The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Baronakim]

18 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

There’s large parking lots on both sides of the tracks ,just behind the hotel. A new “ Grand Central Union Station “ can span the tracks and accommodate both a train depot and multiple towers with a transit center for buses, ride share, etc on lower levels with the Amtrak train. 

Not an ideal situation IMO.  I think a better would be on the west side of the tracks at Church Street where there is a wide swath of CSX land from Charlotte to the viaduct at Church.  This land will no longer needed by CSX when the yard is reduced to fewer tracks and no switching yard.  With the proposal for 3 new residential towers over beside Granger already planned, I think Church is much more of a business heart than Broadway and a station right by Amazon seems more viable than a complete rehab of Union Station.  Access at the viaduct level would be available , but surface vehicular access off Chatlotte seems an attractive possibility as well.

 

[Luvemtall]

That’s a respectable idea, I’m on board ! (pun intended) . I also think that Church Street is becoming the address to have Downtown, it is quickly becoming Nashville’s Crown. That location would be perfect, and I have a feeling that some if not all of the nearby NES properties will someday become available for new developments 

[PaulChinetti]

I love all the ideas but considering how much CSX sucks, I don't see how anything short of an act of congress is going to get them to play ball. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/07/headway/bus-systems-routes.html

I get the feeling this will be our future, road diets and dedicated bus lanes. Which, is not a bad thing. 

[markhollin]

Big changes are coming to a 2.5-mile section of Nolensville Pike between Heywood Lane and McCall St.

The US Department of Transportation allocated $13 million for the “We Are Nolensville Pike” project. Let’s explore how Nashville plans to utilize the federal grant funding for safety improvements along the corridor.

The funds, supplemented by an additional $3.2 million from Metro, will support safety enhancements along the span that will includeThe upgrades include:

- New sidewalk connections

- Adding street lighting

- Crossing improvements like pedestrian hybrid beacons and high-visibility crosswalks

- Bike lane enhancements

- Intersection changes

- Signal timing adjustments

- Stay tuned for future updates — NDOT plans to work with TDOT, WeGo Public Transit, and other groups to implement the upgrades.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2023/12/13/nolensville-pike-13m-grand-money-nashville-improve-pedestrian-safety/71907781007/

[PaulChinetti]

This is great. I hope the bikes lanes are protected!

[smeagolsfree]

Part of that section is 6 lanes plus a turn lane so there is no reason they should not be able to add the bike lanes, however part of that section has limited shoulders with unprotected bike lanes already. To reduce the traffic down to one lane or eliminate the turn lanes in favor of a protected bike lane would be a bad tradeoff as there are more pedestrians than bikers along this route. Pedestrians should always take the priority.

I know there are a lot of bike advocates on this board but there are a lot more pedestrian deaths in this city that has to be addressed over protected bike lanes. Sidewalks and crosswalks come before bike lanes. The average person that lives in this area is not a bike rider, they are a bus rider. Bus ridership is up along this corridor. As I have stated in a previous post, biking which I am not against, is not a form of mass transit. It is an alternative form of personal transit. Not many cities which I also posted, have data to back up that bikes area strong form of alternative transit. When you are close in it is fine, but the further out you go the less it has appeal except to the hard-core rider. Even NYC which you would think would score high on the list scores behind many other cities. After seeing riders in NYC rider their bike, there is no way in hell I would ride a bike there. Some of the bike riders are just as bad as the car drivers. The cities money is best spent elsewhere on sidewalks and pedestrian enhancements. A small group can make a lot of noise but not meet the needs of the masses. 

WeGo Public Transit experiences continued growth - The Tennessee Tribune (tntribune.com)

WeGo Public Transit Announces Ridership Increase - Busline News (buslinemag.com)

[PaulChinetti]

Protected bike lanes protect the sidewalks even more too. Narrowing lanes slows people down too. Seems like that would help pedestrians more in both cases.

[nashvillain_too]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Part of that section is 6 lanes plus a turn lane so there is no reason they should not be able to add the bike lanes, however part of that section has limited shoulders with unprotected bike lanes already. To reduce the traffic down to one lane or eliminate the turn lanes in favor of a protected bike lane would be a bad tradeoff as there are more pedestrians than bikers along this route. Pedestrians should always take the priority.

I know there are a lot of bike advocates on this board but there are a lot more pedestrian deaths in this city that has to be addressed over protected bike lanes. Sidewalks and crosswalks come before bike lanes. The average person that lives in this area is not a bike rider, they are a bus rider. Bus ridership is up along this corridor. As I have stated in a previous post, biking which I am not against, is not a form of mass transit. It is an alternative form of personal transit. Not many cities which I also posted, have data to back up that bikes area strong form of alternative transit. When you are close in it is fine, but the further out you go the less it has appeal except to the hard-core rider. Even NYC which you would think would score high on the list scores behind many other cities. After seeing riders in NYC rider their bike, there is no way in hell I would ride a bike there. Some of the bike riders are just as bad as the car drivers. The cities money is best spent elsewhere on sidewalks and pedestrian enhancements. A small group can make a lot of noise but not meet the needs of the masses. 

WeGo Public Transit experiences continued growth - The Tennessee Tribune (tntribune.com)

WeGo Public Transit Announces Ridership Increase - Busline News (buslinemag.com)

WeGo buses have bike racks on the front too

[dmillsphoto]

7 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Protected bike lanes protect the sidewalks even more too. Narrowing lanes slows people down too. Seems like that would help pedestrians more in both cases.

Pedestrian deaths aren't generally on sidewalks, though. The stretch between Wallace/SouthernKills north to about Plaza Mariachi, but especially the intersection at Harding, are all heavily trafficked via foot, and is extremely dangerous to cross even with the dedicated crosswalk going into Wal Mart. Traffic calming is the very first thing they should do there, followed protecting pedestrians crossing east to west. Just my outsider opinion...

[nashvillain_too]

9 hours ago, dmillsphoto said:

Pedestrian deaths aren't generally on sidewalks, though. The stretch between Wallace/SouthernKills north to about Plaza Mariachi, but especially the intersection at Harding, are all heavily trafficked via foot, and is extremely dangerous to cross even with the dedicated crosswalk going into Wal Mart. Traffic calming is the very first thing they should do there, followed protecting pedestrians crossing east to west. Just my outsider opinion...

Hence the part where he says, "Narrowing lanes slows people down too." I'm sure whatever designs NDOT proposes will feature narrower vehicle lanes which in turn means wider,  buffered bike lanes and wider sidewalks. NDOT should also consider curb outs, pedestrian islands, and (highly doubtful) raised crosswalks. Given state involvement, we'll probably settle for hawk signals. 

[Bos2Nash]

I attended the Gallatin Pike/Main Street Public meeting last night and was happy to see a great turn out from residents (and council members). It was a little bit of an arts and crafts night, but it was a great way to get people involved and thinking about the components that make up the a complete ROW. 

One of the parts was creating a "Priority Pyramid". There were about 13 options and folks were asked to develop what they wanted to see prioritized on the corridor. Everyone only did 3 rows, but as I am thinking more about it, I could've turned the page and added an additional row haha. Below is a picture of the one I did. One big thing that I did not include is any form of priority for private automobiles. The corridor is already prioritizing that, so to me including anything related to them would just mean I am thinking about how the status quo is to be maintained. The overall overall priority is to increase the roadside experience - make it comfortable to use the street in modes other than a private automobile. By prioritizing the items underneath this overall concept, we will have sacrifice a little bit of the private automobile prioritization, but the benefit will result in  a safer,, more comfortable street to be on, which in turns makes it much more appealing to develop along.

The other "crafting" time was doing a StreetMix of different segments of the corridor. It was broken down into three segments; 1) 5th to 10th Street - Main Street - (which in my opinion should be 5th to Eastland), 2) 10th to Hart (which is somehow narrower than the first segment?), and 3) Hart to  Briley (this is where NDOT's jurisdiction ends).

I didn't take a picture of my Main Street, so I re-created via StreetMix. This re-created is actually 2' wider than the parameter we were given of 60' wide (curb to curb). The big reason why it is 2' wider is because I want to see 5' bike lanes instead of 4' bike lanes (NACTO calls for 5' wide). Otherwise this would've fit within the parameter (it did at the meeting haha). These bike lanes would be grade separated from the motor vehicle traffic and the planting strip/street trees would separate the bikes from the people (speed separation). The 2-1/2' "buffer" is actually the typical curb and gutter used on most roads. The lane closest to the curb would be 11' wide to allow for buses to travel up and down the corridor. The second lane would be a 10' travel lane that is for private automobiles (sized specifically for smaller vehicles and not large trucks). The 10' median would convert to turn lanes at signalized intersections, thus eliminating very dangerous left turns off the street. I considered making the 11' lane a dedicated bus lane, but once we get inside of 10th Avenue there is not a lot of standing traffic (typically) and with the potential for a lot of development in the next generation (specifically on the land between Woodland & Main from 5th to 10th), having the ability to mix traffic along the corridor will be very helpful. According to the StreetMix math (which I have no idea how it works) this arrangement can move 67,000 people per hour!

The next segment was from 10th to Hart Lane. At this point is where we would begin to see the dedicated bus lanes along the corridor in order to prioritize the buses in "less" commercial stretches of the corridor. Our parameter was 50' wide, so decision making on how the uses interact proved to be tricky. In the solution below, bikes would be allowed to utilize the dedicated bus lane (in lieu of having their own lane). There would be a central median (eliminating left turns except for at signalized intersections) that would allow for pedestrian refuge at crosswalks. This approach means that left turns would need to be made from the thru traffic lane. The NDOT folks confirmed that any dedicated bus lane would "mix" with right turn traffic at intersections. While my sketch shows 48' wide, I had not included any protection for the bus lanes from the typical drive lanes, so either approach could have a 1' wide buffer or the typical drive lane could be 11' (allowing for larger vehicles), but protection of the bus lane would have to be sacrificed. Both of these layouts for 10th to Hart would move approximately 61,000 people per hour (according to StreetMix math).

Here is a cleaned up version from StreetMix (StreetMix requires 11'-6" lanes for dedicated bus lanes to calculate use).

Alternatively, would could eliminate the planting strip/street trees and create a curb protected bus lane and the central median could convert to turn lanes at signalized intersections. The bus lane is still a shared transit lane, so bikes would be allowed to use the full width of the bus lane. Street trees could still be utilized along this stretch, but they would need to be in tree wells (2'x4' but preferably 4'x6'), but that would have to eat into the sidewalk. 

[smeagolsfree]

Here is the issue folks and I get where everyone is coming from but when you cut your nose off despite you face you are missing the point. How slow do you slow traffic down. If it is so slow busses are not moving and cars are not moving, then you are back at gridlock. The pedestrian enhancements are for pedestrian crossings and have any of you or many of you walked that stretch of Nolensville Road?  I have as I used to live down there a long time ago and it is not pleasant. Just as the stretch between Harding and downtown is not safe. There are parts with no sidewalks and long areas between safe crossings for pedestrians. I would drop my vehicle off at Bass tire and ride the bus into town. What a freaking mess. This is by the zoo and there are areas that is not included in this enhancement with no sidewalks and few places to cross and there have been pedestrian deaths.

Yes, buses have room for bikes but if every Tom Dick and Mary rode their bikes there would not be room for everyone. I saw this in NYC. They told them no they could not ride. The bus was packed and no room past the 3 bikes or so on the front of the bus. I would not sacrifice car lanes for bike lanes when they are so infrequently used. I drive into town during the day many times and the number of times I see bikes on the road on my trips I can count on one hand. The bike lanes are not being used except maybe downtown ad many times they are on the sidewalk running me off the sidewalk along with the scooters. It is irresponsible bike riders doing this.

Are bike lanes worth the money being spent....probably not? Bikers are very small minority but, on this board, a larger group because there are a lot more urbanist here. You have to be real in your aspirations. Look at the 

[nashvillain_too]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Here is the issue folks and I get where everyone is coming from but when you cut your nose off despite you face you are missing the point. How slow do you slow traffic down. If it is so slow busses are not moving and cars are not moving, then you are back at gridlock. The pedestrian enhancements are for pedestrian crossings and have any of you or many of you walked that stretch of Nolensville Road?  I have as I used to live down there a long time ago and it is not pleasant. Just as the stretch between Harding and downtown is not safe. There are parts with no sidewalks and long areas between safe crossings for pedestrians. I would drop my vehicle off at Bass tire and ride the bus into town. What a freaking mess. This is by the zoo and there are areas that is not included in this enhancement with no sidewalks and few places to cross and there have been pedestrian deaths.

Yes, buses have room for bikes but if every Tom Dick and Mary rode their bikes there would not be room for everyone. I saw this in NYC. They told them no they could not ride. The bus was packed and no room past the 3 bikes or so on the front of the bus. I would not sacrifice car lanes for bike lanes when they are so infrequently used. I drive into town during the day many times and the number of times I see bikes on the road on my trips I can count on one hand. The bike lanes are not being used except maybe downtown ad many times they are on the sidewalk running me off the sidewalk along with the scooters. It is irresponsible bike riders doing this.

Are bike lanes worth the money being spent....probably not? Bikers are very small minority but, on this board, a larger group because there are a lot more urbanist here. You have to be real in your aspirations. Look at the 

You won't see bike lanes utilized until the bike lanes are safe. A bit of reclaimed gutter next to 5 lanes of 40 + mph vehicle traffic isn't a real bike lane. It's a dare. Implementing bike lanes like this and then saying, "See, no one rides bikes!" would be like building a highway with cobblestones (or something, IDK). 

Even if the bike lanes are safe, they won't be utilized because there aren't any connections to other safe bike routes. See 12th ave. Unless your start and end destination are along that one linear route, it's not very useful.  Also, what times of day are you "observing" cyclist volumes? If you post up around Wedgewood and Magnolia at peak rush hour, you'll see quite a fair number of cycle commuters. 

I don't even know where to begin with your first paragraph but it seems like you're arguing AGAINST pedestrian safety improvements because it's currently not safe for pedestrians. 

 

[smeagolsfree]

The problem I have seen with the stats is there have been no clear studies on how far people are willing to travel for a bike commute. Some say 10 miles, while others say 20 miles, but everything I see is based on private opinion. There are very few studies. As a matter of fact, I can find very few studies done on bike commuting period. I do not see a lot of folks commuting unless there are showers provided at places of employment. A ten-mile commute will take between 40 & 60 minutes for the average biker. I think 60 minutes is closer to the mark. 10 mph. if you are on a roadway in traffic.

I know you folks are avid about this, but you are a minority (a very small one), and this is not Europe. Distances are great. We are a suburban society built for cars, and mass transit of some sort will have to be the answer and not bikes. Scream all you want but bikes are not going to be the answer to our transit problem. Again, I am not anti-bike but a realist. Nashville needs to spend the money for the best return. If buses are what we are going to get, then we need to spend the money on sidewalks to the bus stops and around the schools where there are no sidewalks. With the sidewalks come the storm sewers which help with water runoff which is environmentally helpful. You have to do both at the same time. If you do a poll of what the citizens want, bike lanes or sidewalks what do you think they will ask for? Money is going to be better spent on the sidewalks and if they have room for bike lanes that is fine. I will say some of the places they are putting bikes lanes like Woodmont Blvd. is simply not safe. There is no space for a protected bike lane and barely room for the bike lane period and this is a busy, busy road. To sacrifice a four-lane road for two lanes and protected bike lanes is what I call cutting off your nose despite your face as it defeats the purpose of the road. You have effectively slowed traffic down to a crawl and made space for 5 bikes an hour per day which defeats the purpose. 

You put the protected bike lanes on alternative roadways if need be and not on main roads if you want a protected bike lane and figure out a route that works best.

I am trying to get you folks think sensibly. When folks go to these Metro meetings it always seems it is the progressive bunch thing outside of the box. We need some folks that are still thinking inside of the box and practical. Outside of the box thinking does not always work when you have a limited budget.

The numbers will not benefit the cost. Only 1% commute by bike. Note one of the comments that the employer needs to provide showers, this from a biker. 

This Is the Number of Bike Commuters in the U.S. (bicycling.com)

One of the few studies I can find. I mentioned numbers from this study in another post. The only reason Portland scored well is that is much more dense than other larger cities (much denser than Nashville). Not sure why NYC faired so poorly. Remember most of the larger cities on this list have mass transit as well. Nashville does not. So, they have alternative forms of transit.

LAB_Where_We_Ride_2016.pdf (bikeleague.org)

[smeagolsfree]

22 hours ago, nashvillain_too said:

You won't see bike lanes utilized until the bike lanes are safe. A bit of reclaimed gutter next to 5 lanes of 40 + mph vehicle traffic isn't a real bike lane. It's a dare. Implementing bike lanes like this and then saying, "See, no one rides bikes!" would be like building a highway with cobblestones (or something, IDK). 

Even if the bike lanes are safe, they won't be utilized because there aren't any connections to other safe bike routes. See 12th ave. Unless your start and end destination are along that one linear route, it's not very useful.  Also, what times of day are you "observing" cyclist volumes? If you post up around Wedgewood and Magnolia at peak rush hour, you'll see quite a fair number of cycle commuters. 

I don't even know where to begin with your first paragraph but it seems like you're arguing AGAINST pedestrian safety improvements because it's currently not safe for pedestrians. 

 

Again, not all streets are designed to be bike streets and have protected lanes, especially Nashville. You ought to know this as you have lived here all your life. I ride or at least have until recently and have enough common sense to know there is not enough road to allow for all that you want to do. Go and find a tape measure and see if you can find some more road somewhere but there will simply never be enough bike rider to justify what you want to do, Nolensville Road is where we were talking about originally and most of those folks want a sidewalk safe enough just to catch the bus. There are areas down there where you have to walk in the ditch or a parking lot. That takes priority over any bike lane as far as I am concerned even as a bike rider. Look at the stats.

Look at my other post as far as Woodmont Blvd is concerned. That road is ill designed for a bike lane, has no sidewalks to speak of, so do you want protected bike lanes there? If you start taking the front yards of the folks there for a protected bike lane, I can guarantee you it will be voted down. They will want sidewalks first.

As a driver I take the back roads to keep from getting stuck on the interstate, as a biker there are roads I do not take. that would be one of them. All it takes is a little common sense and some bikers and Metro officials have none.

[nashvillain_too]

17 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Again, not all streets are designed to be bike streets and have protected lanes, especially Nashville. You ought to know this as you have lived here all your life. I ride or at least have until recently and have enough common sense to know there is not enough road to allow for all that you want to do. Go and find a tape measure and see if you can find some more road somewhere but there will simply never be enough bike rider to justify what you want to do, Nolensville Road is where we were talking about originally and most of those folks want a sidewalk safe enough just to catch the bus. There are areas down there where you have to walk in the ditch or a parking lot. That takes priority over any bike lane as far as I am concerned even as a bike rider. Look at the stats.

Look at my other post as far as Woodmont Blvd is concerned. That road is ill designed for a bike lane, has no sidewalks to speak of, so do you want protected bike lanes there? If you start taking the front yards of the folks there for a protected bike lane, I can guarantee you it will be voted down. They will want sidewalks first.

As a driver I take the back roads to keep from getting stuck on the interstate, as a biker there are roads I do not take. that would be one of them. All it takes is a little common sense and some bikers and Metro officials have none.

I'm sure most sane people would love an alternative north/south route in South Nashville. But when you look at the map, what alternatives to Nolensville do you see? In the absence of adding all new non car-oriented infrastructure and development patterns, the only alternative is to diversify the current roadways. 

[MontanaGuy]

The only time when people might consider commuting to work on a bike is when the weather's nice.  In the middle of a cold winter you hardly see anybody riding a bike, even when there's no snow.  It simply isn't practical for the overwhelming majority of commuters.  I lived in two of the cities that rated very high on the list that was posted above, Seattle and Denver.  I was especially impressed with the extensive system in metro Denver which has hundreds of miles of bike trails and I used them regularly when I lived there.  I could get on a bike path right across the street from my house in Aurora and go almost anywhere in the metro area without having to get on regular streets very often.  However, it was far too long of a journey to consider commuting across town to my building where I worked in Littleton which was about 15 miles away.  I see cycling as a recreational activity for the most part and I think it's unrealistic to imagine that it could ever play a significant role in easing our crowed streets.  

[nashvillain_too]

3 hours ago, MontanaGuy said:

The only time when people might consider commuting to work on a bike is when the weather's nice.  In the middle of a cold winter you hardly see anybody riding a bike, even when there's no snow.  It simply isn't practical for the overwhelming majority of commuters.  I lived in two of the cities that rated very high on the list that was posted above, Seattle and Denver.  I was especially impressed with the extensive system in metro Denver which has hundreds of miles of bike trails and I used them regularly when I lived there.  I could get on a bike path right across the street from my house in Aurora and go almost anywhere in the metro area without having to get on regular streets very often.  However, it was far too long of a journey to consider commuting across town to my building where I worked in Littleton which was about 15 miles away.  I see cycling as a recreational activity for the most part and I think it's unrealistic to imagine that it could ever play a significant role in easing our crowed streets.  

Is commuting the only travel that people do? Is it possible to consider a transportation network that isn't solely for the benefit of commuters? Maybe we could acknowledge that there are places along Nolensville. that are worthwhile places to be in and of themselves and that the idea of the pikes as state highways that connect Nashville to other towns just isn't the reality on the ground anymore? (After all, they predate the interstate which is much more efficient at doing that task.) Through the laxness of our zoning and years of laissez faire development, that ship has sailed. These are now city streets. Not arterials. Not state highways. Their current form does not function well. They're dangerous. Unpleasant. Polluting. Loud. Inefficient. 

But you guys are right. Not many people are gonna commute 15 miles by bike. But commuting is only ONE trip that people take in the course of their lives. Downtown is not the ONLY destination. If you could walk or ride a bike a quarter mile to the store, to the clinic, to your kid's school, to the bus stop, to a bar, and it was safe, pleasant, and easy, wouldn't you do it? Don't you think LOTS of people would love to be able to have that CHOICE?  

I don't understand why, on a forum called URBANPlanet, so many are resistant to efforts to (re)make our city more urban. Maybe we should start a new forum called SuburbanPlanet or ExurbanPlanet to celebrate the wonders of cul-de-sacs and septic tanks. 

[Luvemtall]

Like I’ve mentioned before, nothing is going to change or happen until we change the Mindset. That’s the number one reason that transit and proper real alternatives to travel will not happen. Too many are still stuck in the thought of yesterday’s Nashville, not in the present and definitely not thinking of the future. The time is now to realize that this city is grown up now, put the big gal pants on and start opening up the minds to make the Urban Experience happen. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Luvemtall

[MontanaGuy]

30 minutes ago, nashvillain_too said:

But you guys are right. Not many people are gonna commute 15 miles by bike. But commuting is only ONE trip that people take in the course of their lives. Downtown is not the ONLY destination. If you could walk or ride a bike a quarter mile to the store, to the clinic, to your kid's school, to the bus stop, to a bar, and it was safe, pleasant, and easy, wouldn't you do it? Don't you think LOTS of people would love to be able to have that CHOICE?  

Yes definitely, and the only reason that I brought up commuting to work is because that seemed to be the main topic of the conversation.  I've put probably a few thousand miles on my bike over the years, particularly when I was younger so I have nothing against bikes!  If we would look at cities like Denver who's created a wonderful system of bike trails we could learn a lot.  The most obvious thing is that these paths belong in more open areas instead of trying to compete with cars and trucks on regular roads.  The path near my house in Aurora, Co even went through a graveyard which I thought was peculiar at the time but it worked quite well.  There's also a very long bike path that follows one of the interstates that circles the southern suburbs in Denver but it's not right next to the freeway itself, it's off to the north side of the road and it goes on for miles!  It's very popular and I always saw riders using it.  I think that dividing up the roads between cars and bikes is often dangerous and it makes the car traffic much worse, not better.  I was hit by a car while riding a moped when I was in the 8th grade and was lucky I wasn't killed, accidents between cars and bikes are usually a lot worse for the bike riders!   

[nashvillain_too]

2 hours ago, MontanaGuy said:

  I think that dividing up the roads between cars and bikes is often dangerous and it makes the car traffic much worse, not better.  I was hit by a car while riding a moped when I was in the 8th grade and was lucky I wasn't killed, accidents between cars and bikes are usually a lot worse for the bike riders!   

Usually worse for bike riders? I'd say so. 

It's like you're almost there in putting two and two together. But just a bit of data. As of 12/15, 132 people have been killed in vehicle accidents in Davidson County. 36 pedestrians. One cyclist. That leaves 95 in vehicles including 22 teenagers and 9 seniors. 

In 2022, 130 were killed and in 2021, it was 127. 

Nashville ranks 24th nationally in traffic fatalities per 100,000 people at 14.5/100,000. 

Looking at that, I'm just kinda baffled that we're arguing about making roads safer

Edited December 16, 2023 by nashvillain_too

[Bos2Nash]

It was really one person who tried to tie the push for bike lanes to commuting, but I think that was probably because that is where any studies have been done on the nature of bike lane usage. I for one ride my bike and/or walk to work just about everyday now (with exceptions for days I have site visits). I am absolutely in the minority of people who commute via bike, but I am absolutely not in the minority of people who ride their bikes throughout our city or even East Nashville (at a more micro level). Just come down to Shelby Bottoms during the summer months and see how many of those folks - and their families - ride their bikes to Beers by the River! I am not riding to work at the moment purely because it gets dark so much earlier and I dont have lights on my bike. But we don't stop building roads because they sometimes get slippery in cold weather, right? I am not saying we need to imitate what Europe has done, but they are a great case study in how bikes can be implemented in an urban environment. Every city is different, but by using influences of proven solutions, we can make our own network. 

This is more about ROW equality and having the choice (non-tolled choice) on how one moves around the city. If nothing else within the 440/Briley Loop, or hell, even the UZO. Right now only certain folks ride their bikes because either they are A) comfortable enough around cars (many of who have no idea how to drive), B) Because they are trying to make a point about bikes and bikes around the cars (many of who have no idea how to drive), or C) have no other choice because choosing to live closer to their work and such a choice doesn't allow for them to own a car. This is a very logical train of thought. Improve the streetscape so people can use said streetscape in multiple ways and in turn the buildings in which are developed along said corridors would benefit from those additional uses along the streetscape and will develop differently. It's essentially a trickle down Urbanism, just with the understanding of where the trickle effect starts.

The other thing we have to keep in mind about bikes is putting them on greenways - away from building (specifically commercial) frontage - doesn't really provide a solution. It provides a recreational area to ride one's bike, but that's it. It doesn't provide a person the opportunity to go to the grocery store/bank/coffee shop/etc via their bike. To get to those places you still need to utilize the roads or the sidewalks. Yes, some folks would commute to those locations, but what about all those customers to would visit those locations? The mindset (something Luvemtall referenced) is a big aspect to this. Many folks will say, "well you cant go to the grocery store on your bike!" and I would say, will maybe if the mindset was to go to the grocery store more frequently and bought less in bulk (and wasted less, because there can be significant waste in bulk buying) then grocery shopping could be more feasible on a bike or even a cargo bike. Again, having the equality with the ROW is a very big part of that answer. And having a bike on the ROW should be safe and protected. A bike is much closer in speed/weight/danger to a pedestrian, so the idea of putting a pedestrian in the middle of a 35 mph (even though the road is designed for 55+) traffic lane won't fly, so neither should a bike.

All the options I laid out above can move over SiXTY THOUSAND people an hour. Take a typical street cross section with 12' lanes all the way across and we are talking about moving THIRTY THOUSAND people an hour. Even if you change those outer lanes to bus lanes, we are talking about FORTY THOUSAND people an hour. So while studies may show that cyclist commuters may be 1% or less, having an streetscape designed with transit equality in mind actually allow more people to flow through a corridor. Some of those uses may get tied up - ie cars in traffic - but as a whole the capacity of the road is able to bring more people through in a safe manner, while also bring overall benefits to our city.

We as people are very adapting. Change is scary to folks, because unknown is scary to folks. These kinds of changes shouldn't be though. This is a very logical thought process to me. I made the decision to change how it move around my city and as a result have put less than 5,000 miles on my personal vehicle in over two years (mind you I have only been "commuting" via walk/bike for eight months)

[smeagolsfree]

I know during the Urbanist group meeting yesterday there was a person that moved here from Austin that wanted to commute to work from the East End to downtown but there is no viable route. I will say that is a problem, but number one Nashville is not Austin as Austin is laid out differently and is much more bike friendly. The road system in Nashville is not train friendly, bus friendly, bike friendly or even car friendly as a hub and spoke system it lends itself to gridlock and the river and the rail lines only contribute to barriers in the way of anything that Nashville needs to do.

Alternatives?

The one thing Nashville does have going for it is the park and greenway system that is being created. If there is a viable way to further extend the greenway along the many creeks going south or even parallel to the Interstates that may be a win. I do not know how much room there is or could be to do that. If you look along I 24 there is a lot of dead space along the interstate. Could they do something along the train tracks that run down I 65?  How much could CSX give up for a bike lane? We are talking a bike lane only and pedestrian free. Also, what about liability?

I think Mill Creek is the main creek on the map below that runs through the Antioch area and this would be the perfect line for a bike trial.

Browse GIS data | Koordinates

If you look at the Metro Parks map, it looks as if that is the eventual plan and that is to connect the parks along Mill Creek. It becomes more apparent when you zoom in. Nashville Parks Finder. The Master Plan website is not very useful and does not have a lot of info as far as long-range plans. Master Plan - Greenways for Nashville

I would much rather ride along the park trail than the roads, just as long as the homeless do not take over the trails and block them from usage.

[Nathan_in_DC]

21 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I know during the Urbanist group meeting yesterday there was a person that moved here from Austin that wanted to commute to work from the East End to downtown but there is no viable route. I will say that is a problem, but number one Nashville is not Austin as Austin is laid out differently and is much more bike friendly. The road system in Nashville is not train friendly, bus friendly, bike friendly or even car friendly as a hub and spoke system it lends itself to gridlock and the river and the rail lines only contribute to barriers in the way of anything that Nashville needs to do.

Alternatives?

The one thing Nashville does have going for it is the park and greenway system that is being created. If there is a viable way to further extend the greenway along the many creeks going south or even parallel to the Interstates that may be a win. I do not know how much room there is or could be to do that. If you look along I 24 there is a lot of dead space along the interstate. Could they do something along the train tracks that run down I 65?  How much could CSX give up for a bike lane? We are talking a bike lane only and pedestrian free. Also, what about liability?

I think Mill Creek is the main creek on the map below that runs through the Antioch area and this would be the perfect line for a bike trial.

Browse GIS data | Koordinates

If you look at the Metro Parks map, it looks as if that is the eventual plan and that is to connect the parks along Mill Creek. It becomes more apparent when you zoom in. Nashville Parks Finder. The Master Plan website is not very useful and does not have a lot of info as far as long-range plans. Master Plan - Greenways for Nashville

I would much rather ride along the park trail than the roads, just as long as the homeless do not take over the trails and block them from usage.

What you're talking about seems a lot like the Mount Vernon Trail here in Alexandria/Arlington. It extends 18 miles north along the George Washington Parkway from Mount Vernon and connects to the C&O Towpath Trail that follows the Potomac north past Harper's Ferry. By far the most used section though is between Alexandria and the 14th Street Bridge where a separated, protected lane carries it across the Potomac next to I-395 and connects it to the bike network in DC. Thousands of bike commuters use it every day to get between Alexandria, Crystal City, Pentagon City, the Pentagon, Arlington, and DC. Unfortunately, it also gets very crowded during rush hour, and it's a multi-use path that is used by runners and hikers too. Also unfortunately, it's managed by the NPS, which has a horrid reputation for maintaining any non-car infrastructure they own in DC. It needs to be about double the width it is to enable pedestrians and cyclists to safely use the trail and give more passing space for faster cycles...supposedly plans are in the works for improvements, but I'll believe it when I see it. It's so bad that an entire volunteer group has stepped up to do basic maintenance like removing branches, clearing the verges, and using a donated asphalt grinder to remove tree root bumps in the pavement.

On 12/16/2023 at 11:35 AM, MontanaGuy said:

The only time when people might consider commuting to work on a bike is when the weather's nice.  In the middle of a cold winter you hardly see anybody riding a bike, even when there's no snow.  It simply isn't practical for the overwhelming majority of commuters.  I lived in two of the cities that rated very high on the list that was posted above, Seattle and Denver.  I was especially impressed with the extensive system in metro Denver which has hundreds of miles of bike trails and I used them regularly when I lived there.  I could get on a bike path right across the street from my house in Aurora and go almost anywhere in the metro area without having to get on regular streets very often.  However, it was far too long of a journey to consider commuting across town to my building where I worked in Littleton which was about 15 miles away.  I see cycling as a recreational activity for the most part and I think it's unrealistic to imagine that it could ever play a significant role in easing our crowed streets.  

I commute much more when the weather is cold...it means I don't have to shower when I get to work. The vast majority of my biking to work though is in the 6 weeks leading up to fitness tests though, which usually happen in the APR/MAY and OCT/NOV timeframe, so maybe that's why! 

[markhollin]

Nashville Mayor Freddie O'Connell says he hasn't decided if he will pursue a November 2024 vote to expand mass transit, though there are new signs pointing that direction.

O'Connell on Dec. 15 announced a key hire in his new administration, naming Nashville businesswoman Tanisha Hall as his director of transit and mobility. O'Connell also said he believes there is sufficient time between now and the November elections to do everything necessary to hold a transit referendum at that time.

O'Connell touted data from WeGo Public Transit that he said shows local ridership has surpassed pre-pandemic levels. He noted that usage of WeGo's employer-sponsored program has grown 25% in a year. Metro government is one employer participating in the program.

"This is all further proof that when we make transit accessible and convenient, ridership will always increase," he declared.

Hall founded Fairpointe Planning, a transportation planning company, about five years ago. She worked at the state Department of Transportation for seven years prior to that, running its long-range planning division and its $52 million annual budget.

Hall earned a bachelor's in business administration from Southern University at New Orleans, in the city where she grew up. She earned a master's in urban and regional planning from the University of Iowa. She is a board member of the Nashville Civic Design Center.

O'Connell, a longtime transit user and proponent, said he had not made a final decision yet on whether to pursue a referendum. "Bringing Tanisha on-board should help us be able to do that by very early 2024," he said.

"Based on the early analysis," he added, "I do believe there's enough time. … There are a series of legal and financial gates you'd have to ensure you can clear reasonably, and that's what Tanisha is going to be leading the effort on here internally."

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/12/18/mayor-transit-hire-vote-plan-referendum.html