Va. Beach Towncenter project

[ace707]

The official groundbreaking for all of phase 3, which includes the Westin and the performing arts theater is May 4th. The developer has mentioned that he doesn't plan on starting construction on the Westin til late summer. No firm timetable on cityview or the other building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What will also be part of phase 3 aside from the Westin and Performing Arts theater? Additionally, how will they be able to complete the Westin by spring 2007 if they start late this summer? Trader is nearly half the height and it will take 18 months (expected completion for Fall 2006) and Granby Tower which is still shorter and has less units will take a full 24 months of construction to complete? It doesn't add up to me.

[okinawatyphoon]

What will also be part of phase 3 aside from the Westin and Performing Arts theater? Additionally, how will they be able to complete the Westin by spring 2007 if they start late this summer? Trader is nearly half the height and it will take 18 months (expected completion for Fall 2006) and Granby Tower which is still shorter and has less units will take a full 24 months of construction to complete? It doesn't add up to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Concerning construction times, I think thats just how they set it up. They can go much faster if they choose, but they choose a certain timeline and they go as fast or slow as they want if they choose. I think the Empire State building had a floor completed everyday or was it one every week? either way, that shows how fast construction can go.

[mistermetaj]

is trader and granby tower really going to be smaller than the westin. I was hoping Norfolk was going to try to compete with us and really save their skyline. I guess not. that is a shame.

[mistermetaj]

is it at least going to be taller than the wachovia tower?

[okinawatyphoon]

Granby Tower will be the tallest building in Norfolk and might actually be taller than the Westin. Besides that, Norfolk has the Hilton Hotel and a rumored 35-40 story building in the works. So even if Westin beats Norfolk, it probably won't be for long.

[lammius]

Granby Tower will be the tallest building in Norfolk and might actually be taller than the Westin. Besides that, Norfolk has the Hilton Hotel and a rumored 35-40 story building in the works. So even if Westin beats Norfolk, it probably won't be for long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know how the 29-story Granby will be taller than the 37-story Westin

[okinawatyphoon]

I don't know how the 29-story Granby will be taller than the 37-story Westin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't think so either, but some other members seemed to think the spire on the Granby Tower is very tall. Plus, it was said that there appeared to be higher ceilings on the Granby Tower than the Westin.

[okinawatyphoon]

And the fact that the Westin is now 37 stories is little more than speculation. The highest the building has been reported to be going is 32 or so. The Town Center site still has it at 30. The only reason for the 37 is because of a rendering.

[vdogg]

I don't know how the 29-story Granby will be taller than the 37-story Westin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's all about ceiling height people. There are some luxury highrises that have average ceiling heights of as high as 15ft. The Westin, at 37 stories, is supposed to be at least 400ft high (which breaks down to 10.81 ft per floor). If Granby were to average 13.79ft per floor they would tie the Westin. Dominion tower, at 340ft and 26 floors, averages 13.08ft per floor. This is typical for and office building. As we all know, the first floor/lobby area can be as high as 20ft, which throws the #'s off even more. It is possible for a 29 story buliding to be taller than a 37 story one. **James Monroe has 29 stories and is 449ft tall, this breaks down to a 15.48ft average ceiling height!**

[vdogg]

The highest the building has been reported to be going is 32 or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually okinawa, that is incorrect. The highest height verbally reported by the developer was 35 stories back in January of 2005 with him specifically stating that the trend is for things to get bigger. I know i already have it posted somewhere on this site but i will repost it here because its a pretty good overview of whats going on with the project. Please read below.

Towncenter hotel condominium tower redesigned and increased to 35 stories in height!

Below is a link to the developers briefing to city council last week (real player streaming video). They show a rendering of the new builing (which btw looks much better IMO) and the developer says explicitly that the trend is for things to get bigger (meaning this may not be the final height). Video is approx. 9 minutes long. Enjoy.

http://www.vbgov.com/e-gov/estream/ccarchi...ildate=1/4/2005

When u get to the page click the pull down menu above the view council  index button. Scroll down to "Resolution re Phase III Towncenter" Once you have that selected click on "View council index" and the 9 minute briefing will play.

[ace707]

Dominion tower, at 340ft and 26 floors, averages 13.08ft per floor. This is typical for and office building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually the ceilings are 10 ft high. The floor sections themselves probably come in around the remaining 3.08 ft since it has the steel girders making them up.

[vdogg]

Actually the ceilings are 10 ft high. The floor sections themselves probably come in around the remaining 3.08 ft since it has the steel girders making them up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is correct that there are spaces between the ceilings, i was making a rough calculation based on foot per floor ratio to indicate how it may be possible for the building height of a 29 story building to be higher that of a 37 story one. I believe however that residential/hotel ceiling heights average 8-10ft per floor while commercial ceiling heights average 12-14ft (though i have heard 10-15 thrown around as well). There are large variances between ceiling heights, even within the same building at times. It all really depends on what the space is to be used for.

[vdogg]

What will also be part of phase 3 aside from the Westin and Performing Arts theater? Additionally, how will they be able to complete the Westin by spring 2007 if they start late this summer? Trader is nearly half the height and it will take 18 months (expected completion for Fall 2006) and Granby Tower which is still shorter and has less units will take a full 24 months of construction to complete? It doesn't add up to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really don't think that spring 2007 date is set in stone. That date was initially mentioned in the city managers briefing when the developer was still considering breaking ground on the Westin in the spring. In a subsequent council meeting he pushed that date back to late summer, therefore i assume that the actual finish date may be pushed back by as many months.

cm briefing **scroll down to CM briefing: Town Center Phase III, and push view council index. Keep in mind that this briefing was done immediately before the developer came to council with the revised design so some of the info is inaccurate.**

[vdogg]

What will also be part of phase 3 aside from the Westin and Performing Arts theater?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some retail and low level office but not much else. The Westin and Performing Arts theater are really the center pieces for phase 3.

[Former Resident of HR]

Aren't both buildings (Westin and Granby) going to be on top of garages? That can really distort the height of a "32 story building" that is really a lot shorter than a 32 story building that has no garage under it.

And what is your opinion on that tower at the TC anyway? The more I look closely at it, the less appealing it is, at least close-up. It has like 5 different designs going on from the ground to the top of the garage section. It's like that LV hotel NY NY that is all these buildings together. It has the Armada Hoffler logo as well as two or three others... tacky.

And couldn't they do anything else with the garage face on the boulevard? It looks like an abandoned building with the empty window panes and bleak gray front. I am hoping that the Westin is not such a hodge podge when it is actually built. I know that there was suposed to be a hotel with a pool up there but is that off the table for good now?

[vdogg]

Aren't both buildings (Westin and Granby) going to be on top of garages?  That can really distort the height of a "32 story building" that is really a lot shorter than a 32 story building that has no garage under it. 

And what is your opinion on that tower at the TC anyway?  The more I look closely at it, the less appealing it is, at least close-up.  It has like 5 different designs going on from the ground to the top of the garage section.  It's like that LV hotel NY NY that is all these buildings together.  It has the Armada Hoffler logo as well as two or three others... tacky. 

And couldn't they do anything else with the garage face on the boulevard?  It looks like an abandoned building with the empty window panes and bleak gray front.  I am hoping that the Westin is not such a hodge podge when it is actually built.  I know that there was suposed to be a hotel with a pool up there but is that off the table for good now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is an excerpt from an article posted in the Granby towers thread

"Such attention played a role in the redesign of Gadams

[vdogg]

And couldn't they do anything else with the garage face on the boulevard?  It looks like an abandoned building with the empty window panes and bleak gray front.  I am hoping that the Westin is not such a hodge podge when it is actually built.  I know that there was suposed to be a hotel with a pool up there but is that off the table for good now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you on that garage. I really don't like how it's designed at all and it takes up entirely too much valuable land.

[mistermetaj]

is there any websites that gives day by day updates on what is going on at Towncenter and norfolk? Pilotonline.com seems to be lacking news and vabeachtowncenter.com never updates.

[urbanvb]

Well, tonight I decided to go for a walk since the weather was great and I thought I would share a few things I was told by my neighbor. Please keep in mind this was info told to me by a 3p. First, he said when the Cosmopolitan is complete that crew will move over to begin building the Westin. And.. again HE said, every residence at the Westin has been bought up!! . He also said that the Taco Bell on the corner of Indy and the Blvd AND the Va Pilot Building has already been sold.. incredible news - if it is true.

[mistermetaj]

does this guy have any connections to the planners?

[urbanvb]

does this guy have any connections to the planners?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt it but he has been in the area a very long time. He knows a lot of people I am sure.

[vdogg]

Well, tonight I decided to go for a walk since the weather was great and I thought I would share a few things I was told by my neighbor. Please keep in mind this was info told to me by a 3p. First, he said when the Cosmopolitan is complete that crew will move over to begin building the Westin. And.. again HE said, every residence at the Westin has been bought up!!  . He also said that the Taco Bell on the corner of Indy and the Blvd AND the Va Pilot Building has already been sold.. incredible news - if it is true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, really good news (if true) in one thread and really bad news (if true) in the other. My head is spinning .

[urbanvb]

I did the same thing.. was like whooooaa.. LOL. But I don't see this as bad.. just incredible.

[rusthebuss]

The bad thing he was referring to was the hilton in dt norfolk

[rusthebuss]

what is a 3P?