VistaLakes01

I hate to say it but the suburban megaplex in the Waterford Lakes area is basically what killed Fashion Square. Orlando has always moved east (the city population in Orange county.) I remember Colonial Plaza Mall when Fashion Square opened a little to the east down the street. Colonial Plaza added a south mall wing and moved the Belk store from the front parking lot to the new mall addition. Then 12 years later Colonial Plaza made another desperated attempt by renovating the entire mall and building a brand new Ivey's store (Dillards) on the front of the north end. Both malls had similar retail lineups. Then Fashion Square renovated by gutting the Robinson's store, adding a food court, a JCPenney, and a new Maison Blanche, eventually Dillards. Plus a parking garage. Colonial Plaza deteriorated quickly after that, especially when Jordan Marsh was bought out by Federated stores and closed due to keeping the Burdines open at Fashion Square. Colonial Plaza had stolen some of downtown Orlando's major retailers, such as Rutland's men store and Gibb Louis womens store, Thom McCann, Lerner Shops, Winter Park mall took Iveys and JCPenney from downtown and Sears went to East Colonial pre-Fashion Square as a stand alone store. The difference between Orlando and other cities accross the country was new malls went way out to the suburbs, like Altamonte Mall. Orlando's former downtown retailers remained just a couple of miles from the city center and are actually in neighborhoods that are considered downtown neighborhoods, like Colonialtown, Audobon Park, now Baldwin Park. Although I love the mall, current retail trends are quite different. I believe there are a few malls in every city that are destination malls like Millenia, and Florida Mall, Altamonte Mall is a very urban area with most residents living in muli-family units and uptown Altamonte has helped that area. Fowler Groves in Winter Garden put the nail in the coffin for West Oaks, along with several Walmart supercenters and groceries. Waterford has a big effect on Oviedo Marketplace as well as the store lineup at Altamonte Mall. My point (finally) is that central Orlando seems to need retail to replace what it is losing on East Colonial. But with most retail now being superstores, how does that fit into the picture. I don't think Jacobsons would be a big enough draw and small shops downtown have a big failure rate. Remember Church Street Exchange and Marketplace? National retailers made an attempt for 10 or 15 years. I think except for small eclectic retail, downtown retail will be based (until the economy improves) by SoDo to the south, Colonial Plaza to the east, and Winter Park Village and Park Ave to the north. I think there will be decent shopping areas in the Plaza/Church Street district, Thornton Park, College Park, Baldwin Park, Corrine Drive, Michigan Street, and hopefully soon Parramore. We should consider ourselves lucky, Tampa is pretty much a ghost town due to 70s and 80s office development downtown, souless glass towers, Jacksonville really has nothing, St. Pete is trying but is still in the lower rent artsy retail stage. Plus the Orlando metro in general is a major shopping mecca. Also Orlando has 25,000 residents within 1 mile of the city center and 150,000 within 3 miles of the city center (unless things have changed drastically in the 2010 census) and that is unheard of in most cities, Miami and Atlanta included. So retail downtown may happen in a big way when the census figures come in and the economy improves. Give it 10=15 years. Maybe all this high speed rail and commuter rail projects will push things along.

You know,I haven't heard much about any cities perception since the great recession began. I know Charlotte has gotten some national press on its rap[id transit system and the secret to making such a system successful. Now that President Obama has funded and anounced the high speed rail between Orlando and Tampa in addition to Metro OrlANDO'S COMMUTER RAIL, have heard mention of Charlottes . Big difference is is the nations first city to city high speed rail system in decades.m It has now spurned a 3rd train sytem in Orlando to connect the local commuter rail to the Orlando to Tampa system. The local Orlando commuter rail is about 50 miles long already. But there has been quite a bit of mention of the success of Charlottes system and applying some of the same techniques used here as used there. Other than than not much mention of perception of any city since the recession has began, unless it's bad news, unfortunately. Was a lot of talk a few years back of downtown residential development in "Charlotte much similar to here in Orlando at the time. Orlando managed to get much of its projects completed, they are slowly filling up and Orlando has one of the south's largest inner city populations, 30,0000 people withing 1 mile of the city center and 155,000 within 3 miles of the city center. How's Charlottes downtown residential doing? lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllspeed rail system between two huge metro areas in dercades. Now a third Orlando rail system has been spurned from this to connect the Orlando to Tampa system to Orlando's 50 mile commuter rail system. But quite bit of mention of Charlosttes system and its successes. Other than that, haven't heard much of pereception of any city nationwide since the recession, just bad news if anything.

Wow, I sure am sorry. I didn't know that FLA was considered to be so isolated from the southeast. Not too long ago we considered Atlanta a major shopping destination for us here, it was either Miami or Atlanta and nothing in between. Sorry to step in to your region. And as for the tourism angle, all major shopping cities are boosted by tourism, people travel to certain cities just to shop, such as Atlanta, Miami or NYC.

I think any towers in urban Orange County are significant to the overall skyline picture in the Orlando area. After all, isn't Houston's tallest near the Galleria and not downtown? With all the infill in between it becomes one long Manhattan. We should really recocgnize our high rise hotels around the area, not many cities even have that option. LA has towers spread out throughout LA county, Miami as well. I think it is impressive driving in to Orlando from the west/south and having these towers. If there were a tower or two in Millenia area then the city would be well connected with towers. Also, many downtown towers in major cities are hotels. Orlando/OrangeCounty is impressive and we should show it more respect.

The Macy's at Millenia in Orlando really does set itself apart from any other Macy's in Florida. It was never a Burdines and was built as a new concept store just before the Macy's takeover. You should really check it out, it makes Macy's seem "special" like it should be. It even out does the Bloomingdales in the mall, which is also a great store. Also, Forbes.com put Mall at Millenia in Orlando as one of the top ten most successful malls in the US at this time, and there was no Atlanta mall in the top 10 in sales per square foot. It really is a unique store and a unique mall and is definetly a destination shopping center for the southeast, just as the article states. No negativity towards ATL or any other mall or city, just you really should include it when talking about retail in the southeast. Why does everyone always try to compare Atlanta and Charlotte in the retail scene in the southeast and leave out Florida? I know Atlanta is awesome for shopping, but to compare it regionally you need to head south.

Yeah, back in the mid-early 90's when Shaq was playing for the Majic and we went to the finals, the world cup was also in Orlando. The city hall made their dome in to a soccer ball, while most of us in the city thought a basketball would have been more appropriate. But I see no reason why Charlotte couldn't host the world cup, maybe Charlotte has become more well known internationally.

Does LR have a PF Changs? That would be perfect for this center. There's also a "fast food" version of PF Changs called "Pei Wei", that would fit in nicely also.

If it were in Tampa it could be called "Amscot Center" Would that be any better?

I'm impressed with Greenville! Isn't that areaa the largest metro in SC? Does Spartanburg have a nice skyline?

The name Amway Center does flow a lot better than Staples Center. What is it that we don't like about the name? The type of company Amway is? Other than that it is one of the most memorable names for an arena in the country.

Probably true......unless an economic miracle happens and the residential buildings downtown suddenly fill up. One thing is for certain, for retail to really work downtown, there has to be people living there. As we all saw last decade, downtown had retail for awhile based on the tourism market, now it's gone. We definetely don't need businesses opening downtown based on tourism anymore..

An Apple store would sure help get this place off the ground. Also a Sony Style would be a help. These stores attract people like magnets. It would really help to have an IKEA store across the street. What's the closest IKEA to Little Rock. People drive 500 miles to those stores and having Chenal next door would attract a lot of that crowd. Also, is this the first location in Arkansas for a Lucky Brand Jeans? They have moved into more average centers in many cities. The store everyone is trying to get is True Religion Brand Jeans. Another store with a big draw would be Urban Outfitters.

One thing Orlando has that most other Florida cities don't is a decent expressway system. It just costs a ton of money in tolls to use it! I think the Turnpike's improvements really incorporate it into the metro area's expressway system. Also, a long time ago, traffic reporters used to often refer to Maitland Blvd. as the "Maitland Expressway."

Great pics sunshine! I know I haven't taken or posted any pictures as of yet, but looking at some other cities photo threads, some Millenia pics would be a good addition, even some of the stuff on Sand Lake and some tasteful I-Drive. A downtown pic from the top of the Peabody maybe? I've always liked separating real Orlando from tourist Orlando, but things are pretty much conjoined, maybe we can show a little more respect to that Orlando, Pointe Orlando, etc. Just thinking... I-4 is really shaping up into a huge highway down there with all those new interchanges. And now all of a sudden the Turnpike has turned in to an intergral part of our expressway system. Orlando used to just be "Next 3 Exits" on the TPK and seemed very far away. Now the TPK is more like in South Florida. They really should build that interchange with the 417 and add a couple more exits, maybe Dillard St. in Winter Garden and John Young Pkwy.

Southside Plaza was the deal on the southside. It even had a little covered "mall" section. I remember when the new Publix was built, it was one of the first "super-sized" Publix's in the metro. I believe it has that exposed piping ceiling inside........Don't know how I could forget the name Electric Avenue club, it's all coming back now. Is it me or does the SoDo (southside) sprucing itself up and becoming a new hot spot? (While East Colonial seems to be in a rut)?

You know, our Orlando Photo Thread doesnt have to always be something downtown. We have plenty of neighorhoods and lakes that could be photoed to show that Orlando has soomwthing eveywherel College Park, Delaney Park, Colonialtown, Thornton Park, Parramore, Winter Garden, Kissimee's downtown, the malls and lkifestyle centers, UCF, the new 408, anything, etc.!! Show we are a real city (Uptown Altamonte and our beautiful streets and boulevard; Let he people see more than Mickey Mouse!! Let them see a beautiful place to live! a

Dude, I didn't know the situation was that bad! I hear radio advertisements for "Tavern on the Lake" on Hip Hop radio stations. Will MetroWest become another Rosemont in the future. That sucks because I really did love living in the area. How Wal-<Mart got their sticky little hands on that property remains a mystery. The area could have been helped out some if that WalMart could have been built at JYP and Princeton. I see no connection between the Walmart and College Park. How Many CP residents ever venture past the train tracks to OBT? It's not like it's right next to CP like Fairvilla Video is. It could've made a major shift of the Metrowest Walmart traffic. The West Colonial Super Target should have been built at that Metrowest entrance, or Whole Foods or something. The Ocoee Walmart is plenty close to M-west, with lots of Windermere customers. And the new Vineland Walmart ir right in the area, too. w wesr

Do you man Verandah Park?There's also supposed to ba a 12 screen movie complex; Tavern on The LaKE is located there as well as Taquitos Jalisco. Was hoping for a success but guess the timing is way off on that one. Condo's were suposed to be selling for half a million. Hearde One sold for $99,000. It's sstrang place, hopefully it will be completed one day. Metro West is a nice neighbordhood and sure would like it to stay that way!

There was no Semoran Blvd when I was a kid living on Lido St. Sorry 'bout that. I can tell you that the Beeline Expressway started at Narcoosee Rd. in 1981 and McCoy/Sand Lake Rd. was where the expressway is now and the terminal was right next to the road. You went directly through the traffic light at Semoran and McCoy and you were in the terminal parking lot. (I thinnk Semoran opened in the late 60's, early 70;s)

Herr Dunderbach's was a chain that was in several malls, I know there was one in Dadeland Mall in Miami. Chamberlins pre-dates the Village. There was a strip of stores on the outside of the Winter Park Mall where Chamberlins is located and I believe there was a JCPenney automotive. On the other corner of the parking lot was Morrison's cafeteria, where Borders is at now. I graduated class of 1981 from Colonial High School. There was no Semoran Blvd. My parents bought a house in a subdvision called Montclair Manor which had two entrances with signs off of Lake Barton Road. (Semoran). Lake Barton Rd was a two lane road that ran from Old Cheney in the north and ended at Curry Ford in the South. You had to take Conway Rd. to get to the airport. (Our house in Montclair Manor was on Lido St. and was a small newer section of Monterrey Homes.) Dover Shores neighborhood was the more upscale subdivision off of Conway between Curry Ford and Lake Underhill. If you are driving south on Lake Underhill before Semoran near Andes Ave, there is a street that runs parallel to Lake Underhill, the homes are brick. That was called Villa Monterrey and was the most expensive part of Monterrey Homes. I was in 4th grade at Azalea Park Elementary School while the E-W was being built. You could here them pounding the pilings into Lake Underhill to build the bridge accross. They pounded every day for a few months Yes, I am ancient, I'm 46 years old. I was born at the Orlando Air Force Base Hospital, where Baldwin Park is now located. McCoy Air Force base was located where OIA is now. Steak and Shake still had waitresses on roller skates to serve you in your car. The first McDonald's on East Colonial was located near Old Cheney and Colonial. You probably all ready know that Cheney Hyw was Hyw 50 I'm sure. There was also a beach on Lake Barton, and there was a beach on Mills Ave near the Art museum. And there was also a beach for military familys on Lake Baldwin. Also the Sentinel Star had a contest to name the new highway 436 (Orlando By-Pass). The winner was Semoran, it's dirivitive being SEM(Seminole county) and ORAN (Orange County). Any other questions for the old, wise and ancient??

You are probably right about the Penney's being demolished, I didn't actually witness it, but I know the Ivey/Dillards building remained. Sorry about the lack of paragraphs, I always end up saying more than I plan to. I get carried away when it comes to retail. I could tell a lot of retail stories about Miami and Tampa also!

In it's prime in the 70's and 80's OFS was never "upscale" but it wasn't "small town" either. It had all the main stores that an average mall in a large metro would have. Gap, Chess King,Jeans West, Florsheim Shoes, Casual Corner, Foxmoor, Lerner, etc. It was anchored by Sears, Burdines, and Robinsons. Robinson's closed and was replaced by New Orlean's signature department store Maison Blanche. The mall then expanded and built a new Maison Blanche where Dillards now is, the old Robinson's store became the second level with OFS's first food court and JCPenney was added probably because Winter Park Mall was failing fast. The original decor of OFS was very upscale looking for it's time, it wasn't like your average Simon mall. It had huge marble fountains and pretty impressive art sculptures. When they added on and remodeled it went to the horrible pink and teal colors, I'm happy to see they've got a more upscale look on the interior design now. Maison Blance was then bought out by Gayfers, an awful department store from the Gulf Coast somewhere, Mobile or Biloxi or something. When Dillards bought it they don't seem to have done much to "Dillarize" it, I'd say it's probably the worst Dillards around. In the meantime the Ivey's at Winter Park mall became a Dillard's clearance store. Oh, in between all this when Ivey's closed in Winter Park, the built a brand new store on the front end of Colonial Plaza, and also sometime in the 70's Belk moved from the front parking lot (Where the big wine store is) to a whole south mall addition on the other side of Jordan Marsh. When Jordan Marsh/Maas Brothers combined with Allied Stores (Burdines) they chose to shutter Jordan Marsh and keep the Burdines across the street at Fashion Square. The Jordan Marsh at Altamonte Mall became JCPenney. When Dillard's bought Ivey's, Dillards was at Colonial Plaza for a short time. Then Dillards took over Gayfer's and moved to Fashion Square. That was the end of the Colonial Plaza Mall and most of it was demolished. If you look at the back of the Marshall's store you can see the original brick wall of the Belk that was there. So then the 91 recession happened, the Navy Base closed and Florida Mall expanded. They built a single level women's Dillard's where the current Dillards is and a men's Dillards store where the whole newer expansion is now. Belk closed and surprisingly became Saks, The Robinson's/Maison Blanche/Gayfers store became Lord and Taylor after remaining empty several years. Then Dillards rebuilt their current store which is a really nice and larger than average Dillard's. Then the mens' Dillards was torn down and the mall expanded to the Burdines/Macy's wing, and then finally the Nordstrom wing was added. Also the JCPenney expanded and nearly doubled it's size to become one of the largest JCP's in the world. There had been a sign since the late 60's about Florida Mall coming soon on that spot. Every so many years they would repaint the sign and change the opening date. When it opened in 1985 it was pretty much the crappiest mall around, lacking the Jordan Marsh anchor where Dillard's is, and the only anchors were Sears, Robinson's, JCPenney, and Belk. It was a quiet mall until Dillards came in and got really busy when the Burdines and Nordstrom opened. Millenia doesn't seem to have to bad of an impact on it, it's still one of the busiest malls in the country per square foot. As far as Fashion Square and the departure of upscale, about as upscale as they got was when they moved the Gap to another location, and added a huge Limited and a Structure store. There was a Banana Republic on Park Ave. and also a Structure and there was a Benneton in Florida Mall. If OFS manages to keep it's anchors and builds the lifestyle component their could be a rebirth there . The Palm Beach Mall was planning something similar and Macy's and Dillard's pulled out before they could start building their new lifestyle section. Now Palm Beach mall is in the top 10 most struggling malls, I think there is still a JCPenney there. The movie theaters are new to Fashion Square although through the years they had a triplex in the parking lot, destroyed that and build six theaters and AMC built 8 theaters next door called Fashion Village 8. While all this retail madness was going on, Orlando was trying to get "Galleria Orlando" built where Universal Studios is now, the only anchor that ever committed was Ivey's. Colonial Plaza Mall also failed because it was not allowed to add any more restaurants or a food court, the restaurant Ronnie's had a contract with the mall not to add anymore restuarants. The only other eateries in CPM was the McCrory's restaurant and in the south wing a little restaurant called "The Snack Bar." Once OFS added a food court it was the end of CPM. The developers promised to build a "Marketplace Village" with Big Box stores, but it was one of the first in the country and is not pedestrian friendly at all. Winter Park Mall was demolished except for the Penney's building which became Albertson's, now Publix, and the Dillards building where the Cheescake Factory is and the Loft apartments. Whew!

Fashion Square can be busy and I think it's got a very nice looking interior, but the clientele don't match the neighborhood. If you go across Maguire to Pei Wei, Starbucks, Chipolte, LA Fitness, etc. and the customers are very "Thornton Parkish". The mall seems to be avoided by that crowd or has nothing to offer that crowd. It's hard to match up to Millenia. Altamonte has a decent tenant list, if fashion Square could get some similar retailers. Once a mall loses The Gap.........downhill from there. West Oaks is in the same situation and the new Lifestyle center in Winter Garden has worsened the situation....too bad H &M chose Seminole Towne Center as well as Florida mall. That could have been a draw to OFS.