30,000 people LIVING downtown as the benchmark for what would make the district a truly thriving place. Adding some 2,500 residential units by developing City Center would be a definite step in the right direction toward that goal. 

Edited May 13 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

22 minutes ago, CitiWalker said:

Who owns the Coliseum anyway?  Was there a timeline to demolish it?  I am no engineer but.... it seems like something cost effective could be done to upgrade it. The coliseum is larger than The Scope and Hampton Coliseum, but they are still open and drawing entertainment.... I always liked the shape of the Richmond Coliseum. It could use a new skin to wake it up, but it has a unique Iconic design IMO . That thing is built pretty solid. With all the engineering technology CAD systems and such you would think they could take what exist and expand on it.  It's like an old house with good bones. Strip it down and rework it. Doesn't a large portion of the coliseum consist of concrete already? The easiest thing to do is tear it down but I would like to see some really talented engineers create something wonderful with what they have. 

I believe the city owns it. I could be wrong though on that one. Either way it’s disgusting to see all of these studies and all of this crap just to still have that thing still sitting there. I’m ready for them to just implode it it’s time to move on from it. No point in Saving it. Im waiting for it to fall on its own because the city keeps neglecting it I have more stock in betting it will fall down on its own before the city does anything to it.

[CitiWalker]

22 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

I believe the city owns it. I could be wrong though on that one. Either way it’s disgusting to see all of these studies and all of this crap just to still have that thing still sitting there. I’m ready for them to just implode it it’s time to move on from it. No point in Saving it. Im waiting for it to fall on its own because the city keeps neglecting it I have more stock in betting it will fall down on its own before the city does anything to it.

Other than it being ugly looking I still say it is functional. The aesthetics part can be delt with. City Hall began to look like a monstrosity until they re-skinned it.  It should never have been shuttered until everything was written in stone.  Hampton Coliseum and the Scope are both older than the coliseum and they are still operating with less capacity. I think most people just look at the exterior and want to write the arena off.  Even the Baltimore arena is still open. If you are waiting for the Coliseum to collapse you will be waiting a lifetime for it to collapse. Have you seen photos of how it was constructed. A lot of Concrete. As I said yeah it is ugly, but I believe it can be updated. However, if all of these other cities can make use out of their much older facilities it makes sense to rethink and reimagine before we get rid of an asset that is already on the table.

. 

[eandslee]

The main problem isn’t that it’s ugly (although it is absolutely butt ugly), the real issue is that it’s not designed and functional for modern shows!  If it were still open, it would attract second and third-rate shows at the very best!  Richmond deserves better, which is why the GreenCity Arena was proposed to attract the first-rate, big shows people want to see and pay lots of money to attend!  The fact of the matter is, by the time you redesign the Coliseum to modernize it to today’s standard, you could have just built a new arena altogether, which is what you’d be doing!  The Coliseum is dead and no longer useful - move on!  Plus, the City Center proposals on the table now would get after bringing more people living and visiting downtown…exactly what Downtown needs. I’m really all for an arena Downtown, but it would have to be a destination venue and be part of a larger mixed use development with residential on top of it, etc.  Unfortunately, that ship has sailed for Downtown (because of the NIMBYs), so let’s stop trying to resurrect a dead, butt-ugly, non-functional facility.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, CitiWalker said:

Other than it being ugly looking I still say it is functional. The aesthetics part can be delt with. City Hall began to look like a monstrosity until they re-skinned it.  It should never have been shuttered until everything was written in stone.  Hampton Coliseum and the Scope are both older than the coliseum and they are still operating with less capacity. I think most people just look at the exterior and want to write the arena off.  Even the Baltimore arena is still open. If you are waiting for the Coliseum to collapse you will be waiting a lifetime for it to collapse. Have you seen photos of how it was constructed. A lot of Concrete. As I said yeah it is ugly, but I believe it can be updated. However, if all of these other cities can make use out of their much older facilities it makes sense to rethink and reimagine before we get rid of an asset that is already on the table.

. 

I get where you're coming from, but again, I reiterate that the Coliseum is not the best and highest use of the land. Downtown will be much better served with the components that comprise City Center. Even if it were cost-effective for the city to rehab the Coliseum, it will do nothing to resuscitate downtown. Why do I say that? It was built with the express purpose of being a catalyst for the kind of growth that is being proposed in City Center. It's had more than 50 years to achieve that goal, and with the exception of the BioTech Park on the far northern end of downtown (which is due more to VCU/MCV's proximity than anything else), that immediate area never - EVER - got off the ground, much less lived up to what was hoped for. Too many reasons for that than I feel like sitting here an enumerating. Suffice it to say, while it was great to have a downtown venue for sporting events, concerts, shows, the circus and other things, the Coliseum did very little for downtown - and it was NOT the catalyst is was purported to be. And I should add that I vividly remember it being built, and I attended MANNNNNYYYYYY Richmond Robins and Virginia Squires games there right from the beginning, starting in 1971, not to mention God-Himself only knows how many college basketball games in the '80s (and later the Renegades). It was great to have in its day - but those days have come and have long gone. It's time to move on. 

Another point that I don't want to belabor but is worth bearing in mind: barring something unforeseen, it's a pretty safe bet that the arena at GreenCity WILL get built at some point over the next few years. Henrico has been pretty solid in moving GreenCity forward, and conventional wisdom points to the fact that the arena there will be open for business, if nothing else, by the end of this decade. And with 17,500-to-18,000 seats, it will grab ALL of the sporting events, shows, circus, etc. that have been passing RVA by.  And for those who might kvetch about it 1.) being in the suburbs and 2.) not being downtown: let me say that I'm totally fine with that. We HAVE to change our mindset and move AWAY  from old-school "city vs suburbs" thinking and embrace a regional approach. RVA's primary competition is NOT Chesterfield, Henrico or Hanover. It's Nashville, Raleigh, Austin, etc. We need to see the big picture for what it is and understand that we're competing on a MUCH larger field than just our own back yard.

And once again, as I said previously, from an urban planning perspective, I'd FAR rather have what's proposed for City Center built downtown than a rehab of the Coliseum. More than 1,000 residential units, a 550-room high-end convention hotel, commercial/retail and office space, upwards of four towers (two residential, one hotel, one mixed-use), a gathering place (the small park near the hotel) is a FAR better proposition given what it can/will bring to downtown -- particularly since this Phase 1 of City Center is to be the "centerpiece" part of the greater overall development. Adding some 2,500 residential units to the blocks north of Broad will pay dividends multiple times over, and will generate tax revenue for the city for decades. How much revenue is the city taking in on property it owns and/or otherwise a parking deck or two and surface lots? 

Cities evolve. They change. They grow. Letting go of the Coliseum and planting the seeds (City Center) for a REAL resurrection of downtown is what a changing, evolving and growing Richmond needs to do. I'm looking forward to seeing that evolution, change and growth.

[I miss RVA]

Let me add this for some perspective: IF (and we all know just how BIG a word "if" is) Richmond Community Development Partners is selected (and they made a strong pitch by UPDATING their proposal by beefing up the size of the hotel to 40 stories and 450-feet tall, which would be the tallest building in Richmond) - THIS is what -- potentially -- could rise on the footprint of the Coliseum. And of the two (the Coliseum or this development), which has the best prospect of real long-term sustainability? Which will potentially generate the most tax revenue to the city? Which has the greatest potential to pump life into downtown and help push it toward becoming a true 24-7-365 kind of place, bustling with people and activity?

With all of that said, I ask the following question: do you REALLY want the Coliseum to stay on this parcel or land? Or do you want THIS? built on the very same parcel of land? (Spoiler alert - you don't need to work for SpaceX to figure out what my answer is on this question...)

Edited May 13 by I miss RVA

[plain]

I'm just going to say it: everything that's been happening lately, from Paul Goldman's attempted delay of the Diamond District, to now City Council "amending" the budget and removing funds for the coliseum demo, is 100% POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. Election year, people.

 

The individual council members are literally trying to make themselves look good by allocating more funds to the already extremely well funded RPS (like the city haven't been building new schools left and right), thus getting the public into this "hey, look at what I did for my district" BS that's been plaguing this city for decades.

 

Meanwhile, don't be shocked if Goldman attempts to run for mayor again, if not this election then next one. In his mind, "sticking it to the man" is going to look real good on his resume. 

 

It's pretty clear to me that none of these people care about what gets built and what doesn't, all they care about is securing THEIR future. The citizens of the city need to vote their asses out and very carefully pick their replacements. Same goes for the mayor.