nowensone

dub has questioned whether Levine is incompetent or an evil genius (roughly), given that he is delaying even on the parking decks, going to go with the former. He can make money off of those, and has a decade of property tax breaks to accompany the profits, seems a no-brainer to play that game as well while he's "land-banking". Oh, yeah, and of course it will provide more parking for workers/visitors/shoppers and possibly stimulate other development around it.

^^^ Saw the same article, a poster makes reference to Foxx having a personal stake in this, related to Designline, any truth to that?

^ I agree with most of what you are saying though a couple of things jump out at me, one, while Meck is one of 100 counties, it represents 10% of the state population, and is a major economic driver for the state, and arguably an overall growth driver for more ephemeral reasons as well (eg prestige/national exposure, sports, etc.). Two, and perhaps it is because we are transit newborns compared to older-larger cities, I'd say we can expect economic development to be directly and successfully created from major transit developments, SouthEnd seems to be a clear indicator of this (ignoring how some of it has been done in a haphazard/misguided manner).

I think we're already seeing the signs that Charlotte is booming again, just jaded on corporate locations in general, but one that involves a major construction project seems most at risk. We're not enough out of the recession that such an undertaking might not stall mid-construction due to financial issues. Cautiously realistic, hoping for the best.

Didn't know Four First Union was planned at 84 floors, wow. http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=536&statusID=6 shows 21 mid-rise and greater. Guessing this is probably true of any city. One reason I am more an advocate of ~10 stories, more likely to be built and more human-scale (if such a concept is possible with a large building). Emporus has a nice db of 56, going back pretty far. In 1967 Tryon Towers at 174m would have cost under $26million, and been the Southeast's tallest. We we're always dreaming big.

Simpson Lighting the most disappointing IMO, love scrapers but the infill and hotel, on the LR line no less, not a good loss.

In this economy I'd be a little afraid that the 3 or more years to complete design/construction would see something like this fizzle, it is certainly better than two years ago, but not exactly stable yet.

Really like to see WF add the residential tower and this project be hotel/office with street level retail at the base for the office workers and visitors, but not "shopping" destination-level, leave that for a future parcel/project. With the time involved to design and then build it, there will be at least two other major residential towers open before completion it will compete with, but we of course need the hotel capacity. The residential tower on the WF site will be better located with direct views of Bearden and the stadium anyway. Agree with previous poster that I'd almost be happier with this being mid-rise/infill.

The Biz Journal article (link on first page map) notes the other recent apartment projects in the vicinity that would hit the market prior to anything built here, Crescent can of course keep waiting indefinitely, or go ahead and build something that can be converted back to condos if by the time of completion that is back in demand, are there any real design differences between apartment/condo towers?

^ Was waiting for others to chime in, guess I will, would the structure not have to have been designed with that in mind?

OK, context understood now, if the others are prominent and noticeable with the Now Get Lost one then it works. Tongue in Cheek or not though, if the person doesn't know that, then the marketing has done harm, whether I'm talking about it or not. I must spend alot of my time (ahem, work) with too many stupid people, always have to be mindful of what they don't get or don't notice (and other lesser traits).

Will take some of the "colorfulness" out of walking to Panthers games, I always thought they needed to slap up more small buildings for bars between the existing ones for more of a complete dive-bar row kind of effect (and to get rid of the tiny parking lots which make travelling the road almost impossible before game time). Just curious, they chose a developed lot over the empty ones across the street, what are those reserved for?

I wonder how many meetings they had before deciding to drop the "... in South End" after 'Now Get Lost', because ultimately it should not have been. Whether one "gets" it or not, psychologically most are still left with a bit of irked-ness.

Half-assedly having done some prior research, for which I apologize, what are the numbers for street car versus the blueline? Intuitively I tend to agree with his support of LR over this but I am uninformed. I see streetcar as more like bus ridership numbers over an extension of our LR line which is more on the lines of "progress".

So you like Charlotte, Seattle, Denver and Chicago huh?

Seems like both Charlotte and Austin shared a common theme here, in that the fastest growing urban area was also coupled with significant area increases. Maybe I dreamed that. It's too bad SC taxes are not skyhigh, then our state border would act much like a river or ocean and force densification from at least one side. Though overall a larger urban area not necessarily bad. I'm on painkillers atm, I apologize for this post being gibberish.

Saw this, what struck me was that our median income was higher than all of the Texas cities on the list, most of them significantly so. But, unemployment rate at the highest makes our inclusion on this list of Best Of for job seekers a bit counter-intuitive.

I'm not a "fan" of suburban stadiums, or ones simply slapped off of an interstate exit where there was available space, there are too many like that and they have no connection to the city as a whole or it's neighborhoods. I don't think it would need to be inside of the 277 loop, but close to city center in an existing neighborhood would be ideal. The idea of near/at UNCC is intriguing though, not due to students = attendance, students don't typically have this level of expendable cash, but because it seems thematically similar/relevant, to me anyway, can't explain why. If this was ever the case still think the design is critical, ie no sea of parking surrounding the stadium, instead street-side retail, things that make it feel a part of the community. Which I don't think UNCC has much a sense of, but maybe it could help create this.

atlrvr wasn't confusing the different measures, he was using them as they pertained to physical area, in terms of radius. We have a population base here that may not be included in the MSA, or even CSA, but is still close enough to conveniently attend games and perhaps become long term fans. Perhaps.

Guess that reveals our ages, for me it was Dale Murphy. It would be fun to do some site "shopping" for a potential location, I'd argue just outside of the loop, pick your favorite blighted/in-need-of-some-love/redirect-the-direction-of-development area. What happens to the Charlotte Knights if there is a Carolina Knights? I suppose the Carolina Queens would just make us a laughing stock...

@cltbwimob, I won't lie, while computing numbers it did seem we might have a chance, a long one but possible, though I can't help wonder if a low performing team would even come here, I'm thinking Tampa, why would they do so? Seems like while even at the bottom they were averaging 16K (i may be misremembering), they would have to have an expectation that long-term the numbers would be better than the Tampa metro. That is what I am stuck on, do we have a history here that is attractive, or a baseball tradition? Durham Bulls and other such reasons aside, what about Charlotte? I am almost 37, and grew up here more or less, but don't personally have any such connection, and I used to be a huge baseball fan in my youth, I was a Braves fan but that faded once I "conceptualized" they were from Georgia. Anyway, maybe you're right, from an optimism standpoint, we could make it, now even, I just hope baseball doesn't in the meantime become more a sport of the past.

Of the Charlotte peer cities you cite, I would only agree that CLT is peer to Milwaukee, the others have historically much larger metros, and are perhaps only now about the same "size", but in past decades, whose data we'd have to go back to for proper comparisons, they are not. Not to mention that they've been building a fan base for a long time, I simply do not see why we could expect similar numbers on Day 1, or even Year 5. To return to Milwaukee, it is supporting MLB and NBA, one could possibly argue nominal support of the Packers, but the entire fanatical state of Wisconsin does that, relieving it's largest city of that burden. Point being, it would have one less Pro team than CLT for this comparison. While we’re at it, it has also been building fan loyalty for over 40 years. So not sure why we’d expect to see anywhere near the average of 2,000,000 a year at an MLB stadium in Charlotte any time soon. I’d also argue the Knights 600K could expect to see their numbers rise due to the new venue and proximity to the population center they serve. The question really is, what attendance numbers could we expect? And what are the average overheads of an MLB team versus the Knights overhead? I see your perspective on this, the numbers dictate the viability, but I think you need to look at it the other way around – the fans must be willing and able to handle the differences in costs. You’d need 25,000 people on average willing to attend each home game and shell out $50-$100 per ticket to meet average MLB numbers now. Knights capacity is around 10K, currently and at BB&T, so $10 to $15 there allows them to have far lower attendance numbers and survive. If MLB only averaged, say, 17K per game for the first few years, would that be sustainable? What about 15K?

I looked at stadiums based on your size comment, you may be right, many are squeezed into tighter spaces than I recalled from my outings (Rangers, Astros & Brewers), though the shape may be the concern there, I will concede that one. As to the value argument, the key point is the payroll, not the value of the franchise or the property, the salaries are the cash-flow burden of a business such as this, which usually has a direct relationship with success of the team. If we cannot the afford the salaries for winning talent then attendance suffers, and becomes a vicious cycle. You said 40% is still profitable for a MLB team, from where do those numbers come? And what about when those numbers are lower? I went to an Astros Marlins game in I think 2000, which was maybe filled with a 1,000 other spectators, and I am being generous, it was sad. I'll also concede that the value to surrounding business is a boon, but if the stadium is mainly home to tumbleweeds then this becomes a non-factor as well, I still think a more intimate, and cheaper, venue is more sustainable, and as for impact on local businesses, I will spend the same or more at an adjoining restaurant, or even at the stadium itself, if I didn't spend a couple of hundred on tickets. And I will attend far more often and support those local businesses much more than I would coming for one game a season for MLB.

cltbwimob, don't mean to pick on your statement even more, but not sure how expandable the stadium could have been based on the lot size in question, for one, nor how much sense it makes given the difference in financial burdens on a team, minor versus major leagues. Minor league would seem to be much more sustainable, meaning no empty blighted stadium at some point, a real possibility given what seems to be a diminishing interest in MLB and the difference in support costs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For me, obviously this it total opinion, Minor league is much like college level athletics, and I think a much more exciting prospect for this location, and more accessible cost-wise, which long term contributes to a greater and more loyal fan-base. I am more likely to forgive a bad team if I'm paying $10 a ticket instead of $40 (just making those numbers up). Not to mention I am more likely to go for social reasons if the cost is not prohibitive, versus a yearly trip I must budget for. As to the idea of baseball and the Triad, I hope not, I do think basketball/soccer might work, but beyond this, the one selling point for the Triad would be that there is nothing there yet to "split" macro level ticket costs with, from a level 1 professional perspective.

3.6 years later, we have an updated version of this EXACT shot? D? Or Mo, the angle from in front of the building on the corner? Hi all, long time no post, I did take some pics while at the Panthers/Raiders game, but they suck, will leave it to the pros.