The Fan / Museum District

[whw53]

To clarify - we are only losing 13 units but the original proposal was only for maybe a third to a half of the footprint site  and in that proposal the Triangle Farms was still operating along Bainbridge. This new plan takes over the whole block as Triangle has closed up shop.

[I miss RVA]

Some good reporting today in RBS about continued expansion at both the VMFA and the VMHC - the two anchor heavy-hitters on Arthur Ashe Boulevard. Glad to see both institutions continuing to grow and expand - another enhancement to RVA's cultural offerings. (As I mentioned elsewhere on here last week - RVA punches WAYYYY above her weight for a city and metro of her actual size population-wise. These museums constitute the #3 and cleanup hitters in the batting order.)

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/04/26/vmfa-state-history-museum-spending-millions-on-expansions-renovations/

[I miss RVA]

Grand re-opening of the VMHC is this weekend. The VMHC has become one of the city's truly BIG museums - one of the jewels in the crown that is RVA's collection of outstanding large museums. Cities RVA's size population wise generally don't have the level of museums we have here. We're fortunate to have an asset in our museums that's much more like what one would find in locations such as D.C., NYC or Chicago.

This weekend's re-opening looks to be a fantastic event!

https://secure.virginiahistory.org/1465/1468

Edited May 12, 2022 by I miss RVA

[ancientcarpenter]

20 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Grand re-opening of the VMHC is this weekend. The VMHC has become one of the city's truly BIG museums - one of the jewels in the crown that is RVA's collection of outstanding large museums. Cities RVA's size population wise generally don't have the level of museums we have here. We're fortunate to have an asset in our museums that's much more like what one would find in locations such as D.C., NYC or Chicago.

This weekend's re-opening looks to be a fantastic event!

https://secure.virginiahistory.org/1465/1468

Love the new design and progress they are making. My only wish is to make the front of the building on Arthur Ashe blvd more approachable. 

I lived on boulevard for years and had no idea I could just walk up to that building and go inside of it. With it being next to the Daughters of the Confederacy building, they both make this "fortress" feel that does not invite you in. VMFA did a great job naturally gravitating people to the side/rear entrance.

I've been to VMHC 3x in my life and have never used the back entrance...didn't even know it was an option.

I honestly thought VMHC was just a vague name for another pro-confederate historical society and didn't think much of it. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by ancientcarpenter

[Brent114]

I think it looks inviting from the street and like you, I use the front entrance.  I’m looking forward to seeing the reworked main entrance area, the one from the 90’s or early aughts was really awkward.  It had a small airport or discount shopping mall feel to it.  It wasn’t grand.  It wasn’t lofty.  It wasn’t inviting. It didn’t feel at all like a world class museum entrance (the permanent exhibit that tells the story of Virginia is world class, IMO.  Those gallery renovations from 10 years or so ago were very nice).  

[I miss RVA]

33 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I think it looks inviting from the street and like you, I use the front entrance.  I’m looking forward to seeing the reworked main entrance area, the one from the 90’s or early aughts was really awkward.  It had a small airport or discount shopping mall feel to it.  It wasn’t grand.  It wasn’t lofty.  It wasn’t inviting. It didn’t feel at all like a world class museum entrance (the permanent exhibit that tells the story of Virginia is world class, IMO.  Those gallery renovations from 10 years or so ago were very nice).  

The images I've seen so far are really spectacular. Looks like they've done a really outstanding job with the renovation. Good call on it, @Brent114-- I love that we can honestly say that RVA actually does has legitimately world-class museums - something cities our size generally can't say. I know the term gets used a ton on this forum (by me in particular ) - but frankly, when it comes to our museums, both in number, size, variety and quality, RVA absolutely 100% punches WELL above her weight population-wise. It's a great source of pride for all of us - and I'm grateful we have such a fantastic asset!

[Shakman]

25 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

The images I've seen so far are really spectacular. Looks like they've done a really outstanding job with the renovation. Good call on it, @Brent114-- I love that we can honestly say that RVA actually does has legitimately world-class museums - something cities our size generally can't say. I know the term gets used a ton on this forum (by me in particular ) - but frankly, when it comes to our museums, both in number, size, variety and quality, RVA absolutely 100% punches WELL above her weight population-wise. It's a great source of pride for all of us - and I'm grateful we have such a fantastic asset!

Absolutely.  A number of times I have taken out of town friends and previous significant others to Richmond museums.  Most of the time the museums were their favorite tour of the City.   All said they were surprised by the size of the museums for a metro of its size.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Shakman

[wrldcoupe4]

Perks of being the state capital. The biggest museums are heavily funded by the state. 

[Wahoo 07]

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/05/18/developers-planning-to-fill-fan-site-with-up-to-eight-townhomes/

More Fan infill.  

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/05/18/developers-planning-to-fill-fan-site-with-up-to-eight-townhomes/

More Fan infill.  

Great project for that neighborhood. Cary Street has really gotten on the map as an infill hotspot. 

I love the developers' mindset. Check this out from the article:

With an SUP already in mind, Shron, who has over 20 years’ experience as an architect, decided to draw up another option for the site — one that includes building two rows of four townhomes that share a rear wall. That proposal would bring eight new homes to the neighborhood.

“That might be what we end up going forward with,” Shron said.

Squeezing as much density as possible into infill projects such as this is part of Center Creek’s ethos, he said.

“One thing we like to do, for better or for worse, is intensify land use and challenge norms with density. If we look at ever-growing demand and dwindling supply of housing in Richmond’s neighborhoods, that has to be part of the answer,” Shron said. “We have to think outside the box about how we use land in the city and in the central locations everyone wants to be in.”

And check out the photo - I LOVE the rowhouses immediately east of the development site (left side in the picture) - not sure if they're all new construction or a reno plus new, but they are SO reminiscent of the classic rowhouses you see in Baltimore and Philadelphia. 

[ancientcarpenter]

16 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Great project for that neighborhood. Cary Street has really gotten on the map as an infill hotspot. 

I love the developers' mindset. Check this out from the article:

With an SUP already in mind, Shron, who has over 20 years’ experience as an architect, decided to draw up another option for the site — one that includes building two rows of four townhomes that share a rear wall. That proposal would bring eight new homes to the neighborhood.

“That might be what we end up going forward with,” Shron said.

Squeezing as much density as possible into infill projects such as this is part of Center Creek’s ethos, he said.

“One thing we like to do, for better or for worse, is intensify land use and challenge norms with density. If we look at ever-growing demand and dwindling supply of housing in Richmond’s neighborhoods, that has to be part of the answer,” Shron said. “We have to think outside the box about how we use land in the city and in the central locations everyone wants to be in.”

And check out the photo - I LOVE the rowhouses immediately east of the development site (left side in the picture) - not sure if they're all new construction or a reno plus new, but they are SO reminiscent of the classic rowhouses you see in Baltimore and Philadelphia. 

 

This spot has been empty for quite some time and density would be great. The back to back is a great idea - I don't think a house facing that alley will be too much of a negative for a buyer, it's quite open and clean back there compared to the average alley. 

Kudos to the developer for density. Wish the project allowed for more height with retail at base. Now that would be special.

Main st and Cary st past Arthur Ashe boulevard were pedestrian deserts. Areas that didn't serve much purpose except for a few restaurants and bars clumped together on some intersections. I'm happily surprised to see it more alive and seeing people extend their typical Cary St walk across Arthur Ashe boulevard. My child's daycare is on Main st (fan area) and we regularly walk around before and after pickup and I now see all types of people walking up and down where it was typically empty years ago. Very exciting. 

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, ancientcarpenter said:

 

This spot has been empty for quite some time and density would be great. The back to back is a great idea - I don't think a house facing that alley will be too much of a negative for a buyer, it's quite open and clean back there compared to the average alley. 

Kudos to the developer for density. Wish the project allowed for more height with retail at base. Now that would be special.

Main st and Cary st past Arthur Ashe boulevard were pedestrian deserts. Areas that didn't serve much purpose except for a few restaurants and bars clumped together on some intersections. I'm happily surprised to see it more alive and seeing people extend their typical Cary St walk across Arthur Ashe boulevard. My child's daycare is on Main st (fan area) and we regularly walk around before and after pickup and I now see all types of people walking up and down where it was typically empty years ago. Very exciting. 

The alleys in that part of the city are nicer and quite a bit wider than they are farther north into the heart of the fan. That said - if more developers were to do back-to-back projects like this, at least a few of the alleys could be "converted" into named mini-streets. Were that to happen in this case, it certainly would seem totally appropriate to have a separate address bearing the name of the "street" fronting the house, rather than a Cary Street address.

[Wahoo 07]

18 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

The alleys in that part of the city are nicer and quite a bit wider than they are farther north into the heart of the fan. That said - if more developers were to do back-to-back projects like this, at least a few of the alleys could be "converted" into named mini-streets. Were that to happen in this case, it certainly would seem totally appropriate to have a separate address bearing the name of the "street" fronting the house, rather than a Cary Street address.

On the alley topic -- I've thought for a long time that the alleys in Shockoe (esp. the Slip) would make for great pedestrian restaurant rows.  There's one in Portland, ME that is a great example of this.

[rjp212]

They really should add some mid-rise apartments/boutique hotels to Carytown.  McDonalds, 7-11, Wells Fargo, CVS, Walgreens, Carytown Burgers, Dogma Grooming are all businesses that could easily be turned into ground floor occupants of a new building.

[wrldcoupe4]

Completely agree 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, rjp212 said:

They really should add some mid-rise apartments/boutique hotels to Carytown.  McDonalds, 7-11, Wells Fargo, CVS, Walgreens, Carytown Burgers, Dogma Grooming are all businesses that could easily be turned into ground floor occupants of a new building.

I'd love to see it. The question is: how/where? I'm thinking the only way to make it happen would be to displace businesses, aside from cutting into Kroger's parking lot (which even though they'd pitch a fit, I'm always in favor of turning surface parking into high-density development). Dogma and Starbucks, for example, could go into a new apartment building (or boutique hotel) constructed on the south side of Cary between where those businesses are now (seriously cutting into the Kroger parking lot) if such a building were to be developed WITHOUT displacing either Dogma or Starbucks. Mind you, it would be BETTER to build out something at an intersection - but in that block, one or the other of the existing businesses would have to be displaced to make that happen.

The parcels occupied by 7-11 and Wells Fargo across Beaumont Street from each other on the south side of Cary are perfect sizes for such development. I'm guessing you're thinking in the 6-story range, no?

 

[Brent114]

The hotel that was planned for Thompson Street would have been a great start.  Everyone whined about it being out of scale, even though the gargantuan Publix was under construction one block over and the Fresh Market isn’t exactly small. 

[I miss RVA]

38 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

The hotel that was planned for Thompson Street would have been a great start.  

Everyone whined about it being out of scale, even though the gargantuan Publix was under construction one block over and the Fresh Market isn’t exactly small. 

Well said, @Brent114-- fully agree with you. A couple of thoughts:

1.) Yes, that hotel would have been a fantastic start and likely quite transformative. Thompson and Cary is a fantastic location for something a little larger with a bit more umph. Of course, the problem is the NIMBY's/BANANAs who want nothing to change but complain when things get run down because - nothing changes.

2.) Scale is one of those big buzz words in RVA NIMBYism. Well said about the Publix - but here's why the NIMBY's have no problem with a grocery store the size of the Greater Richmond Convention Center being built in the hood: 1.) It serves their WANTS (much less "needs") and 2.) it's short and flat. It can be the size (as in breadth) of an aircraft carrier, but if it's no more than two stories tall, it's a-okay because somehow that's "in scale". GOD FORBID somehing five or six or seven stories on a quarter-block parcel rise, even thought it can be designed to be architecturally sensitive to the neighborhood and an attractive space that will provide a ton of economic opportunity and growth for a neighborhood. It drives me nuts because RVA NIMBYs hurl around the "scale" argument like grenades, using them to blow up even the best-looking, most economically beneficial projects. The whole "scale" argument drives me nuts - because they equate a developer putting a six-story building on a quarter-block sized parcel with developers dropping in something the size of the Burj Khalifa. It makes me nuts. And it was this way 50 years ago (in the '70s) - and it hasn't changed one iota unfortunately.

[wrldcoupe4]

The hotel on Thompson didn’t die because of NIMBY’s, the developer bailed when the pandemic crashed the hospitality market. It can be resurrected.  The huge McD’s site is a great redevelopment opportunity.  Better odds than the front of the Kroger lot which is always packed and will never happen. 711 and Wells are no brainers as well.  

[I miss RVA]

20 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

The hotel on Thompson didn’t die because of NIMBY’s, the developer bailed when the pandemic crashed the hospitality market. It can be resurrected.  The huge McD’s site is a great redevelopment opportunity.  Better odds than the front of the Kroger lot which is always packed and will never happen. 711 and Wells are no brainers as well.  

Good call on the McD's site, Coupe. How do make it happen? I'm guessing it would be a tough sell to the McD's folks as well as locals who frequent that Golden Arches location, no? It's a good site - and I could see something 6-stories with good density and McD's on the ground floor there. Is the back parking lot across  the alley also McD's? Probably doesn't matter because I doubt the city would give up the alley easement/throughway.

What do you think would actually work there: 6-stories, max? Any chance to push it to 7 or 8 if it's stair-stepped properly?

 

[rjp212]

6 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

I'd love to see it. The question is: how/where? I'm thinking the only way to make it happen would be to displace businesses, aside from cutting into Kroger's parking lot (which even though they'd pitch a fit, I'm always in favor of turning surface parking into high-density development). Dogma and Starbucks, for example, could go into a new apartment building (or boutique hotel) constructed on the south side of Cary between where those businesses are now (seriously cutting into the Kroger parking lot) if such a building were to be developed WITHOUT displacing either Dogma or Starbucks. Mind you, it would be BETTER to build out something at an intersection - but in that block, one or the other of the existing businesses would have to be displaced to make that happen.

The parcels occupied by 7-11 and Wells Fargo across Beaumont Street from each other on the south side of Cary are perfect sizes for such development. I'm guessing you're thinking in the 6-story range, no?

 

Yes, displace all the businesses I mentioned above.  They take up a larger footprint than need be and are holding the neighborhood back.

Edited August 8, 2022 by rjp212

[I miss RVA]

56 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

Yes, displace all the businesses I mentioned above.  They take up a larger footprint then need be and are holding the neighborhood back.

I'd love to see it all come to pass.

The Walgreen's site is plenty big and a good-sized apartment/mixed use building could go there. The only business that doesn't make sense (unless they've moved and Google Maps isn't reflecting it) - is Carytown Burgers -they're in the middle of a bunch of rowhouse businesses on the south side of Cary east of Nansemond, no? Very small footprint, and attached to other businesses.

Re: CVS: that's not technically part of Carytown Exchange? 

Of the businesses mentioned, I'm thinking the toughest to uproot would be Wells Fargo, CVS and Walgreen's. McD's might be tough, too, but perhaps doable. Aside from waving a ton of money in front of their faces, how would developers get these businesses to surrender the land? AND - would they stay in the neighborhood/come back once some of these buildings are built?

ALSO - I wonder how many hurdles would have to be cleared to actually get greater density (something at least 6 stories and decent massing) build in Carytown on lots like these? Is it safe to say that once the first one is built and proves it will work, the others will follow?

Edited August 8, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Flood Zone]

If I recall correctly (and maybe I don’t), that Publix complex was build despite community opposition-there was a vocal segment that was very much anti-.

[rjp212]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

The only business that doesn't make sense (unless they've moved and Google Maps isn't reflecting it) - is Carytown Burgers -they're in the middle of a bunch of rowhouse businesses on the south side of Cary east of Nansemond, no? Very small footprint, and attached to other businesses.

 

Sorry, I meant Burger Bach/Old Dunkin Donuts.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, rjp212 said:

Sorry, I meant Burger Bach/Old Dunkin Donuts.

Gotcha. 

Okay - looking at it on Google Maps - so you're saying everything from (and including) the McD's property west to Nansemond, including all the small businesses on either side of Burger Bach?