Greenville - the next level

[gs3]

Greenville did well for years, as it was growing the downtown area, attracting new industry, etc, etc.  Greenville (city and county) has now matured some, and should be ready to go to the next level, but seems every decision (or lack of) made in the city the last few years is fought with bickering and strife.

 

Allow the One development or not?

Allow One to take part Piazza Bergamo?

Allow certain types of signage downtown or not?

The Swamp Rabbit "IS NOT" going through my neighborhood! NIMBY stomps foot here.

Contniue free parking or not?

Allow national retailers downtown or not?

Price sensitive apartments...downtown or not?  Where?

What types of incentives for industries / business?

Some complete failures like the walking of Bi-Lo to Jacksonville.

Bike lanes or not?  On the right or wrong streets?

Are the police being too tight downtown or not tight enough?

What to do about teenage gangs hanging out on Main and Falls Park?

Redo Bi-Lo Center or not?

Palmetto Expo.....what to do with it...hotels?  Yes / no.  Move it?  What to do with Pleasantburg?

On and on and on. 

 

Greenville is now at a point it has never been before and critical descions making skills / agreement are needed (and for the last couple of years seem to be missing to a degree).

Greenville, once the place I considered to have a CAN DO attitude, seems divided into two camps.  Many unhappy business owners downtown.  Many mis-steps by the city.

I've always been interested more in the psychology of cities than anything else.  Just like a human, cities mature in much the same way.  We learn as humans, that what works for us in our career as a fast tracking 20 something, has to change when we become 30's mid level management, and then to continue to succeed, we have to continue to change to be a 40 something Senior VP.  Cities are the same.  Greenville fast tracked for several years, but seems to have hit a wall on certain decision making skills.  That wall is hampering positive growth (and yes, Greenville is growing) but SOOOO much more could be happening.

 

Two steps forward, one step back seems to be Greenville currently.  3 steps forward would be better.

 

Anyone that thinks I or anyone else will judge a city based on Cheescake Factory is plain silly.  Anyone who does not see the correlation between constant disagreement on online forums about the path of the city and the disagreements going on behind closed doors downtown, has their eyes closed. The disagreements, online and behind closed doors mirror each other and show a not so "can do" side of Greenville. 

Greenville has a lot of growing to do and a great deal of changing it must do.  I wish the city the best.  I sincerely hope open minds drown the ever growing number of closed minds.  I hope the city wakes up to the true value of what happy citizens and businesses mean for the bottom line, as well as the positives (and negatives) of the multiplier effect.

 

[gman430]

Sorry but I am not seeing what the City of Greenville is doing wrong. All of the economic development currently under construction or planned speaks for itself and shows people along with businesses want to make this area their home.

However, I will agree that there have been a lot of cry babies on this sub forum lately just because they can't get what they want. Some people need to start being thankful for what they do have here instead of what they don't. There is a reason why cities from all over the southeast and elsewhere come to look at Greenville.

[mallguy]

gs3, there are two ways of leaving a place:

 

(1) Graciously and with style

(2) Your way, as in your post starting this thread

 

Don't let the door slam behind you when you leave.

[gs3]

gs3, there are two ways of leaving a place:

 

(1) Graciously and with style

(2) Your way, as in your post starting this thread

 

Don't let the door slam behind you when you leave.

And this post so proves my points about the attitude / issues in Greenville. Can't discuss the city, but instead making personal attacks. A long road for Greenville........

[GvilleSC]

I support a healthy debate. Ultimately, it's not the opposing views that matter, it's the final decision that counts, IMO. For example, consulting firm after consulting firm has suggested that the City re-implement meters downtown. However, the City has the final say and they've continually taken the stand to keep downtown meter-free. Similarly, a small crowd was upset over the One Development occupying some public land (and its massing), but the City ultimately decided on a land deal to allow this transformative development. Every city faces challenges, and what I'll call "concerned citizens", but ultimately it's the leadership and their decisions that count. We still have Mayor White, and I think he continues to lead this City in the right direction.

 

There's lots of positives going on in the City right now. Things might be moving a little slower than some may like, but that's up to each person to decide.

 

------

 

Along the same lines: Has anyone been down Haywood Road recently? The utility line burial looks awesome! It has cleaned up that section so much! It looks like they have things set up for some new street lighting. It's a smaller start than some may like, but it's a QUALITY upgrade/investment.

[scgubers]

Seriously. You say Greenville is now divided into two camps? And is wrought with strife? Were you here ten years ago when the City used imminent domain for Falls Park? Or when the City knocked down Camperdown Bridge? Or when the City wanted to place a baseball stadium in the West End? Those were times when the city was divided into two camps. And ultimately the city did what was best for the city. Now the city is more unified than it once was. Most of the "problems" you listed are not contentious. Some even occur outside the City limits, like the bike lane issue. Most are just typical problems faced by any growing city. I deal with the major players and stakeholders of the city everyday, to say it is wrought with strife is silly and flat out wrong. I have never seen a higher level of collaboration between public and private entities. From city philanthropists to company's located in Greenville to the City itself, they all want Greenville to grow into an amazing city. And they all want to try their best to help it get there. They don't break into a cowardly jog to another city when they see something they dislike. They attempt to fix it. And if it isn't fixed then it probably isn't a valid concern. 

 

And your claim that online disagreements correlate directly to disagreements behind closed doors is bullshi* Unless the closed doors you sit behind have little value. And by the way suppose your theory of correlation between online disagreement and disagreement behind closed doors is legitimate, well then I would draw out that there is little disagreement behind closed doors. Because you're the only one I see cry on online message boards. 

[greenvilleguy]

gs3, there are two ways of leaving a place:

(1) Graciously and with style

(2) Your way, as in your post starting this thread

Don't let the door slam behind you when you leave.

Haha. You said it before I could get home and type it. Because there are certainly no chains in Dallas <<sarcasm>>. All of this started simply because I said I was disappointed in ONE not landing a national chain restaurant/retailer that I would frequently visit. Either way, it does not change my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree. However, it does seem that all the "bickering" that gs3 mentioned over decisions in the past few years have only made the city better. Every argument or opinion is going to have two sides. That doesn't mean that either side is wrong. What does count is the ability to consolidate those opinions into one well-planned and beneficial result. If he thinks the grass is greener in Dallas then by all means...!ADIOS! Greenville won't lose any sleep without him! So let's not waste anymore time arguing with him and close this thread...

[gs3]

^ "Close the thread". Don't debate the issues, just shut down any remarks that do not paint Greenville in a perfect light. The TRUE Greenville attitude just continues to surface for all to see. Nice!

[scgubers]

How about respond to what I said. 

[Birdbrain]

^ "Close the thread". Don't debate the issues, just shut down any remarks that do not paint Greenville in a perfect light. The TRUE Greenville attitude just continues to surface for all to see. Nice!

The "True Greenville attitude" is to not debate the issues?

OK. Let's debate.  You cite all the "bickering and strife."

Name a project in any city that has no opposition.  (Rhetorical.) Even the 9-11 Memorial in NYC has detractors.

 

It is a plain an simple fact that every issue has three sides. "Thier side, Our side, and the Correct side." It is part of Human Nature that we are all wired to take a stance on a major event, whether for or against.  Human nature also allows for people to also change their minds. 

 

I appreciate what you are trying to say - essentially that you see a lot of "politics" of every kind holding back G-Ville.  If you were here in the early '90's, you will recall these same political types FREAKED over a new auditorium, the closing of the Camperdown bridge, etc., etc. There was even opposition to BMW with qute a few NIMBY's.

 

No, Greenville is no utopia, nor do we pretend to be.  But, Greenville is well known as the model for urban re-development in the South.  That says much more for WHAT IS BEING DONE than for the quibbles in the planning stages.

 

GS3 - I wish you well on your move to Dallas, and don't begrude any opinions you've expressed because everyone has just that - their own opinion.  Whether we agree or not on the various issue, hey - that's HUMAN NATURE.

 

BTW: I've lived in Texas - a great state and you'll love the tax siuation.  You'll get used to the heat in only about 15 years or so. (Ha ha.)

[gs3]

The "True Greenville attitude" is to not debate the issues?

OK. Let's debate.  You cite all the "bickering and strife."

Name a project in any city that has no opposition.  (Rhetorical.) Even the 9-11 Memorial in NYC has detractors.

 

It is a plain an simple fact that every issue has three sides. "Thier side, Our side, and the Correct side." It is part of Human Nature that we are all wired to take a stance on a major event, whether for or against.  Human nature also allows for people to also change their minds. 

 

I appreciate what you are trying to say - essentially that you see a lot of "politics" of every kind holding back G-Ville.  If you were here in the early '90's, you will recall these same political types FREAKED over a new auditorium, the closing of the Camperdown bridge, etc., etc. There was even opposition to BMW with qute a few NIMBY's.

 

No, Greenville is no utopia, nor do we pretend to be.  But, Greenville is well known as the model for urban re-development in the South.  That says much more for WHAT IS BEING DONE than for the quibbles in the planning stages.

 

GS3 - I wish you well on your move to Dallas, and don't begrude any opinions you've expressed because everyone has just that - their own opinion.  Whether we agree or not on the various issue, hey - that's HUMAN NATURE.

 

BTW: I've lived in Texas - a great state and you'll love the tax siuation.  You'll get used to the heat in only about 15 years or so. (Ha ha.)

Thank you. Your honesty is truely appreciated. For years, I was one of Greenville's biggest promoters....so much so that people coined the term "cheerleaders" and they labeled me as the head cheerleader. Once I started questioning events in Greenville however, Greenvillians started to change. Speak well of Greenville and Greenvillians LOVE YOU. Speak those nasty little hidden truths that get swept under the rug and Greenvillians show their fangs. Suddenly, personal attacks against me became acceptable.

 

I really do wish Greenville well....it seemed to be on the right track for years, but somehow, it strayed a bit off course. It has reach a level of success that now requires open minded discussion.....and sadly, the city / citizens do not seem capable of being open to that discussion. Most seem a bit stuck in the previous stage.

 

Good luck. Best wishes. Greenville needs more frank, honest people like you.