The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashscan]

RTA has enormous hurdles to overcome before a line to Murfreesboro comes to fruition. Primarily because the Lebanon line is one of the few non-freight lines into Nashville.

As a dedicated foamer, I hope it eventually becomes a reality.

[samsonh]

And the rail has very few passengers after one year as I predicted. This project will continue to lose money and require subsidies until it is eventually shut down.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...EWS09/709150358

[nashscan]

And the rail has very few passengers after one year as I predicted. This project will continue to lose money and require subsidies until it is eventually shut down.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...EWS09/709150358

Sir, there is not one single public rail system in the entire country that is self-sufficient. Not even the Northeast Corridor.

[monsoon]

And the rail has very few passengers after one year as I predicted. This project will continue to lose money and require subsidies until it is eventually shut down.

I looked back through your posts on this and what you said was the train would be a failure economically without offering up any suggestions on what would constitute success. You never said anything about passenger load at all. Can you point out any transportation system in Tennessee built with public funds, that is an economic success. And if so, what is your criteria for making that determination?

[samsonh]

I have stated in the past my belief that roads should be privatized. Toll roads would work perfectly. Imagine a world where you do not pay gas taxes(21.4 cents per gallon for TN state, 18.4 cents per gallon for federal), you then have extra cash to pay to use whatever toll road you want. Excessive road construction would cease to be a problem. Public transport would succeed where people wanted it. The free market and capitalism are not things to be feared(although many on this site seem to). Furthermore you state that no transportation system can be considered a financial success. A huge difference between roads and rail is that the roads are being paid for by those who use them. The rail is being paid for by everyone for only a select few.

Metro,

Can you possibly try to argue that this rail has been a success? The rail has half as many passengers as they believed they would. Even the officials who operate the line would most likely tell you the first years results are hugely disappointing. Public transport is a great thing, but running a nearly empty train just to run it is pointless and wasteful. The growth prospects for this line are dismal at best. I would consider this line a success if they were able to operate without huge subsidies. Per an old City Paper article the Metro subsidy alone for the Star is $230 per passenger per month. A month long fare costs only $60. Metro, I hope you see a problem there.

[Nashville_maestro]

I Think that's a great idea. It wont ever happen because the ignorant public wouldnt ever see the benefits. Just the fact that they would have to pay 50 cents every time they wanted to use so and so road. I also agree that union station will never be ued for rail transet again. I was just throwing it out as a fantasy. I do think however that america needs to get out of their cars every now and then. I used nothing but public transit and my own two feet in boston and new york and it worked just fine for me. I dont see why roads are still jamed up there.

[nashscan]

Even Metro knows I'm a staunch conservative. I believe government should be limited as much as possible. There are some things that the private sector cannot or will not do. Mass Transportation is one of them. We need to stop the government handouts and entitlements and throw more money at transportation. Transportation allows me to thrive in a free market economy.

[samsonh]

Even Metro knows I'm a staunch conservative. I believe government should be limited as much as possible. There are some things that the private sector cannot or will not do. Mass Transportation is one of them. We need to stop the government handouts and entitlements and throw more money at transportation. Transportation allows me to thrive in a free market economy.

Errrr, you must be aware that this project is one big government handout to the operators of the MCS. Also you realize that the private sector won't do these things currently because the government is willing to provide transportation at a significant loss. I can guarantee you that if the market were large enough and people wanted it that a private operator of mass transit would come about. To think otherwise is just silly. I can think of one form of mass transportation that every big city has that is provided privately.

Also you may not be a conservative, what you are saying is that you want limited government and for people to keep their money.....until you know whats best for them and then you want to take it and spend it.

[knoxster77]

Samsonh, I just want to start out by saying you make a good point: "A huge difference between roads and rail is that the roads are being paid for by those who use them. The rail is being paid for by everyone for only a select few." It pains me to agree with this, but the rail was costly and only benefits a few people (at least at this moment). Also, you are you bring up a good point about the subsidized gas that helps keep people in their cars. Unfortunately, the low rider turnout and the bad press it gets may end the project and hurt future projects geared towards public transportation in the form of rail.

My belief for why Nashville

Edited September 18, 2007 by knoxster77

[nashvillwill]

^^^great post.

[nashvillwill]

I just though i would mention this for you rail enthusiast.

For anyone who doesn't know, there is a scenic train that runs from Nashville to several stops along the MCS line and beyond. It is called the Tennessee Cenral Railroad. I am taking my first scenic trip on the line next weekend. They offer short excursions to lebanon(64 miles), Watertown(90 miles), and a longer route to Cookeville (180 miles). Some excursions are just labeled as "scenic", while other themes include a murder-mystery train, and a polar express.

It is sure to be fun for the whole family, not to mention a great date. It is also a good educational tool for many southerners who have never used a train for it's intended purpose.

info can be found here... Tennesseee Central Railroad

map

Edited October 16, 2007 by nashvillwill

[ariesjow]

Has everyone seen Charlotte's Lynx Blue Line which just opened up? Not only will it be an incredible asset to their core but it's actually a gorgeous system.

It looks like it's going to be far more successful than our cheap but haphazard commuter rail line to the 'burbs. We need to start calling and emailing our Regional Transportation Authority and public officials to encourage them to have the balls to invest in the future of Nashville and do something along these lines in years to come.

Edited November 25, 2007 by ariesjow

[nashvylle]

I would really like to see Nashville get a public transportation system like the "lynx". A rail-line going through mid/downtown and out towards Brentwood/Franklin or the airport would be very successful in Nashville I believe.

[timmay143]

I thought this article was relevant. Nothing too major. Just talking about a bus route that is used for people who missed the train that is about to get canceled.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/802040354

I hope the STAR system works. I think it will be awhile before Nashville becomes a huge alternate transportation city. I think we are moving in the right direction by starting small and being frugal. Even though the first STAR line hasn't been a huge hit, I think gradually things will get going. At least they didn't spend out the wazoo on this leg, and it should boost awareness. I think eventually Nashville will need a combination of BRT, LRT, and commuter rail to meet the needs of the city and region. I did remember reading about how the bus line to and from Murfreesboro had a growing number of riders. This is a good sign. I think they are looking at BRT for Nashville-Murfressboro, which for some of us is dissappointing (because I, like many, believe a commuter train would be great for this leg). However, like I said before, I think starting small, not spending lots of money, and a combination of alternate transportation is the way to go.

Edited February 4, 2008 by timmay143

[smeagolsfree]

This is probably a good move and takes one more vehicle off the road adn may encourage more ridership of the STAR. I know they are trying to cut as much cost as they can. It's good to see they are getting close to the 12,000 riders a month they wanted.

I just wish they had service up to Ashland City. I would ride the bus into town instead of drive. I cant even call a bloody taxi W/O it costing 40 bucks, so I drive. I will have to say that since gas prices have gone up I have cut my trips into Nashville to conduct business to about one a week.

I think a park and ride service would be a good idea up in this area soon. There is quite a bit of traffic in the mornings headed into Nashville.

[nashvillwill]

I did remember reading about how the bus line to and from Murfreesboro had a growing number of riders. This is a good sign. I think they are looking at BRT for Nashville-Murfresboro, which for some of us is dissappointing (because I, like many, believe a commuter train would be great for this leg).

I can tell you as a frequent rider that the Murfreesboro-Nashville express("Relax&Ride") is quite popular. I reverse commute (from H.H. to MTSU), and i can tell you that the bus is PACKED!! There is only 1 morning bus outbound, and it is usually standing room only by the time i board. When i see the passing inbound buses they are also packed. The route is in heavy use, and i honestly can't understand why service has not been increased. I currently only use the bus 1 day per week(although i make the commute 4 days), but would use it more if service was increased. I really think that MTA is missing an opportunity with the thousands of people who commute to MTSU from Nashville everyday by not offering better service.

Also, it does seem that BRT is the option of choice for any futute Southeast Corridor plan. I've covered this before, so i will spare the datails, but here is a link if anyone is interested.

Southeast Corridor BRT

[Nashville_maestro]

This is a mock up light rail map I did based on minimal research. Ha! Actually I did do a little bit but really this was made just for fun because I think it's neat to look at something like this a wonder "what if..." so please try not to be nitpicky. Also just to prevent any false rumors from spreading (mainly by guests on this forum), This map is not based on any facts nor is it to my knowledge even been proposed to the MTA. This map was soley made by me only for entertainment purposes.

MTA logo is courtesy of the Nashville Metropolitan Transit Authority (even though I had to make it from scratch in photoshop but w/e)

In my fantasy dream world, this is Nashville in 5000 years...

Now about 90% of these lines already exist and run through the areas I labled. The only problem is that they are owned by private companies. Also, the line to Green Hills lwould have to be constructed. Acording to Google maps and the satalite images, what would be the green line actually runs from aklen park (a neighborhood) area to bell meade then to bellvue. So green hills would definately have to ne constrcted. Bellvue to franklin would also have to be constructed. Acording to satalite images, it looks like someone (CSX maybe?) was bulding a rail line from bellvue to franklin but stopped midway.

Also, I had to have an ashland city station for smeagol here.

[smeagolsfree]

I dont think I will be around in 5000 years, but thanks. If I am around in 5000 years I had better take the train because you sure would not want me driving.

I do think there is a plan for a Clarksville extension of rail service, but I think it is the last link. It would go through AC.

[nashvillwill]

I love the map! It's missing an airport connection though.

[satalac]

I love the map! It's missing an airport connection though.

there is one on there. its on the murfreesboro/clarksville line. i think that a commuter train line to murfreesboro would be awesome. i drive from murfreesboro to east nashville everyday and would ride that train in a heartbeat. traveling the I24 parking lot for 2-4hrs everyday with a manual transmission car is not what i consider fun. luckily i will be moving back to nashville soon.

[Nashville_maestro]

Haha! Ok maybe not 5000 years but still.

Oh the airport station is on the orange line in the downtown inset.

Edit- except the post above me cleared that up. I didnt see that.

Edited February 10, 2008 by Nashville_maestro

[tampasteve]

How is the MCS doing now? I am just wondering since it was started on such a low budget, it really could be an inspiration to other cities. How do riders feel about the train sets? Is the service good for you? Also, how do most people get around down town when they arrive?

I am very interested because Tampa is in a similar situation. Right now we do not have any rail transit except for our almost 2 mile heritage trolley line in the DT area. We have been researching commuter rail for a while, but it seems to just be a dream for the most part...

Steve

[smeagolsfree]

How is the MCS doing now? I am just wondering since it was started on such a low budget, it really could be an inspiration to other cities. How do riders feel about the train sets? Is the service good for you? Also, how do most people get around down town when they arrive?

I am very interested because Tampa is in a similar situation. Right now we do not have any rail transit except for our almost 2 mile heritage trolley line in the DT area. We have been researching commuter rail for a while, but it seems to just be a dream for the most part...

Steve

The last I heard is they were a little over 1100 riders a month. The goal was around 1200 a month. Not there yet but almost. I think they are being positive about things and I have not heard any complaints form the riders. I think it will do just fine. I know they are in the study phase of the next link in the chain, whether it be BRT, LRT, or heavy rail.

[monsoon]

This was apparently from a study done in 1999 to put a light rail system in Nashville. Does anyone know any details?

[smeagolsfree]

I need to see what I can find. One of the stops (the arena landport) will be useless now that it is part of the CC site. Since the study is almost ten years old now it may be obsolete. So much has happened DT since this was done.

Seems to me that they are working more towards the outlying commuter possibilities than the inner core, which is a mistake as they should both be done simutanously to compliment each other. Another factor in this equation is the new Music City Central transit center on Charlotte which was not even proposed in 1999 and that would have to play an integral part in any commuter system. Maybe Carl Dean can get ball rolling again.