VistaLakes01

Sorry you took what I said wrong. I was asking if Charlotte has other major industries besides banking, and the example about WaMu was just a "what if." Actually I'm not with Wells, I'm with Charles Schwab and it was Mr. Schwab himself who stated that we are already in recession and the financial industry will be a major player in the recession. Citigroup already announced layoffs yesterday and Merrill Lynch is in trouble. Actually Schwab has remained strong and Schwab bank did not involve itself in the mortgage madness. So my question is just like Orlando has a major stake in tourism (although the economy has diversified greatly in the past ten years where while tourism is still the number one employer, it makes up 20% less of the economy here then 10 years ago. EA sports and other video game companies and related businesses has become a large part of the economy, as well as the medical research industry, with Burnham Institute relocating to Orlando from San Diego, the UCF Medical School is under construction (UCF has the 2nd highest enrollment of Florida Universities and will be larger than UF in 5-10 years. There is a new VA Medical Center under construction, and Nemours Childrens Hospital under construction as well as major expansion of the areas two major hospital networks which are both among the top 5 largest systems in the country. I just wanted an example of what other business Charlotte has to offer as far as major industries. Nobody has mentioned anything else as long as I've been reading the Charlotte thread. I have a major interest in Charlotte, I've got a couple of friends who've moved there and I've considered moving there. One friend is on his way to moving back to Orlando next month and is giving up his great job, he personally didn't find what he expected in Charlotte. He misses the dining and nightlife scene. The other friend loves it because the crime rate is a lot lower and he's more of a conservative and says Charlotte is a better family city, Orlando being too liberal, which I find as a benefit.

I work in the financial industry (brokerage side) for a major company who has a major center in the Orlando area, HQ is in San Francisco. We also now have our own bank based in Reno, NV. The head and namesake of the co?mpany visited our offices yesterday and a co-worked asked him about Goldman Sachs announcement of the impending recession and if he thinks the country if going in to a recession, and he stated that the country is already in a recession, with the mortgage mess and banks tightening up on lending which spurs growth. He stated that we are probably one of the few financial companies in great shape and our bank didn't get involved in the shady mortgage business. My point being, he said it's possible to see a few of the major banks go under or be taken over by stronger companies. He said as an example, say Wamu takes over BOA and moves HQ out of Charlotte and the trickle down effect that would have on the financial business that survive off of a large bank such as BOA and set up business near BOA HQ. Point being, does Charlotte have a diverse enough economy to handle a major collapse and changes in the banking industry? Thats my main question, how diversified is Charlotte's economy? I'm unfamiliar with other large businesses there and am wondering what they are?

Yes there was, also Benneton, that Fudgery place that used to be in almost all the malls and there were a few other national retailers I can't think of. Also in the Church St. Market there was Limited Express and one of the few Limited Express stores for men, before Structure, now Express Men. Park Ave. had the same and also a men and women's Banana Republic, then just women's, now gone.

I am most definetely excited about it! It is true the name sucks, not really the village part, just I have never cared for the name of the lake. (Lily). But if the place is turns out to be a hot popular place then the name will have a more positive vibe to it.

I think that it will probably be the Dadeland store. Back in the day when it was Burdines it was comparable to Rich's Lenox store. It seems here in the Orlando market Federated has kept the Millenia Macy's "a real Macy's" and out of the Burdines conversion stores only Florida Mall has undergone the biggest change, they carry colognes and perfumes that the other conversion stores don't and a larger selection of designer shoes, etc.

I hcve never seen a more diverse neighborhood than the one I live in in MetroWest. It is totally crazy how every house has somone a different national origin, race, sexuality and income. I've learned a lot about all kinds of cultures, religions, food, way of life from my own neighbors. I didn't know that a large part of the Indian population in the area comes from Guyana or the West Indies and not India or Pakistan even though there is a large number of residents from there also. I never realized that the part of town I used to live in (we called it O-Rico) in the south Semoran and Goldenrod area is hugely Dominican and not Puerto Rican. And in the workplace ( I work for a large brokerage company based in San Francisco) I've discovered that a lot of the new hires (Caucasians) are Russian and Polish and Eastern European. Forget Ohio and New York, a large percentage of the new residents in Orlando are immigrants whether they are white, black, asian, or hispanic. This place is a real melting pot. Do any of you out there think that Orlando isn't about as diverse as diversity gets? The Sentinel has run special reports on this topic and if you read about Orlando in Wikipedia, the description is totally accurate. We are living in a very interesting city people-wise if you get out there and explore. And of course, although it is so integrated in society here now you may not believe or notice our huge gay population, in the top 10 metros for percentage of gay residents. From Wikipedia: Orlando is also home to one of the nation's highest population percentage of GLBT people. According to a study by UCLA, 7.7% of Orlando's population is gay, lesbian, or bisexual and with 5.7% of the entire metropolitan population, it ranks 9th in the nation.[3] Everyone should read Orlando's description in Wikipedia and then read the description of other Florida cities or even other cities in the country and none sound more interesting. So diversity, we have it!

Didn't the Hamburger Mary's in Ft. Lauderdale just close? If one can't survive in Wilton Manors the church st. location doesn't make sense. Unless the city is relying on the gays to revitalize Parramore.

I totally agree, a city isn't built on the basis of the view from an interstate. Almost every building in Manhattan or Houston or Atlanta, etc blocks the view of some other building. But you can see the other building when you are walking around the city actually participating in the vibrancy and activity in of the city. Hello, the skyline of a city is made up of whatever land is available for sale for developers no matter what size structure they build. Everyone wants Orlando's new tallest, but what if it blocks the view of Suntrust or 55 West? Then we don't want a new tallest in that case? It makes absolutely no sense. And then everyone says it's not about tall, it's about density, so when density starts to happen, there's always something wrong with the new buildings, blocking this, covering that, looks cheap, looks to expensive, messes up the view from I-4, etc. If folks from out of town are driving through, who's to say that they might think, Hey let's get off here and walk around this city and check it out, instead of a 30 second view of Suntrust from the highway. I-4 being right in the middle of the city actually makes the buildings look shorter because of their closeness to the highway. If I-4 followed the path of OBT in the downtown area the city would appear much larger from the elevated expressway. By the way, "Density" pretty much means blocking the view.

I don't think I am focusing on just malls and of course there is excitement over new buildings as there is in every city. Ever see any old newsreels about the Empire State Building? The fact is that Orlando city proper is still growing and adding residents while most major cities are still losing population to the suburbs. Maybe new cities are different is some aspects as older cities. When these older cities were at the stage of development that Orlando is now, there were no malls. How come residents of the upper East side of West side of Manhattan think of themselves as living in the city when downtown NY is at the bottom of the peninsula. Do people in Miami not live in the city if they live on Brickell Ave, Coconut Grove, or the Performing Arts district. The city is the city, Orlando is newer and more modern than most its size and I would surely not think of the Fashion Square/Baldwin Park area living in "the suburbs." How could living 1 or 2 miles from the CBD within the city limits of Orlando be considered suburban. Is Buckhead in Atlanta suburban? Atlantans think that their Lenox/Phipps shopping district is part of their city and it is further from downtown Atlanta than Fashion Square. Cities such as Atlanta and Cleveland and almost every other city in the country have lost their downtown department stores, and many are ghost towns after 6pm. Is every resident in the city of Orlando supposed to live on top of each other in the heart of downtown and that's it for city living? Chicago has many neighborhoods that are full of pride and the residents in those neighborhoods are Chicago city residents. Orlando has many proud neighborhoods as you can see by the signage that says "A Great Orlando Neighborhood." Wadeview Park, Delaney Park, Lancaster Park, College Park, Eola Heights, Thornton Park, Colonialtown North and South, Parramore, Carver Shores, Washington Shores, MetroWest, Lee Vista, Millenia, Orwin Park, and even Lake Nona. Even Orange County has areas they consider urban areas such as Waterford Lakes. How come some of the largest metro areas in the country are hosted by cities with 300,000 or 400,000 people? And are you saying the majority of the residents of those cities live in the suburbs? The 400,000 people in Atlanta live in the city of Atlanta and are served by city services, Miami as well, Orlando also. One day there may be mid-high rises lining Colonial Drive to the Fashion Square, Baldwin Park area. What about Park Lake Towers? What about Mills Park and SoDo? And why are most new shops and restaurants built on East Colonial or Orange Ave on street level with rear parking instead of the suburban parking in the front? And don't you notice a lot of GLBT residents within the city limits of Orlando. They are definetly attracted to city living. I am a people watcher and I love fashion and I can tell the difference between the people eating at Chipolte on East Colonial than those eating at a Lake Mary fast food restaurant. The clothing, hairstyles, and over all attitude is urban. Come on, if they live in the Bumby/Colonial area they are living in an inner city neighborhood, there is nothing suburban about it and nothing suburban about the more liberal minded people that reside there. Even shoppers at Dadeland Mall or Aventura Mall in Miami have an urban-ness about them, and they are way outside of Downtown Miami proper. How come Orlando is judged differently than other cities? I guess visitors from other cities can see the city living in Orlando more than the people living here. And I believe that city residents in Tampa recognize their city neighborhoods such as SoHo/Armenia, Hyde Park, Palma Ceia, Seminole Heights, Westshore, Ybor City, Channelside, and now the area known as West Tampa is coming back to life. A city is not just a couple of blocks and that's it. Most of the areas that some of you are saying are downtown or the only urban areas aren't even residential. Well, that's enough ranting for now, it's a sore subject for me, especially when my co-workers who live in Winter Springs, Sanford, Longwood, etc. don't want to come "in to Orlando" to visit me because it is too large and they are afraid of getting lost. They hate driving through Orlando on I-4 or the 408 because of the traffic and confusion. Those are true suburban attitudes and they are not the attitudes of the people that live in the above mentioned "Orlando City Neighborhoods." So even our own suburbanites think of Fashion Square and Colonialtown of being urban, that's why they don't live there and most of them don't even feel comfortable going out to eat at Hue or the Beacon or too some of the downtown nightclubs, they don't want to bother dressing up or know what to even wear because they can see a difference in the people. There, all done. Those are fantastic pictures by the way, and possibly the only thing that makes Cleveland look "more urban" in that picture is the fact of the rivers and bridges and the lake front and the age of the buildings, the industrial look of the era when it was a boomtown. (By the way, it's big news in Cleveland if 4 townhouses are built in a downtown neighborhood) so it seems Cleveland has peaked as a city and is heading downward. It is much more of a struggle to get some residential built in the downtown areas of the rust belt than it is here. Even Atlanta is having a hard time getting true downtown residents in the CBD. Once again, awesome pictures of Orlando and that one picture of Cleveland is cool also, it's the first time I've seen a picture of the entire city core! C

I have to disagree a bit about Orlando not having an urban feel to it. I think that has changed drastically in the past few years. The rebirth of Thornton Park and what I like to call SoEo (South Eola) has a very urban feel to it and although it's bound to change, downtown proper has had the nightlife scene happening. I can see the nightlife scene changing some in the years to come with less seedy venues and more nice restaurants and ultra lounges and becoming more "adult oriented" once the new residential towers start to fill up and the residents bring about some changes. I remember Miami in the 70s and early 80s and it was more of a ghost town downtown and South Beach then Orlando is now. I remember one little shop on Ocean Drive that was kind of cool, I forget the name, and that was it except for the dilapidated hotels. By the mid to late 80s things really took off. A lot can happen in a short amount of time, Miami is an example of that. I see a similar trend in Orlando. In ten years Orlando could be a bustling city night and day. It's happening in Tampa and also in St. Pete. I think Parramore is going to play a big part in the city's development, you can see it being primed for it now. A big chunk of it has become that new park, the arena will be in a better location than the current arena because it's in more of a business section of Parramore on West Church. And Uptown is bound to start happpening sometime soon, especially with the Florida Hospital expansion. It's almost like North Orange is similar to the road from downtown Miami to the Grove (which here is Park Avenue). And look at how Winter Park is developing, soon Park Ave and Winter Park Village will be connected. That is why my friend from Cleveland thought Orlando was bigger, not because of the skyline neccesarily, it was because there is a lot of walkable areas and parks and shopping (Thornton Park and Winter Park and Colonialtown and College Park and the fact that Millenia is not off in some distant suburb but connects the two Orlando's together. And also the fact that there is a decent mall in the downtown area still surviving and also Baldwin Park. Most development in other older "big" cities is in the suburbs. We ate lunch at Pei Wei and the crowd in there was very city trendy like. Which means if Orlando Fashion Square can get some of the newer trendier retailers in there the market for that is surrounding it with downtown and Baldwin Park. The mall itself is very clean and attractive inside for a mall that age and I know since Herndon Plaza has been redone that Fashion Square will soon be heading in the right direction. It won't be a Millenia, but it can surely be an Altamonte (which my friend from Cleveland was also fascinated with what's happening there.) We get way to critical about Orlando but as a city it is gaining residents which is not the national trend. So Orlando has not peaked yet, it is yet to be seen what it is to become.

We do have a respectable skyline! This is about the best skyline pic of Orlando that I've ever seen. Orlando pics are usually taken from a different perspective that most cities aren't. Ours are almost always from Lake Eola which is already in the heart of downtown so while you have some beautiful pics, you really cannot view the skyline properly. This picture is similar to how most people take pictures of other cities skylines. This is the type of picture that should be on a postcard. Thanks for the awesome picture!

Hmmm....I'm hearing more and more about Murfreesboro, my next door neigbor just moved there with his family

I you are talking about the Uptown Wachovia, then yes, of course along with a new tallest in the mix somewhere. Please, just one 40-45 floor building, that's all we need for now!!! How many times have we heard that one? Oh, by the way I had a friend visit this past weekend from Cleveland and out and about driving around he was under the impression that Orlando was a larger city than Cleveland, he thought we had a cool very modern skyline and thought it was quite large, plus all the big luxury hotels down in the tourist corridor. Maybe we are just used to seeing it everyday (skyline) and it is impressive to out of towners? He couldn't believe the amount of people actually living downtown, thought it was a "real" city. I'm not sure what Cleveland's skyline looks like, I've never gotten a full picture or it, just a couple of buildings. Anyone have a picture of downtown Cleveland, I'm curious to see the difference.?

I think it's great that 55 West has "girth." I know some of us refer to it as being "stumpy" because of it's height, but Orlando needs more buildings that are equally as large on all 4 sides to add some true density. Has anyone noticed that almost all of the taller buildings in Orlando are skinny on two sides and wide on two sides, making them not actually very large buildings. Another thing is, why do the buildings pretty much all face the same direction? Like why couldn't the Vue for example face North/South, opposite of the courthouse? Wouldn't that add to a more diverse and dense skyline intsead of all the buildings being lined up in row?

Very impressive, Charlotte! It sounds like there is actually an international perception of Charlotte and fashion. We've gotten that same type of recognition in Orlando and Tampa areas recently also. We are all not just the "new South", we are the "new US" in general, the American cities of the 21st century!

Not true. Belk also has a low-rent reputation in Central Florida, they are awful stores!

No I didn't know it existed, I will have to check it out. What are its major anchors? I know there is another enclosed mall in Polk near Lake Wales, I went there when it was new and again recently, not many national retailers there and not very well kept.

thanks again! i won't feel too bad about moving, i figured both cities may be similar in most aspects (except the tourist thing but believe it or not, there is a hugely populated "real" Orlando and it has and is becoming a pretty cool place and I know Charlotte is going through the same thing, job growth, the transplant thing etc. We are a becoming a large city that is a cross between Miami and Atlanta and I know Charlotte has a lot of Atlanta characteristics. I think of Atlanta as a huge island in the South and Charlotte becoming the same. The South stops in Florida at about Ocala and below that line we are a very huge island with Miami metro, Orlampa (we call it, the stretch of city between St. Pete and Daytona Beach. the entire length of Interstate 4 and then the wealthy growing cities on both coasts. Jacksonville is another story altogether, I'm sure Charlotte is nowhere near as old South as Jacksonville! Thanks again!

Thanks for the info, i'm finding some of the websites and they seem pretty cool. My partner (He's from Puerto Rico) has been begging me for us to move to Charlotte and I don't want to go unless it is similar to Orlando in nightlife, shopping, openess with the gay issue, etc. I'm not a queen, people are always shocked when they find out I'm gay. I'm out at work and that turned out to be no big deal, I don't know if this is an appropriate statement or not but when I've know or befriended people for awhile and they find out they suddenly have more respect for homosexuality because "one of them or a regular guy" is gay. I work for Charles Schwab and their HQ is in San Fran so they have been very liberal for sometime now and have offered health benefits for domestic partners for about 16 years now. Also Orlando and Orange County both have added sexual orientation to their discrimination laws and any business with over 6 employees that offer health benefits are required to offer domestic partner benefits. Also a large amount of churches in the area have become gay-friendly (probably want the $$$). Even our huge Baptist super church would not participate in the Southern Baptist boycott of Disney (which has been dropped.) I used to attend our MCC church here but now go to the Universal Unitarian church, and membership at the MCC church has been dropping as the GLBT community have been attending different churches and this year we didn't have any protesters at our Pride so the church thing is another concern of mine. I know NC is the heart of the Bible Belt so that kind of scares me. Do you think Charlotte is similar in that aspect? Also I've told my partner that their may be an issue with the Puerto Rican thing and he might be categorized as a "Mexican" and he won't feel the same openess with the Latino thing because here you can go anywhere and strike up a conversation with other Latinos, such as shopping anywhere from the gas station to Bloomingdales employees or at work. Orlando extremely caters to the Latino community, in 2006 Orlando was 36% Hispanic and that doesn't include illegals. One of the metro counties (Kissimmee, Osceola County) is 51% Hispanic. What do you honestly think about this issue in Charlotte? I know you have a "section" of town that is heavily Hispanic but we don't. They are pretty much integrated with the general population.

There was an article in the Orlando Sentinel a couple of years ago talking about what was termed "Post-Gay Cities." of course it was pertaining to Orlando being one one of them and although I don't remember the entire list it seemed to be mainly the "new" cities such as Orlando and Charlotte. I remember Phoenix as being on the list, not sure if Charlotte was or not but the point of the article was there was not much of a need for the gay communities to create "Gayborhoods" or "Gay Ghettos" and these cities have very large gay populations but they are spread out throughout the metropolitan area. The main point I believe was diversity and acceptance and even in the suburbs some of your neighbors are going to be gay and everyone seems ok with that. Almost everyone here are newcomers and they aren't really concerned about those issues and everyone just gets along and lives their own lives. Our trendy downtown neighborhoods such as Thornton Park, Eola Heights, Colonialtown, College Park are very mixed and it seems that the straight people know there is a larger gay population in the downtown neighborhoods and that is one of the "city-like" or "urbanlife" things that attracts them. As far as bars and clubs go, the "Ultra Lounge" martini bar scene hit the city big time a few years ago and the bars became more fashion oriented and clean and chic and very mixed. I think they became very mixed because most are located in the city and everyone is used to the mixed crowd in the city neighborhoods. We still have a few gay bars and clubs around town, the crowds just aren't as trendy. But almost every new "gay-friendly"club or bar as they are called now opens, They are a lot cleaner and less sleazy than in the past. And they all have to have the ultralounge which is given a name such as "Hydrate,Glo,Blue,etc." They all have an entertainment area for different types of shows and have the names of those rooms are called "Majestic Theater, Adonis Room,etc. and then they have the cool high tech dance room with names like "The Jewel Box,Revolution,Rythym and Flow, etc. And it seems straight people have no problem checking the places out. They don't have black walls and cheap carpeting and smell like poppers. I'm 44 years old and I prefer these cleaner mixed clientle clubs and my straight friends seem to enjoy the go-go boys dancing on the bar and the stripper show, or drag show, or eclectic show. And in Orlando we always have the Parliament House Resort which I'm sure some of you have been to, which has the very cruisy balconies and hotel rooms, the totally gay disco, piano bar and show bar. The best thing the city/state has done is to make these places smoke free except on the patios so no matter where you go you don't come home smelling like an ashtray. Wow, I've rattled on. What I really wanted to ask is what are the hot bars in Charlotte and what are they like? I'd like to check out their web sites and when I go up to the mountains in the summer spend some time hanging out in Charlotte now that it has become such a big city. Orlando and Tampa both amaze me how much they've changed in the past few years with the bustling, trendy city neighborhoods with the hip restaurants, lofts, lounges, and mixed variety of trendy people. It's like it happened almost overnight. Check out the websites for Pulse Nightclub Orlando, Revolution Orlando,23 Orlando and Dolce Orlando to name a few and give me some good Charlotte nightlife websites please. Thanks!

I just want to add that this is not meant in any way to be a negative comment on Charlotte. Charlotte is my second favorite forum to read after Orlando, I am fascinated by the growth and lots of friends have moved to Charlotte so I try to keep up with what's happening there. I just wanted to set the record "straight" about Orlando being conservative. It was at one time but that is hardly a topic of conversation here any more. We've been through that phase and thankfully it has past. We are a very fast growing city like Charlotte, except the majority of our growth is transplants from Miami, California,NYC, Puerto Rico and the Caribean as well as South America and Eastern Europe. We've had GayDays and part of the circuit party scene when 150,000 homos invade the tourist sector and is actually the regions largest group from a convention point of view and Orange County and Orlando as well as Universal and Disney sponsor events, and is the largest money making group the area sees each year. It is a week long event now. It started out with protestors big time and the Baptist Boycott of Disney World which was dropped after a few years because it was ineffective. In 1997 the city allowed 700 rainbow flags to displayed throughout the downtown area and Jerry Falwell condemed Orlando to hell and said that God's wrath would destroy the city with fires, hurricanes and tornados. It made news on all the late night talk shows, David Letterman, Jay Leno, etc. Since this event happens during Pride month, Orlando Pride has been moved to October when it's not as hot and everyone is not "gayed out" after GayDays. The first event 4 years ago attracted 7000 people downtown for a parade and party. It has grown tremdously since then, the parade route had to be moved to start in the Thorton Park neighborhood downtown and in to our large centerpiece park, Lake Eola. The rainbow flags made a comeback this year without a word of protest and the parade is fantastic with large corporate sponsored floats and is an event that downtowners (straight) participate and love the parade. It all takes place in their neighborhood, the bring their kids in strollers and watch from their condo balconies and have parties in condos that overlook the parade route. The mayor gives an opening speech and leads the parade and always mentions the regentrification downtown was started by the gays and we have two gay city council members. Go to Orlando Coffee House and look up Pride 2007. Thanks and peace and no offense. I was slightly offended by Orlando being called a conservative city but I know it's not. Peace Out!

Orando surprisingly conservative? Our pride this year had 45,000 in attendance, the large parade went through the trendy Thornton Park neighborhood and through the city streets and the main event has grown so much that it was moved to the city's main landmark park, Lake Eola. The mayor opened the festivities, Jennifer Holiday performed in the Walt Disney Ampitheater in Lake Eola park. Lots of straight people in attendance from the neighborhood and protesters gave up a couple of years ago. The city hung rainbow flags from the lampost on the downtown streets. This city is so diverse that it has no time for conservatism. It's like the United Nations here and lots of positive gay news in the media. Sorry but that is completely an incorrect comment.

They tell us that rail stations develope core areas around them. Here we are building a commuter rail first, that's how sprawled this area is, the north south route is 100 miles long. But as far as the core villages around the stations, are they just reffering to commuter rail or would light rail have the same effect?

Checked out Lakeland a couple of weeks ago and it's a pretty nice city and Polk is growing more rapidly than predicted. But went in the Lakeland Square Mall (has never been renovated) and I've never seen so many mullets in my life, men and women! So Lakeland has a long way to go in the "hip" department, totallly different than Tampa and Orlando!