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The Hillsborough (Reynolds Tower)

monsoon

By monsoon
in The NC Triangle

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DPK Hamlet

DPK

Posted
Posted

Both Jones and Dana make good arguements, but we all know deep down that whether this project gets a renewal past its deadline is really a mute issue. Nothing is going to spring up there for a while, even if we got a new developer they'd still be in the same mess financially. If the economy wasn't so problematic right now I'd be all for cutting our losses with Reynolds. Now you almost have to think if it's worth it.

Maybe put a catch-22 on this site. Tell Reynolds he can keep trying to secure funding, but until he is good to go open the floor to everyone else. A race perhaps? :lol: Craziness I know.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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The Soleil guys decided to bail on the 3 to 2 room conversion that got them a Westin flag to fly in front of their hotel. Only when someone found the crazy zoning did they change their game plan and try to sell $600/square foot condos in a non-existent ultra luxury condo market. There is a need for high end hotel rooms, though not necessarily deep in the Crabtree Valley. Site 4 and the Hillsborough/Dawson/Morgan site are not in a flood plain *and* are part of an urban fabric that can support a reduced dependency on personal transportation.

I don't know the Umstead's occupancy rate, but the market will soon have several additional options in the RTP Westin and North Hills Rennisance properties. As for hotel demand downtown, occupancy rates have gone *up* without a convention center. Events already booked in the new CC will increase demand over and above traffic generated by the new businesses that have lowered downtown's office vacancy rate.

With Campbell Law moving in across Dawson, there will be an increased demand for apartments, condos, hotel rooms and/or office space. After redevloping the three parking lots south of The Hillsborough into the Dawson at Morgan, Hue, and Park Deveraux, putting a parking lot on this space will be taking a small step backwards.

I'd have more faith in the Reyonlds if they did a better job of marketing the Quorum Center condos. I have faith in Empire/Greg Hatem because of his stellar track record downtown. I don't have faith in the Soleil Group due to their "silent partnership" in the former hotel falling apart on Capitol Blvd.

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Subway Scoundrel Hamlet

Subway Scoundrel

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Posted
The Soleil guys decided to bail on the 3 to 2 room conversion that got them a Westin flag to fly in front of their hotel. Only when someone found the crazy zoning did they change their game plan and try to sell $600/square foot condos in a non-existent ultra luxury condo market. There is a need for high end hotel rooms, though not necessarily deep in the Crabtree Valley. Site 4 and the Hillsborough/Dawson/Morgan site are not in a flood plain *and* are part of an urban fabric that can support a reduced dependency on personal transportation.

I don't know the Umstead's occupancy rate, but the market will soon have several additional options in the RTP Westin and North Hills Rennisance properties. As for hotel demand downtown, occupancy rates have gone *up* without a convention center. Events already booked in the new CC will increase demand over and above traffic generated by the new businesses that have lowered downtown's office vacancy rate.

With Campbell Law moving in across Dawson, there will be an increased demand for apartments, condos, hotel rooms and/or office space. After redevloping the three parking lots south of The Hillsborough into the Dawson at Morgan, Hue, and Park Deveraux, putting a parking lot on this space will be taking a small step backwards.

I'd have more faith in the Reyonlds if they did a better job of marketing the Quorum Center condos. I have faith in Empire/Greg Hatem because of his stellar track record downtown. I don't have faith in the Soleil Group due to their "silent partnership" in the former hotel falling apart on Capitol Blvd.

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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So when the Soleil guys are stalled, while trying to address overwhelming demand for high-end hotel space in the Crabtree area, everyone rolls their eyes and calls them stupid. When the downtown projects are in the SAME position, yet with no proven hotel demand, we should give them more time and cry rivers for them because they are victims of greedy people's overzealous investing a few years ago.
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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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The Crabtreee Valley area is not the same as "deep in the Crabtree Valley".

With guests accessing the Westin by personal transport or taxi, it could be just as convenient/whatever to build it on several easily developable parcels that are off the Valley floor:

- Crabtree Town Center (or whatever they're calling these days)

- Kidds Hill - may be shorter, but could be more exclusive

- Replace one of the hotels on the hill between Ridge and 440

- just inside the beltline on Glenwood (already been hinted by the devlopers there)

- in place of the apartments west of Lead Mine north of Glenwood.

- behind the Circuit City on Creedmoor, in place of the one story cheapish offices.

The *only* reason Soleil "has" to be built in its current location is so they can build expensive condos few people wanted in a booming market and no one wants in the rough one we have today.

In contrast, The Hillsborough could be a mix of retail, offices, apartments, condos, or hotel (ROACH? lol) and fit in with the surroundings. If the Mint, Poole's Diner, Fins, Second Empire, 42nd Street Oyster Bar, Vin, and room for more aren't good enough restaurants, then enjoy the Angus Barn and, umm, PF Changs, M&S, and the Cheesecake Factory?

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miamiblue Whistle-Stop

miamiblue

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Looks like financing has become an issue for this project.

From http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3456379/:

City Manager Russell Allen, who twice this summer failed to convince the City Council to void a contract with a developer over a proposed downtown tower, has recommended that the city's contract for another downtown project be terminated.

The council is expected to vote Tuesday on whether to end the city's deal with Raleigh lawyer Ted Reynolds for The Hillsborough, a 23-story mix of retail shops, a hotel and condominiums at the corner of Dawson and Hillsborough streets.

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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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Council unanimously approved an extension for Reynolds. They must sign a new development agreement with the city within 30 days, obtain complete financing by Dec 1, and begin construction within 60 days after that (Feb 1, 2009).

A regional rep from Regions Bank said that some aspects of the project had been secured, but dealing with the residential component was outstanding (I didn't follow the details, but it had to do with "take downs"). Ted Reynolds was confident that they would have it this fall. It was probably a good move by Reynolds to have a financier available to speak for them as a measure of some progress.

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DwnTwnRaleighGuy Hamlet

DwnTwnRaleighGuy

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Did anyone else see the 5:30/6pm news/wral last night? It mentioned this project, however I think that they may have mixed up there stories. They showed a pic of the just approved student housing project. But said that the city is selling the land at Dawson and Hilsbourgh st to Reynolds for about 4 million and that the sale would go through by the end of Oct?

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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Campbell Law is going to come online in less than a year -- Fall 2009. It is sad that there are no upscale apartments available nearby until you get to the Tucker (under construction) or apartments on Hillsborough Street near St. Marys.

There may be some condos for rent in the Dawson at Morgan, Hue, and Park Deveraux. Would it be easier to get financing for the Hillsborough to put apartments in the office/hotel/retail mix and then sell them as condos once the area can absorb more units after RBC, West at North, 222, Bloomsbury, etc. sell theirs.

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Transplant Hamlet

Transplant

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Posted

There was a blurb about this project on WRAL the other night. The rendering shown had 2-10 story structures. :( I have not been able to find the image they showed, but hopefully it wasn't correct.

There aren't many sites that can handle large towers, this is one that can.

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Gard Burg

Gard

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This is the last project I would have expected to pull through in this economy. It certianly justifies City Council's approval over Allen's objections to approving an extension. Happy to see the empty hole will finally be built over :) .

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