CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[CltFlyer]

^^^ I forgot to mention this above, but the card itself only costs $6 cad.  Which can easily be paid for within a few days of use.  

[kermit]

4 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

^^^ I forgot to mention this above, but the card itself only costs $6 cad.  Which can easily be paid for within a few days of use.  

CATS is moving this way. The tap and go system will need to be up and running when the streetcar starts to require payment. Card readers were briefly mounted on the Blue Line vehicles when the BLE opened and UNCC id cards, which are used as transit passes, have the tech already enabled.

Edited October 19, 2021 by kermit

[TGIBridays]

From the LYNX Silver Line Live Virtual Public Meeting today.

They laid out more details about the A and B phasing than I had seen before (starting here: https://youtu.be/IlASae4Ib0A?t=1495).  They're looking at three options for Phase A (Southeast to Matthews).  Basically a good/$, better/$$, best/$$$ set of options. I feel like this is in an effort to make some more cost palatable options... Also it sounds like the $8.1 billion cost estimate doesn't include the sections outside of Mecklenburg County. The Gaston County and Union County sections would only come with regional funding commitments. 

  

Also, I asked what headway they are designing for and if they are designing around 2 or 3 car trains. Sounds like 10 min headway is their goal with lower headways possible and planning for 3 car train stations like the Blue Line extension.  Then again, the Blue Line is still running at 20 min headways, so who knows what they'll actually do when this is built in 15 years.   https://youtu.be/IlASae4Ib0A?t=2584

[kermit]

^ if their plan does not assume trains every 5 minutes they are really fudgeing up.

3 car trains are a waste. Run smaller trains more often! 

Edited October 20, 2021 by kermit

[TGIBridays]

48 minutes ago, kermit said:

^ if their plan does not assume trains every 5 minutes they are really fudgeing up.

3 car trains are a waste. Run smaller trains more often! 

Yeah, I was thinking that as he responded.  He did say they could possibly get down to 7.5 minute headways, which would be more palatable.  But still, like you said, run smaller trains more often.

[KJHburg]

Never knew this and have been there several times.  The other Queen City Cincinnati has a subway system problem it was abandoned before the first tracks were laid.  

Cincinnati's Abandoned Subway (thecincinnatisubway.com)

[CaptainJilliams]

23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Never knew this and have been there several times.  The other Queen City Cincinnati has a subway system problem it was abandoned before the first tracks were laid.  

Cincinnati's Abandoned Subway (thecincinnatisubway.com)

The Proper People made a great urbex video of the Cincinnati Subway a few years back:

 

[JRCLT]

I rode the Blue line today for the first time! Almost it’s full length to get to the university. It was interesting to see the projects in person versus images…they really are massive the developments are especially in south end. I’m usually not in SouthEnd much, but it seemed very nice and vibrant this Saturday morning. It was nice seeing people run and walk on the rail trail in person. Since im usually not around there it may seem silly that I say these things, but looking at it live or even actually being there is something words can not always describe in full detail. Quite a few people on the train, though a lot got off at NoDa so something must be going on there lol. (Around noon)

I can definitely see why the 20min intervals can be annoying, but honestly weren’t all that bad when it takes me like 10 min to walk to the station anyway. 7-10min headways sound magical to me. That would be awesome!

Pet peeve was the amount of trash left behind on the train. People…it’s not that hard to throw away your trash in bin when you have access to one at a station…if you want to live in a landfill I can probably find one for ya but I’m pretty sure they’re starting get expensive. call it “luxury trash” land fills.

I am literally writing this siting in front of minute maid bottle and to the seat across the aisle a water bottle stickers and receipt…oh! And some NERDS candy. Second time riding it back after finishing work. (5:57pm)

[tozmervo]

Envision My Ride planning update today & the 28th online. 

Envision My Ride > Envision My Ride Bus Priority Study (charlottenc.gov)

[tozmervo]

So this is NOT from the "Envision my Ride" update, which had an internet fail tonight and has to be rescheduled. 

However, I did have a chance to watch the Silver line update from a few weeks ago and there were some graphics/tidbits I hadn't seen before. 

• Phase A must include a vehicle maintenance facility. The existing facilities are at capacity. 
• Phase A options are between 12 and 15 miles in length. Phase B is 7 miles in length. (exclusive of the grey extensions, which are dependent on other counties funding)

Feedback on the refinements may be submitted through November 3.

[kermit]

The council's slow rolling and willfully ignorant posturing on the transit plan and UDO damages the city.

[southslider]

The City's willfully deceitful posturing of expanding rail transit to Gaston County, Union County, or even North Mecklenburg County damages the transit plan.

[tozmervo]

36 minutes ago, southslider said:

The City's willfully deceitful posturing of expanding rail transit to Gaston County, Union County, or even North Mecklenburg County damages the transit plan.

I need you to expand on that. What is the willfull deceit?

[southslider]

18 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I need you to expand on that. What is the willfull deceit?

See the actual Phase A options for Silver Line compared to the much more publicized maps of Silver Line. See anything still showing Red Line.

[tozmervo]

4 hours ago, southslider said:

See the actual Phase A options for Silver Line compared to the much more publicized maps of Silver Line. See anything still showing Red Line.

That doesn't tell me anything. All the material pretty clearly says that Gaston and Union counties have to put skin in the game if they want this line to extend into their counties. 

For the red line, they have published extensive details and timelines on the Norfolk southern decisions regarding the rail corridor. On the new presentation documents it says "rail if n-s ever changes policy." (Although the north town politicians themselves seem to be moving away from rail as the solution)

I still don't understand why you think you've been willfully deceived. 

[kayman]

3 hours ago, tozmervo said:

That doesn't tell me anything. All the material pretty clearly says that Gaston and Union counties have to put skin in the game if they want this line to extend into their counties. 

For the red line, they have published extensive details and timelines on the Norfolk southern decisions regarding the rail corridor. On the new presentation documents it says "rail if n-s ever changes policy." (Although the north town politicians themselves seem to be moving away from rail as the solution)

I still don't understand why you think you've been willfully deceived. 

Exactly! It's quite clear that Union and Gaston counties must pass their own local one-cent sales tax to fund the extension of the Silver Line into either. There's a North Carolina statute allowing this in all 100 counties via referendum to apply and enforce. https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_160A/Article_26.pdf
Local Government Sales and Use Taxes for Public Transportation. Part 1. General. § 105-506.

Also the politicos in Northern Mecklenburg County know that the North Carolina Railroad owns the bargaining chip (railroad right-of-way between Charlotte and Greensboro) Norfolk-Southern wants to get them to agree on the Red Line. Political willful dishonesty is at play with the politicos in North Meck because it's obvious they know this.  

If there's anything the City of Charlotte should do is spun off CATS to be a true regional public transportation authority. There's already several examples across the state including Piedmont Authority for Regional Transit (PART) and Triangle Transportation Authority (TTA/Go Triangle) (https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByArticle/Chapter_160A/Article_26.pdf)

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by kayman

[CLT2014]

For the Northern Meck towns.... how did they feel about noise with Commuter Rail proposals? Unlike light rail, Commuter Rail trains are going to be blowing their VERY loud horn at all those at grade crossings throughout Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson. These towns have thousands of people and residential neighborhoods within a half mile of the rail line. Fright trains are loud, but they don't have much frequency. I'm just imagining the amount of complaints that will roll in and the backlash in these suburban communities if a commuter rail train is blaring its horn every 20 minutes starting at 6AM.

On the plus side for BRT through these areas on the Express Lane... it doesn't have to blare a horn. 

[kayman]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

For the Northern Meck towns.... how did they feel about noise with Commuter Rail proposals? Unlike light rail, Commuter Rail trains are going to be blowing their VERY loud horn at all those at grade crossings throughout Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson. These towns have thousands of people and residential neighborhoods within a half mile of the rail line. Fright trains are loud, but they don't have much frequency. I'm just imagining the amount of complaints that will roll in and the backlash in these suburban communities if a commuter rail train is blaring its horn every 20 minutes starting at 6AM.

On the plus side for BRT through these areas on the Express Lane... it doesn't have to blare a horn. 

They give the impression that they don't care about those details of such at all. They publicly crow about they want the Red Line for political points, but privately knows this is something they need to take their fight to the Mecklenburg County Delegation of the North Carolina General Assembly along with the North Carolina Railroad about this. Especially, the misfits on the Huntersville Town Commission especially Lance Munger...  They're intellectually dishonest and frankly a bunch of punks who don't want to keep that energy for the NCGA who has the power instead of the City of Charlotte. 

[CLT2014]

Just now, kayman said:

They give the impression that they don't care about those details of such at all. They publicly crow about they want the Red Line for political points, but privately knows this is something they need to take their fight to the Mecklenburg County Delegation of the North Carolina General Assembly along with the North Carolina Railroad about this. Especially, the misfits on the Huntersville Town Commission especially Lance Munger...  They're intellectually dishonest and frankly a bunch of punks who don't want to keep that energy for the NCGA who has the power instead of the City of Charlotte. 

Yeah I'm just imagining the amount of Huntersville parents lining up to complain how the train horn wakes up their babies constantly every 20 - 30 minutes and it is ruining the peace and quiet in their towns. 

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Yeah I'm just imagining the amount of Huntersville parents lining up to complain how the train horn wakes up their babies constantly every 20 - 30 minutes and it is ruining the peace and quiet in their towns. 

You say that like there haven't been lots of complaints about the Blue Line or Gold Line horns, even on this very board.

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, kayman said:

They give the impression that they don't care about those details of such at all. They publicly crow about they want the Red Line for political points, but privately knows this is something they need to take their fight to the Mecklenburg County Delegation of the North Carolina General Assembly along with the North Carolina Railroad about this. Especially, the misfits on the Huntersville Town Commission especially Lance Munger...  They're intellectually dishonest and frankly a bunch of punks who don't want to keep that energy for the NCGA who has the power instead of the City of Charlotte. 

You might want to give this a listen. None of the mayors sound enthusiastic about commuter rail at this point. Lake Norman-Area Mayors Talk Growth And Regional Cooperation | WFAE 90.7 - Charlotte's NPR News Source

(Not for nothing, the temporary bump stop on the N-S line at Catawba Avenue has been there for well over two years. South of that stop, they might use the line once a week or so)

[kayman]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:21 PM, tozmervo said:

You might want to give this a listen. None of the mayors sound enthusiastic about commuter rail at this point. Lake Norman-Area Mayors Talk Growth And Regional Cooperation | WFAE 90.7 - Charlotte's NPR News Source

(Not for nothing, the temporary bump stop on the N-S line at Catawba Avenue has been there for well over two years. South of that stop, they might use the line once a week or so)

Many have said offline that they actually want the Red Line to be 20+ mile long light rail transit (LRT) from the Gateway Station to Mooresville are why they're not as enthusiastic about anything at this point.  When the locally preferred alignment sent to FTA came out as commuter rail and now BRT on I-77N it was a downward spiral. 

Truthfully, the Red Line could be LRT but the density of the areas close to the N-S owned right-of-way are too low except for Davidson and around downtown Mooresville. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by kayman

[KJHburg]

I think they should use Bus Rapid Transit up the 77 corridor and implement it quickly.  They have the lanes on 77 to speed it up and stations can be off the exits. There is already an express bus parking lot in Huntersville exit 23.  (and should go up to the Lowes campus Mt Mourne area of Mooresville)   They could have this open and operating long before any rail line.  I just dont think NS is going to let them use their RR line.   Stations could be off exit 18 Northlake Mall, exit 23 Huntersville exit 25, exit 28 and exit 30 Davidson landing all with park and ride lots.  then on to Mt Mourne if possible to the huge Lowes campus.  

[southslider]

19 hours ago, tozmervo said:

That doesn't tell me anything.

That's exactly the problem with the "2030 Plan" or pretty much any CATS "plan."

[mintscraft56]

Sounds like Charlotte has a nice light rail system. Hello from The City of Norfolk!

Edited October 31, 2021 by mintscraft56