The "tone" of UrbanPlanet Grand Rapids and its future

[GRDadof3]

In recent days, there have been a lot of posts and personal messages thrown around about the "tone" of UrbanPlanet GR lately, how long many of us have been contributing to this forum, and how a lot of people feel like it has gone progressively "negative" in the last 1 or 2 years. Some of us have been contributing to this forum for 10, 12 even 15 years, long before Facebook was an itch in Mark Zuckerberg's pants. 

So in that vein, I will offer my observations on things, and feel free to add your own. We Mods will leave this thread pretty much alone for members to vent, as long as no personal attacks are made on other members. 

) I personally have felt somewhat negative by the changing of guards at the city and DDA, and things that have become priorities. I for one have presented some very negative views regarding issues like parking, building designs, planning, etc.. Some of those remarks that I have made have been very very "dick-ish" on my part and may have been a reflection of stress in other parts of my professional life. 

) Criticisms on projects and the people involved are usually open season, but generally speaking, pretty much every project in Grand Rapids has at least one person involved with it ON THIS FORUM. Some of it is in jest but I've been the blunt of criticism and it can get under your skin. Some people say "grow a thicker skin" but the day I grow a thicker skin is the day that I am no longer humanistic in other ways. If there is a way to convey criticisms and feedback in constructive ways, you'd be surprised who reads this forum.

) In the vein of who is reading this forum. due to the fact that this forum has been going on for 15+ years, the SEO on pretty much anything related to downtown and near downtown housing and speculation will return Urban Planet Grand Rapids will come up in a search. I don't make this statement lightly: much of the "momentum" and excitement about Grand Rapids development is "centered" around this very forum. The local media has people assigned as UP-GR members, and anyone looking at investing in this area will definitely find this forum. The responsibility we carry as UP-GR members is immense. We have a lot of power to create a bubble, and to create good. 

) One of the reasons I live this forum and do not like forums like The Salon on FB is that dissention is OK here. I feel like at the Salon, you HAVE to subscribe to the progressive hipster handbook (for lack of a better term) or you are made fun of, put down, or "out-liked." I welcome differing viewpoints here. Differing viewpoints create better systems, better outcomes.

) Regarding recent criticisms that joedowntown and I have received lately calling us derogatory names on personal messages: whatever. I mean, seriously, whatever.  If you really think that way let's get together for beers and in short order you'll realize how wrong your are, lol. 

) I would like to keep this forum going because I love to talk about tower cranes, and seriously, who on Facebook and Instagram understands tower cranes? 

Peace. 

[GVSUChris]

11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

In recent days, there have been a lot of posts and personal messages thrown around about the "tone" of UrbanPlanet GR lately, how long many of us have been contributing to this forum, and how a lot of people feel like it has gone progressively "negative" in the last 1 or 2 years. Some of us have been contributing to this forum for 10, 12 even 15 years, long before Facebook was an itch in Mark Zuckerberg's pants. 

So in vain, I will offer my observations on things, and feel free to add your own. We Mods will leave this thread pretty much alone for members to vent, as long as no personal attacks are made on other members. 

) I personally have felt somewhat negative by the changing of guards at the city and DDA, and things that have become priorities. I for one have presented some very negative views regarding issues like parking, building designs, planning, etc.. Some of those remarks that I have made have been very very "dick-ish" on my part and may have been a reflection of stress in other parts of my professional life. 

) Criticisms on projects and the people involved are usually open season, but generally speaking, pretty much every project in Grand Rapids has at least one person involved with it ON THIS FORUM. Some of it is in jest but I've been the blunt of criticism and it can get under your skin. Some people say "grow a thicker skin" but the day I grow a thicker skin is the day that I am no longer humanistic in other ways. If there is a way to convey criticisms and feedback in constructive ways, you'd be surprised who reads this forum.

) In the vein of who is reading this forum. due to the fact that this forum has been going on for 15+ years, the SEO on pretty much anything related to downtown and near downtown housing and speculation will return Urban Planet Grand Rapids will come up in a search. I don't make this statement lightly: much of the "momentum" and excitement about Grand Rapids development is "centered" around this very forum. The local media has people assigned as UP-GR members, and anyone looking at investing in this area will definitely find this forum. The responsibility we carry as UP-GR members is immense. We have a lot of power to create a bubble.

) Regarding recent criticisms that joedowntown and I have received lately calling us derogatory names on personal messages: whatever. I mean, seriously, whatever.  If you really think that way let's get together for beers and in short order you'll realize how wrong your are, lol. 

) I would like to keep this forum going because I love to talk about tower cranes, and seriously, who on Facebook and Instagram understands tower cranes? 

Peace. 

I am really, really glad you named some of these things. Maybe I'm a little too altruistic and naive but I really just want to hop on here a few times a day and get excited about the things going on in our region and pick brains about what could be or might be. I've always admired the many voices and ideas on here and have felt really burdened by some of the darkness as of late; I even told my husband I was getting anxious about checking UP in the last 24 hours. All that to say that we are so lucky to live in this community and to have this online forum and I for one would love to see this continue to be a place for all of us to keep playing city planner, urban developer, and hobby architects. We've got too many great things ahead of us to bring each otherr down now! 

[GRDadof3]

5 minutes ago, GVSUChris said:

I am really, really glad you named some of these things. Maybe I'm a little too altruistic and naive but I really just want to hop on here a few times a day and get excited about the things going on in our region and pick brains about what could be or might be. I've always admired the many voices and ideas on here and have felt really burdened by some of the darkness as of late; I even told my husband I was getting anxious about checking UP in the last 24 hours. All that to say that we are so lucky to live in this community and to have this online forum and I for one would love to see this continue to be a place for all of us to keep playing city planner, urban developer, and hobby architects. We've got too many great things ahead of us to bring each otherr down now! 

Thank you Chris for your contributions and your feedback. Onward and upward!

[LaMas]

I'm new here. Grew up and lived in the area most of my life. Hudsonville-Standale-GR-Grandville. We moved away for a few years but will be moving back to West Michigan (looks like Zeeland) in October. I've been following this site for the past 2-3 years and have learned a lot. I'll agree that lately a few posts have been a little cringe inducing. But I hope you all keep it going and positive. I hope to have a worthwhile contribution once in a while.  

[x99]

Discussions here are at a higher level than you will find most places.  The expertise is better, and the feedback is better.  There are people here who go to meetings no one else attends, and who get documents no one else bothers to look at.  So that's good.  As far as the "tone"... Well, just compare it to anything else on the internet, 90% of which is a raging ad hominem hatefest filled with trolls and ogres of all stripes.  I reserve the right to dislike anyone's ideas, designs, argument, or even their general outlook on life.  I particularly reserve the right to call every other project I see "hideous, amateurish, and little more than a gussied up vertical trailer park with blinky lights, all covered in factory leftover siding."  Since, well, an awful lot of them are.  But I don't reserve the right to ridicule anyone personally.  I think all of us who post here do a fairly good job of drawing that same line in the sand.  But maybe I missed something recently.  

I do have one exception, though. GRDad is a no good rich IVORY COVERED WALLET capitalist pig CAR LOSER nincompoop EARTH KILLER who needs to take his parking ramp GLOBAL WARMING fetish and shove it up his rear.  Just because he needs somewhere to park his precious Bentley with DEAD BABY SEAL interior is no reason to make less room for more GAIA FRIENDLY bike lanes for the rest of us.  I'll bet that CAR WORSHIPING PSYCHOPATH doesn't even take the bus to work.  What a d-ck.  Modern cities run and rely on EARTH SAVING bike lanes, 10x20 ECO FRIENDLY studio apartments, copious LIHTC projects for UNDERPRIVILEGED WOMEN AND CHILDREN, SOLAR POWERED fairy dust, and SAVE THE WHALES unicorn farts for their success.  Oh, just kidding.  Y'alls doing a great job. Even if you may not be as virtuous as this paragraph.    

[mgreven]

As one who has been around here at UP for over 12 years, I think we have it pretty good thanks to our moderators. It's not perfect, but what is? Thanks for your post in keeping this one of my most enjoyable places online to visit! (Almost) always great info and discussion here! It's fun to see how different this town is since I first found this forum using my dial up internet trying to figure what an ad for "Icon on Bond" was all about.  Our best days are ahead here and in GR, I think!

[WMrapids]

Nowhere else will people understand these discussions. I appreciate everyone who contributes here.

[GRDadof3]

6 hours ago, x99 said:

Discussions here are at a higher level than you will find most places.  The expertise is better, and the feedback is better.  There are people here who go to meetings no one else attends, and who get documents no one else bothers to look at.  So that's good.  As far as the "tone"... Well, just compare it to anything else on the internet, 90% of which is a raging ad hominem hatefest filled with trolls and ogres of all stripes.  I reserve the right to dislike anyone's ideas, designs, argument, or even their general outlook on life.  I particularly reserve the right to call every other project I see "hideous, amateurish, and little more than a gussied up vertical trailer park with blinky lights, all covered in factory leftover siding."  Since, well, an awful lot of them are.  But I don't reserve the right to ridicule anyone personally.  I think all of us who post here do a fairly good job of drawing that same line in the sand.  But maybe I missed something recently.  

I do have one exception, though. GRDad is a no good rich IVORY COVERED WALLET capitalist pig CAR LOSER nincompoop EARTH KILLER who needs to take his parking ramp GLOBAL WARMING fetish and shove it up his rear.  Just because he needs somewhere to park his precious Bentley with DEAD BABY SEAL interior is no reason to make less room for more GAIA FRIENDLY bike lanes for the rest of us.  I'll bet that CAR WORSHIPING PSYCHOPATH doesn't even take the bus to work.  What a d-ck.  Modern cities run and rely on EARTH SAVING bike lanes, 10x20 ECO FRIENDLY studio apartments, copious LIHTC projects for UNDERPRIVILEGED WOMEN AND CHILDREN, SOLAR POWERED fairy dust, and SAVE THE WHALES unicorn farts for their success.  Oh, just kidding.  Y'alls doing a great job. Even if you may not be as virtuous as this paragraph.    

OMG that was frickin funny. 

If Richard Florida can admit he may have been seriously wrong, I can too. 

https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/3/15516592/richard-florida-new-urban-crisis-cities

[joeDowntown]

On 9/1/2017 at 5:07 PM, GRDadof3 said:

Well, just compare it to anything else on the internet, 90% of which is a raging ad hominem hatefest filled with trolls and ogres of all stripes.  I reserve the right to dislike anyone's ideas, designs, argument, or even their general outlook on life.  I particularly reserve the right to call every other project I see "hideous, amateurish, and little more than a gussied up vertical trailer park with blinky lights, all covered in factory leftover siding."  Since, well, an awful lot of them are.  But I don't reserve the right to ridicule anyone personally.  I think all of us who post here do a fairly good job of drawing that same line in the sand.

I agree X99, and I think what we're trying to do is adjust expectations. 90% of the web is nasty right now. And that's where we need to rise above. Critical discourse and disagreements are fine. In fact, you and I don't agree often, but you typically say things that challenge why I do or don't like something, and that's a good thing. I've also been somewhat nasty and snarky (to you in particular) and that's bad on me, and a behavior I've changed.

Like GRDad said, this forum is actually a great resource for more than us building geeks who like to battle about window shapes and whether we like castles (or not). 

This is my favorite website and I was feeling beaten down by the negativity lately. I think we can all agree that we're in the midst of growth Grand Rapids hasn't seen before. And the UP will be a much better place if we're not trolling and beating each other up. Leave that to Mlive commenters. Haha

Joe

[metrogrkid]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, GRDadof3 said:

In recent days, there have been a lot of posts and personal messages thrown around about the "tone" of UrbanPlanet GR lately, how long many of us have been contributing to this forum, and how a lot of people feel like it has gone progressively "negative" in the last 1 or 2 years. Some of us have been contributing to this forum for 10, 12 even 15 years, long before Facebook was an itch in Mark Zuckerberg's pants. 

So in that vein, I will offer my observations on things, and feel free to add your own. We Mods will leave this thread pretty much alone for members to vent, as long as no personal attacks are made on other members. 

) I personally have felt somewhat negative by the changing of guards at the city and DDA, and things that have become priorities. I for one have presented some very negative views regarding issues like parking, building designs, planning, etc.. Some of those remarks that I have made have been very very "dick-ish" on my part and may have been a reflection of stress in other parts of my professional life. 

) Criticisms on projects and the people involved are usually open season, but generally speaking, pretty much every project in Grand Rapids has at least one person involved with it ON THIS FORUM. Some of it is in jest but I've been the blunt of criticism and it can get under your skin. Some people say "grow a thicker skin" but the day I grow a thicker skin is the day that I am no longer humanistic in other ways. If there is a way to convey criticisms and feedback in constructive ways, you'd be surprised who reads this forum.

) In the vein of who is reading this forum. due to the fact that this forum has been going on for 15+ years, the SEO on pretty much anything related to downtown and near downtown housing and speculation will return Urban Planet Grand Rapids will come up in a search. I don't make this statement lightly: much of the "momentum" and excitement about Grand Rapids development is "centered" around this very forum. The local media has people assigned as UP-GR members, and anyone looking at investing in this area will definitely find this forum. The responsibility we carry as UP-GR members is immense. We have a lot of power to create a bubble, and to create good. 

) One of the reasons I live this forum and do not like forums like The Salon on FB is that dissention is OK here. I feel like at the Salon, you HAVE to subscribe to the progressive hipster handbook (for lack of a better term) or you are made fun of, put down, or "out-liked." I welcome differing viewpoints here. Differing viewpoints create better systems, better outcomes.

) Regarding recent criticisms that joedowntown and I have received lately calling us derogatory names on personal messages: whatever. I mean, seriously, whatever.  If you really think that way let's get together for beers and in short order you'll realize how wrong your are, lol. 

) I would like to keep this forum going because I love to talk about tower cranes, and seriously, who on Facebook and Instagram understands tower cranes? 

Peace. 

Well, the DOING BETTER QUICKLY is looking good; please keep to the good direction it leads.  It holds us all true to doing what is beneficent and good as we chart our individual and unified courses for attaining the first part of our collective name . . . . that pesky GRAND thing.  Huh, the Metropolis of Michigan's Grand River.  'Nuf said.  I am proud to be a part of our claiming of our name on the stage of the world . . . . 

-Metrogrkid

 

[SupercityGR]

I enjoy this forum. Good source of info and pics of what is going on in Grand Rapids 

[crinzema]

When we all love Grand Rapids, I think it's a fairly easy task to see us all as friends, and not enemies. I've been on here, off and on, for around 8-9 years or so. I've always been fascinated with buildings since I was a kid. Driving through downtown to visit grandma was a treat, and it wasn't because I was visiting grandma. Sorry, Grandma. This fascination lead me into my pursuing architecture and then facility management.  And it my 2nd year of college, I discovered this forum. This forum has been a huge catalyst of mine to remain interested in the development of Grand Rapids after college. I'm now a real estate photographer, and it's an easy job to contribute to this site. This forum has been nothing but good to me. People's tensions rise and recede with the ebb and flow of the political discourse. But like I said at the beginning, we really are all friends on this forum. We should really start believing that. 

[GVSUChris]

Hey Everyone - 

So I hesitated to post this but it looks like it has been a year since this thread was last touched and maybe these kinds of things could use a reminder once a year. I'm not even sure how to say this but I will give it my best and hope that it is experienced as a positive and supportive gesture towards this forum and its users. 

I am sensing that as of late it is getting easier and easier to nit-pick at one another. Sometimes it's a simple jab that could be a misread joke, or an old "grudge" brought up from months past in unrelated threads. I truly believe that all of us care about and are excited by Grand Rapids and its surrounding communities - if we didn't we wouldn't be on here. I also believe we all are very, very, VERY (did I mention very?) passionate about the goings on around the metro. That said, I think that when we are intending to raise concerns/issues with a specific project/idea we are all guilty of also targeting one another rather than the issue/idea. 

I don't want to ramble too much so here is my point: Do I think we are a toxic forum of trolling, negative, and suffocating users? Not at all...maybe not even close...BUT...one of the risks of digital communication is that we don't have the benefit of reading one another's body language or pausing to clarify one another's intents throughout our dialog. While some of us know one another outside of here or of one another, many of us are complete strangers and that strips us all of a certain level of compassion and understanding for one another. So while I do not believe this forum has gotten out of control or unhealthy...when I see this constant bicker/poking that all seems really "harmless" at the surface, I'm aware that in this venue things can escalate/be misinterpreted/become toxic if we aren't more mindful of the reality of how we are communicating with one another. It's a lot easier for a culture to become toxic online than in person and so I am hopeful that we can all be mindful, myself included, when we post a response to another user and question how they might experience our words. 

So with that said...let's keep disagreeing and challenging our communities to do better. Let's express our own opinions and at the same time try to see why other people might not understand our perspective and why we might not understand theirs. This is truly and awesome community and I know that we all want this to be an engaging, vibrant, and sustainable community of development nerds for as long as this region continues to grow and rise; may it be forever and may we all continue to be a part of the conversation together. 

[GRLaker]

I think the key to success for this forum is to not take anything personally. We can disagree on the merits and designs of a project without personalizing it to the point of disparaging those that disagree with us. That being said...I think we do a pretty good job with that. At the end of the day, nothing we say on here means anything in the real world. All anything is on this forum is discussion about projects, the future, the past, and ideas to make things better. 

[walker]

8 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

I think the key to success for this forum is to not take anything personally. We can disagree on the merits and designs of a project without personalizing it to the point of disparaging those that disagree with us. That being said...I think we do a pretty good job with that. At the end of the day, nothing we say on here means anything in the real world. All anything is on this forum is discussion about projects, the future, the past, and ideas to make things better. 

I agree with you and what GVSUChris wrote.  Except I hope that some of what is discussed here has at least occasionally a little influence on the real world.

[ZAP!]

Newish mostly lurker here. Something I can appreciate about this forum, in sharp contrast to others like Reddit, is how no one ever seems to get truly antagonistic with each other. People have disagreements, take shots back and forth, but the discussion is always steered back on topic in the end and no one leaves with bad blood.

[mjak68]

Thank you for this.  It’s right on.  

 

[GRDadof3]

Can't believe I posted this right around a year ago today. Thanks for the reminder Chris.