Spartan

For the sake of conversation, does Horry County have an "upper limit"? It's a fascinating place mainly because it's a one-horse economy, and aside from the beach and golf, I don't understand why anyone would live there over Florida. The Grand Strand is pretty much entirely built out at this point, right? So, as far as I can tell, the vast majority of the growth has been inland between MB and Conway, and TBH I don't understand why anyone wants to live there. Is the draw to be in new clone snout houses near golf courses really that strong? Also, at what point do Baby Boomers stop moving there to retire (eg: either because there are no more left to retire or because it becomes unattractive for some reason)? How far inland will people be willing to move before it's not really worth living near Myrtle Beach anymore? Its easy to look to neighbors for comparison, but both Charleston and even Wilmington have significant non-tourism sectors in their economy. Inland Charleston is driven by real growth in industry. I don't know as much about Wilmington, but I know they have real business downtown and have a small but respectable port operation. Is there a similar situation in Florida?

The new one at EastWest Station is much worse than this one. The economics of podium development is infuriating. At no point should 50% of a buildings mass exist for the sole purpose of storing cars for less than 50% of the day.

Disagree. If you only connect rich white uptown workers to the airport and not the neighborhoods in-between, then you're missing the point of the train. CLT is only a 10 min drive from uptown, so in all actuality a train is not necessary. Its true that the Silver Line alignment is largely not a good place for a light rail line, but then, the same is true for pretty much everywhere in Charlotte. The reality is train is not solely about connecting existing places, it is about creating a catalyst for transformative change in land use patterns over time. Connecting to the Blue Line at 11th St is not that big of a deal. If transferring or walking an extra 4 blocks is a deal breaker then you probably weren't going to ride the train anyway. That said, it won't surprise me if the rich bankers decide they'd rather pay an extra $2b for the train just so it can run 4 blocks closer to their office.

Just wondering if anyone else noticed this on the Station Area Planning page: https://www.catssilverline.com/station-5

Can we all just agree this is a parking deck with a 8 story building on it?

I hope they name it "The Mills at Whitney, by God."

Yes, remove the parking altogether, or copy Greer and do a festival street design that lets you open/close as much or as little of the street as you want. Go here and scroll down about 3/4 of the page to the "what people say" section for a pic. https://www.greerstation.com

Good point. It could still be converted into a park, though. That's basically all you can do with otherwise unusable land.

Yeah, Butterfly Creek runs underneath Wakefield Buick. What'd like to see is a few of those vacant parcels on Walker turned into a public park. Then dam up Butterfly Creek somewhere near Henry St and create a good sized pond between Henry and West Main and make a nice park out of an area that is unbuildable for development.

I hope Piggly Wiggly can make it work. I'm not convinced of the market viability of a downtown grocer just yet. Get a few thousand more apartments downtown, then definitely.

Meanwhile, Delaney's, Initial Q, and WildWing get free expanded seating capacity on publicly owned land.

Honestly the biggest issue I see in Spartanburg County is a lack of interest in regulations that will expand the street network over time, and a lack of interest in public funding of practical improvements. All of the issues most people complain about (new traffic light at X intersection, traffic congestion on X street) are symptoms of a much larger issue - bad planning. Spartanburg County, and SC in general, are growing in the Atlanta/Charlotte model of widening roads to solve congestion. To be fair, some roads do need to be widened as they are converted form rural country roads to function urban streets (with curbs, sidewalks, turning lanes, etc). But the next layer is to look at the network of streets and how they function. At what point is widening no longer a solution? Have you been on Blackstock Road lately? Or Maybe Woodruff Rd in Greenville is a better example. Harbison in Columbia. Ashley Phosphate in Charleston. These are massive roads with congestion for ages, and widening isn't really a practical solution for a whole host of reasons. There is only so much that "signal timing" and "widening" can fix. What happens when those aren't options anymore? Not only do you need to have a network of thoroughfares, you also need a network of non-thoroughfare (aka local) streets so that everyone doesn't need to take the same street to get around. There's a reason that every city that ever existed prior to 1950 was comprised of a grid of streets, including Spartanburg. There are two areas where these issues can be addressed: 1) public sector and 2) private sector. SPATS covers the public sector. They need to map out future thoroughfare connections and then find ways to work with SCDOT and USDOT grants to fund their construction. If you aren't buying and reserving ROW for future thoroughfare connections, there will eventually come a point where construction in not feasible. This is something that SPATS can be a part of, and IMO should push for/lead. The private sector should be required to build street grids that are extendable into adjacent developments as they get built. Building a grid of streets with connections reduced the need to travel on the primary thoroughfare, and creates nicer environments to walk and bike. They already build streets, so the requirement only changes their alignment so that the next developer who comes in can connect and extend the streets. Both of these should be addressed and incorporated at the SPATS and County Comprehensive Planning level. Set the vision and policy you want to see, then set up the regulatory and public funding strategy to implement it. Simple, right? lol.

I guess they changed the date. I heard September, but it seems everything dropped all at once. Usually you get state, then county, then city in slower drips... Anyway, Charleston is now the largest city in SC by a much wider margin than previously expected. That, to me, is the only surprise. Greenville continues to add people. I'd be interested to know what % of that is Verdae and West End. I don't get the impression they are aggressively annexing residential areas like Charleston (though maybe I'm wrong). https://www.thestate.com/news/state/south-carolina/article253439539.html Biggest cities, towns: Charleston (population) 150,227 Columbia (136,632) North Charleston (114,852) Mount Pleasant (90,801) Rock Hill (74,372) Greenville (70,720) Summerville (50,915) Goose Creek (45,946) Sumter (43,463) Florence (39,899) Biggest counties: Greenville (population 525,535) Richland (416,147) Charleston (408,235) Horry (351,029) Spartanburg (327,997) Lexington (293,991) York (282,090) Berkeley (229,861) Anderson (203,718) Beaufort (187,117)

In looking at the results, my only issue is that 30% of the people who took it claim to have difficulty finding parking when there are literally hundreds of empty spaces all over the place.

Great pics!

I thought we had another thread about transportation stuff... but due to a SC Supreme Court ruling (against Greenville County), Spartanburg County will repeal its $25 road fee and replaced it with a debt service levy that would add $12/ year to tax bills. The roads have to be paid for, so I guess its kudos to the County for acknowledging the need and funding it. https://www.goupstate.com/story/news/local/2021/07/19/spartanburg-county-council-votes-repeal-unpopular-road-fee/8021595002/

Very cool in every way!

I love this map. It explains a lot about Spartanburg's streets... for example - Kennedy St feels very different after you cross Union St because its wider, but the reason it's wider is because it used to end at Union St. Fun stuff!

Thats awesome. COL must be working in our favor!

I don't know the date, specifically.

True, but a lot of what drives the timeline in public projects like this is federally mandated procedures that were put in place because we, as a society, forcibly removed African Americans from their homes to build highways. You could start more projects simultaneously, but 16 years may or may not be substantially reduced.

The numbers released this year will be from the 2020 Census. The local population numbers are slated to be released in September if memory serves.

Why the actual hell do we need another parking deck at this point? Are we at capacity with the other ones? I've literally never had to look for a place to park downtown.

Not to be difficult, but is $10 billion not enough of an investment for you? That slide comes from a presentation about the CLT Moves / Transformational Mobility Network, which is literally about investing more money in the CLT transportation system than has ever been discussed before, and 90% of it would be for transit. I don't think more money changes how long it takes to build something.

No, but several investors have looked at it over the years at one point Steve Smith was going to open a high end restaurant there. Most recent was a bottleshop type of place that was proposed right before the pandemic.