VistaLakes01

That's correct about Sears, I knew it was on that side of the street, just wasn't sure if the building was still standing. I know the Sears at Fashion Square was a stand alone for about 10 years before they built the mall. It was supposed to be a flagship new design. There was a discount store in the building where LA Fitness is called Miller's, and there was a discount store called JM Fields that was first located where Home Depot is on East Colonial near 436, then it moved across the street from Fashion Square, then later became KMart and now is that new shopping center. The executive airport really keeps the population density down in that area, I see even the Denny's has closed down. Hope something happens soon to liven up the area, if possible. That damn airport keeps a lot of stuff from happening!

I remember going to Nickel's Alley, which later on became a teen club, the name escapes me now......and when that closed down, the club Visage opened up off of Clarcona and OBT which was a new wave club, I remember going there and also "Spit" night at club Park Ave. on Mondays and Wednesdays. Park Ave was located on Lake Fairview on OBT. Spit was popular from the early to late 80's. I've also looked at lots of microfilm at OPL......I think I remember Orange Buick being in the Pizutti block, it wasn't very big, it seems like almost all car dealerships were downtown. I think the building of West Colonial, which was the first really wide boulevard with lots of property on each side is what attracted the car dealerships. I also remember the Montgomery Ward store on West Colonial where the OCSherrif's dept is located now. I know there was another Ward's at Interstate Mall in Altamonte, but I can't remember if there was a Montgomery Ward in Orlando before west Colonial. I believe the downtown Sears was located on Robinson, but not quite sure. I know it was off of Orange a bit.....

It seems businesses on the south side of East Colonial in the Bennet Road area have always struggled. That huge Colonial Promenade shopping center has never been a success and has always had problems. That was built in a field that used to be airport property. The whole Fashion Square district probably doesn't have the population density needed to survive. Since the bulk of east side suburban population is in Waterford Lakes area, I'm sure the development of Waterford has helped lead to the decline in east Colonial businesses closer to town. Today yahoo has an article about America's most struggling malls and the most successful. Fashion Square was not on either list, but Millenia was listed as one of the most successful. West Palm Beach mall was listed as one of the worst, probably because of it's close location to downtown. With a Macy's downtown and then the opening up of the Mall at Wellington Green in the western suburbs, it looks like it could be a Fashion Square type situation.

If you go to Glimcher :Properties website and pull up Dayton Mall, you will see that that mall has a DSW as an anchor.

I've always thought there should be some sort of people mover or Lymmo service linking downtown, Colonial Plaza, Fashion Square and Park Ave and WP Village. We need some sort of "Retail Connector System." It could link up the parks also, like Lake Eola and Central Park in WP. It's time to incorporate East Colonial into more of a pedestrian friendly shopping district and make it part of the city.

Great pics! How is the progress of the VA Medical Center going?

From what I understand Maitland Blvd. was supposed to connect to Red Bug, but the neighborhood opposition won out.

I know the history of Colonial Plaza (it was a field of dairy cows for TG Lee before it was built) What I'm trying to say is when The Plaza and later Fashion Square were built, people from the region drove IN to town to shop, not out of town to shop. I used to go to JCPenney, Sears, and Ivey's downtown with my parents, and even to Winn Dixie on Rosalind St. Penney's moved to Winter Park, as well as Ivey's,Belk was new to Orlando at Colonial Plaza as well as Jordan Marsh. Jordan Marsh was built in similar style to downtown locations in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. But just as we went IN to Orlando when the stores were on Orange, people still came in to Orlando to go to these 3 malls. The only suburban mall was Altamonte, a city built with 70's style subdivisions and apartment complexes. What I'm basically trying to say is Orlando has always been a growing city, never lost population to the suburbs. And as the metro area has grown, all of Orlando's neighborhood's have become in-town and more valuable per square foot because of being in-town without a commute required to get downtown. Audobon Park and Baldwin Park don't live up to being classified as suburbs. I grew up in Englewood Park which I don't really consider suburban anymore at this point because you are already in Orlando when you walk out your front door. A suburb requires a city to city commute. You have to commute to Orlando from Lake Mary, there is not a network of streets connecting it with Orlando's streets, you have to travel on a highway from one city to the other. I'm not necessarily saying Fashion Square is "downtown", but Fashion Square is located in the city. It's not Manhattan style shopping, but Orlando grew up in a more modern time than the older cities. If we did have department stores downtown, I certainly wouldn't want the shopping to be in an enlcosed mall, but the stores should be at street level. What is the point of a mall downtown when the foot traffic is hidden from the street and herded off into a mall? A good example of the way downtown shopping should be done is West Palm Beach or Coral Gables. This renovation of Fashion Square looks similar to Coral Gables, it's better to try to keep the department stores (and the other stores) in Orlando by enhancing the mall then eventually losing Fashion Square which would mean the city of Orlando would lose those stores. I understand you and would like to see downtown shopping but not in an enclosed mall. What would the difference be for a family from Titusville driving to the city (Orlando) to shop at an enclosed mall (Fashion Square) than the same family driving a mile or two further to shop in another enclosed mall downtown? If they drove in to the city and actually walked and shopped the streets downtown that would be cool.

This project will be great if it happens. As far as a "downtown" mall goes, Fashion Square is in the center city area. If you look at the new sign on the 408 heading west after the east toll plaza it says "Downtown Next 3 Exits" which are Crystal Lake Drive (Maguire), Mills, and Rosalind. It frustrates me when people think if something is not at the corner of Central and Orange, it's not downtown. The neighborhoods in the Fashion Square area are considered our downtown neighborhoods. How come some people will recognize Midtown and Buckhead in Atlanta as "urban retail?" We are a big city now, with inner city neighborhoods, like College Park and Baldwin Park, Colonialtown, etc. Fashion Square is not a suburban mall, there are no suburbs where it is located. And Orlando is one of the few cities to still have a mall open and operating within the city. Most of the older malls in the country have closed down if they are in an urban area. What happened to Tampa Bay Center? Fort Lauderdale still has an inner city mall, The Galleria. The Circuit City that used to be on east Colonial was listed as "Orlando Central." We have to get a different mind frame about how we look at Orlando. If it's in the city limits, it's in the city. Just like if something is in the city limits of Chicago, it's in the city. This project will breathe new life into the mall and downtown residents will start utilizing the mall, like they do everything around it, like LA Fitness, Pei Wei, Barnes and Noble, etc. Right now it seems like they avoid Fashion Square and use Millenia, but they use everything else around Fashion Square, including Broad Street in Baldwin Park. Orlando is well designed as a city when it comes to retail. If you head up Orange Ave north you will go through the Antique area, then when you cross over in to Winter Park, you have that whole design area before you hit Park Avenue, where all those interior design shops are at. Give our city some credit for maintaining it's inner neighborhoods, when so many other cities have urban blight after the CBD until you get to the suburbs.

This is an article about Posner Park that I just visited which is the newest regional center in the area: Printed on page R9 Target Opens Doors at New Posner Park Center By MIKE GROGAN The Reporter Published: Thursday, March 20, 2008 at 12:01 a.m. MIKE GROGAN {sodEmoji.|} REPORTER photos EMPLOYEES OF THE NEW TARGET STORE at Posner Park gather during the grand opening for a ribbon-cutting ceremony. Target is the first store to be up and running full time at the huge shopping center and multipurpose development on the old Baseball City site. FOUR CORNERS {sodEmoji.|} They came, they saw

I think in these economic times there are a lot "different" anchor options than we are used to seeing in the past. DSW could certainly be considered an anchor, a movieplex could be an anchor, even a restaurant such as Cheescake Factory could be considered an anchor, or a Barnes and Noble Superstore, Old Navy, Super Target, Best Buy, even a large gym such as LA Fitness can anchor a shopping center these days. In Orlando we have one floor stand-alone type JCPenney stores opening in some centers that look identical to Kolhs', with shopping carts and all-front of store check outs. We just had a new regional center open at I-4 and US 27 in Haines City (suburban) and the major stores that have opened so far are Dick's Sporting Goods (our first), one-level JCPenney, Target, Kohls, Belk all of which are almost identical on the inside. Also a Best Buy. It looks like there are several acres of the project that are undeveloped, I don't know if they are for more retail or apartments, it was probably tough just getting this much of the center opened. I think things will be different after this recession, that most retail will be more "budget" oriented, much like in Europe or Australia where it is not uncommon to see KMart as the anchor of a nice mall. If you look at the set up of the center at the following website: http://www.wintergardenvillage.com/shopping.html , it seems like anything new retail wise that has opened lately has been very similar to this set up. A "main street" with some shops and restaurants and then a big "U" shaped center surrounding it with the larger retailers. I believe Simon (I know Little Rock has some sort of fued with them) developed the first center of it's type here in Orlando, called Waterford Lakes Town Center, which was supposed to be an enclosed mall when it was first announced. This is the floorplan of that development and most regional centers with the exception of Mall at Millenia that have opened over the past few years have been very similar: http://www.simon.com/mall/directory.aspx?ID=394#

Back in the 80's Aeropostale was considered a "trendy" store and I believe it was owned by Macy's. I have noticed that here in Orlando they have opened stores in all the malls except Millenia (the upscale one.) There is another store called Anchor Blue that seems kind of cheapy that's been opening also. In this economy I suppose a mall is lucky to get a national brand lease. I've noticed that the Gap has closed in several middle income malls and is mainly in the more upscale malls now. I don't think we can look foward to much upscale development in any city in these times. We have a new trendy store that has opened in the city downtown called Forty VII. I hope it makes it, it's in the heart of the city on the first floor of a new condo tower but I have my doubts, there is not much retail wise in downtown Orlando, mainly upscale restuarants and nightclubs so we shall see. A movie theater opened in the same building a couple of weeks ago and there is also a Corona Cigar bar and an Urban Flats restuarant in the same building. We have a pretty large downtown population compared to a lot of cities (25,000 within 1 mile of the CBD, 60,000 within 3 miles but it just doesn't seem like a retail hub. Hope I'm wrong. Hey, at least it wasn't an Old Navy that opened in Lenox!

So according to the photos, Maitland Blvd (429) will also be made into and expressway up to I-4 or 17/92? Sorry, I mean SR414, not 429....

Of course this would have been a much more esciting project downtown. At least Orlando tries to make the best use out of vacant land that is in the city limits. Metrowest was once vacant land in the city limits, there's Baldwin Park, Lee Vista and Millenia. The city did a damn good job to try to get momentum on residential going downtown. Every city has neighborhoods with different usage and they are not all in the CBD.Take a look at some older cities around the country and what is in the different neighborhoods. The entire city of Chicago is not "The Loop". Look at Baltimore, Boston, San Fran, DC, etc. We are just growing and there is a plan in place for the city's land usuage. We should be happy that the city is paying attention to how it develops!

This topic has me very bewildered. I find it hard to believe that such a large metro area full of newcomers to the area still auffers from some sort of 'gay-bigotry." And domestic partnership benefits should be a recocgnizable fact at large companies and financial institutions. When you walk around the city or the mall in Charlotte, is it a big issue for other people tor recognize you and your friend(s) are gay? Central Florida must be an odd place with this issue. Fla doesn't allow gay adoption but gay civil libeterties are abundant, not even necessarily just by law, but by acceptance. In Orlando we have gay suburbanites (no fears or shame) and gay city dwelllers. The smaller city of Orlando and it's historic neighborhoods are just open....? Same as the suburbs, since we have such a sprawling population. Realtors and apartment managers have no problems or warnings once they casually recocgnize you as a couple. If there is a true Gayborhood in Orlando then it is within the city limits and the CBD. Tampa has a more isolated gayborhood "Gayborcity" it is called, but it's historic neighborhoods are full of non discriminated against gays. Hillsborough County is more bigoted, hence the large numbers of gays living in the city. Orange County (Orlando) is so diverse no body has time to notice. OPrangel County has just become Florida's second"non-minority county" after Miami-Dade county. We have no majority race (less than 50% white) and with so many Europeans and Latinos all doing there own thing, sexual orientation doesn't seems to come up. Our other major city in the I-4 corridor (St. Petersburg) is becoming very similar to Orlando, with gays and heteros living within the city as friends and neighbors, Central Ave. is full of multi-sexual clubs and restuarants and shops. The only harraasment there may come from far north Pinellas or Pasco county but haven't seen any incidents or heard of any recently. If Charlotte does get an openly gay identity it may end up like the island of Atlanta. Stay inside the beltway! I hope things start to come around there, I've been hoping to make a move up there one day, but I am just so used to living with the cool, friendly, straight guys and their wives and girl friends and feeling totally safe and unembarrassed about where the conversation may lead. Florida is a strange state, our state government speaks one way and our citizens choose to live another. I can't speak for the panhandle or Jacksonville, butg Metro Orlando south you are totallyu cool.

SINCE Old Albertson will probably eventually close their remaining stores, maybe Dave & Busters could open i n whatever locations are left. Albertsons gave a 225

Good! I thought I heard the Beacon on the news, at least those restaurants are opening at 101. Thanks!

I agree. Except for the tolls, Metro Orlando definetely has a beautiful expressway system. The 408 is looking pretty sweet, the Turnpike, and Beachline as well. the 417 is nicely landscaped and a safe raod to navigtate on, aws well as the 429 on the west side. Many beautiful exways here and my friends from outr of town all comment on how nice they are, except tor the toll, but it is a beautiful system.

It really sucks that The Beacon closed at the the Sanctuary, that's really devastating to me since we were getting so much restaurant and bar action in the Thornton Park/SoEo area. Does anyone know if it was lack of business or the reason the restuarant closed. I heard a couple new ones were opening downtown buth I don't remember what or where they are downtown. I hope the cinema cafe survives. If St. Pete can support a downtown movie complex, then Orlando should have a strong chance. I'm sure many restuaurants have closed on the Westside in LA, down Santa Monica Blvd, Melrose , etc. but there are so many it's not as noticable I'm sure. They have a crappy economy in CA also because of the mortgage crises out there also, I believe they have a higher unemployment rate than us, can you believe Orlando is at 10.2%?! Tampa Metro is a little worse at 10.5%. I think the Florida metro with the best economy right now is Jacksonville with Orlando in 2nd place. We'll judt have to suck it up. The Tijauana Flats, and Hue and the restuarants in Thornton Park and the CBD and Orlando is supposedly famous for its homade oriental noodle houses in Colonial Town and College Park, and maybe some of them will venture into Winter Park and Maitland. I'm we have plenty in the downtown vacinity but we'll probably get an attitude on our nightlife from the SoCal crowd anyway. After all, there Metro is like 4 times larger than ours. Is the Clubhouse sportsbr still open in the Solaire area? Anthing else new downtown that I can't think of?

There should be a group that would walk through the neighborhood, mark which buildings are "historic" work on getting them fixed up, any other property in the neighborhood should be allowed to be sold to developers, individuals, etc. and they should be allowed to rebuild a house, apartment complex, condo, stores....whatever. They would have to be built based on certain guidelines (there would have to be a "theme" to the neighborhood, because I don't see any cohesive makeup of the area. Like College Park has it's original bungalows, etc.) The neighborhood center on Parramore Ave doesn't really have anything special about it, maybe a historical church or two. They need to build a "Wellsley" type building on one of the corners there, maybe not as high priced and so many units available for low income. Instead of Orlando creeping in from the East, there needs to be something in the center, and something substantial to the west. Maybe the Citrus Bowl? And the trolley, or Lymmo needs to go down Church to the point in the west. It has to happen someday. Tampa made a bold initiative when the built the Trolley into Ybor to Channelside to the CBD. The Ybor neighborhood in between was very shady and rough, but now you see the tiny little houses being renovated and preserved, while at the same time large apartment/condo developments have demolished a lot of the undesirable spots in the neighborhood. It still may be a little shady living there, but bold pioneers (the Gays) are working on it to make it livable for everyone. If some pioneers would be bold enough to move in and renovate, others will follow, just like Thornton Park or Colonialtown. It seems relatively safe near Cityside Apts, and that new park took out a big chunk of undesirable area. Some large neighborhood signs should be put in at the entrance ways into the neighborhood to make it seem like an exciting place to be. Who knows, Parramore Ave, could be a nightlife center with trendy restaurants and jazz clubs, etc., just like what happened toThornton Park and Westside Winter Park. Whew! 'Nuff said!

With the state of the economy news about the 2nd tier cities, such as Charlotte, or Orlando where I am at is pretty non-existant. The only "boom towns" right now seem to be New Orleans and Houma, Louisiana, with 3% unemployment rates. A couple of years ago Charlotte was on the tip of evryone's tongue down here and now nothing. All people talk about is how difficult finding a job is but nobody's running off to NC or Tenn like they were. Orlando has some relief coming our way, the Burnham Research Institute just opened with 300 high paying jobs. In 2012 the new VA Medical Center will open, The UCF College of Medicine, and Nemours Childrens Hospital all in the Lake Nona part of town. Anything of substance providing jobs in Charlotte or Raleigh? Would like to know. Thanks

Metrowest is a city of Orlando Neighborhood, it's actually not that sprawling, considering the date construction started. There is a lot of high-density housing so it's very populated. We have to wait and see how Orlando's two newest neighborhoods (Lee Vista and Lake Nona)develop in comparison. As far as Parramore, it would be perfect for jazz clubs etc. Kind of like you see in Atlanta on a Tyler Perry movie. Like Winter Park it needs something big to the West of it and then infill between East and West.

I agree with the comparison to St. Pete. I envision Parramore as a historical district and totally renovated like Harlem. It should maintain it's heritage but be similar to College Park, Thornton Park,etc. Parramore is a huge chunk of downtown! I think our closest competition, comparing apples to apples, is St. Pete, which has also capitalized on a downtown ignored from the late 60's through the 80's, and with a significant residential component close at hand. While we have the county seat and more businesses, St. Pete has done an excellent job of promoting the USF/St. Pete campus as well as St. Pete College (the former juco which is now offering four year degrees), and of course its stunning location surrounded by water. Interestingly, and this ties into what I think many may have missed in Parramore, is that the resurgence of both downtown O-town and downtown St. Pete, originating in many ways from the bottom up, by residents who moved back into town and began fixing things up, then followed by small business owners who did the same. Those are the folks, because of their great passion and direct investment in the community, bring the cachet and the success that are later used by the larger developers. Other places, downtown Tampa being an excellent example, that have relied primarily on attracting larger developments, have not seen the success. There are a lot of big buildings and plans, but there are not the folks who are building a liveable community every day from street level. That, too, has, I believe been a problem in Parramore - there were too many industrial properties and rental properties with absentee landlords for the area to develop stakeholders who would turn it around. Compare that with the west side of downtown Winter Park for another example. The resurgence of South Beach followed a similar pattern. When it's done the right way, it sticks. Try to start by throwing money at the top and you often end up with a lot of drive by buildings.