VistaLakes01

I don't see Avalon Park, Fowler Groves at Winter Garden, SODO, Mt. Dora, The Villages Town Center, or The Loop. Could possibly include Downtown Deland and what is the name of that huge place at I-4 AND US 27? 1. Maitland- Village at Lake Lilly 2. Altamonte- Uptown/Crane's Roost 3. Baldwin Park 4. College Park- mixed use condo (Wellesley) 5. Metrowest- Verandah Park 6. Winter Park... Park Ave downtown & WP Village 7. Heathrow- Colonial Towne Park 8. Kissimmee- downtown 9. Sanford- downtown 10. Winter Springs- town center 11. Dr. Phillips-- SLR? 12. Hunter's Creek- the Fountains or Towers at H/C 13. Waterford- WLTC 14. St. Cloud- downtown 15. Celebration- downtown Celebration 16. Winter Garden- downtown WG north of 50 17. I-Drive: ? not sure where it would be why do I bother with this or any list? b/c I'm trying to take my mind off of the Sunrail debacle.

There is more foot traffic in Orlando's CBD than most any other city in Florida or elsewhere, even cities that are larger in population due to the fact that Orlando has over 22,000 residents within 1 mile of it's CBD. While after hours say workout and dinner time a large portion of center city residents are in the Thornton Park and Lake Eola area. But the CBD is opening more businesses that cater to the neighborhood residents and activity is really picking up. (By comparison Dallas, TX only has 1300 people living within 1 mile of it's CBD, so can you imagine how much of a ghost town such cities are after 6 pm? Tampa has only 3,000 residents. I don't know the numbers living at the heart of Miami's downtown, and Miami Beach is more like a little Manhattan, but it's hard telling if the crowds of people walking around are actual residents or the people staying in all those hotels or people driving in from other areas of South Florida for dinner, clubbing, shopping, etc. Downtown Orlando is not a tourist destination like South Beach but at least it has a large number of people living downtown and a growing number of people living downtown. So if things look dead in the pictures, it's misleading. Actual downtown residents may even work in the suburbs. But it is an increasingly active city center in comparison to even many larger cities.)

Incredible photography Bic! Love the street level shots!

I still think Cafe Italiano in Azalea Park near Semoran Blvd. and E.Colonial Dr is the best for non-creative red sauce Italian comfort food. There homemade Ravioli is awesome!!

my brother was one of the DJs at the club when it closed. For newcomers our former mayor advocated the 2 pm drinking time and made it where a club could not stay open after 2 am whether they are selling alchohol or not. At the time Orlando's music and club scene was hot on an international basis and even lots of celebs checked out The Firestone and The Firestone was a well known name for club goers worldwide. So naturally the club would stay open sometimes till well into the next day. Orlando was even highlighted in Rolling Stone magazine for it's club/music scene. So the house/techno club scene retreated mainly to Ybor City and Orlando decided it didn't want a hip South Beach/NYC or a New Orleans party city atmosphere (Key West, Ybor City) . So with the migration of those DJ's , music, cool clubs, etc, there was less of a need for House/Techno clubs. So during the hip hop craze that took over downtown only the most "ultra" of those clubs remained and Rythym & Flow wasn't a survivor. (Funny that there was never a big uproar with the current city administration when Orlando was a hot hip hop club city for a few years. I think Frederick policies and ideas have helped to keep a vibrant club scene that is eventually turning more upscale and the change in retail in Orlando keeps the downtown crowd looking better and better) But I see more Rythym & Flows happening (they already are) along with a wide variety of things to do at night besides nightclubs , Orlando is rapidly adopting to that cutting edge art scene which provides options for nighttime. I can actually envision Orlando as a city that out-of-towners (and us) consider a night out on the town in Orlando a hip, dressy-trendy, exciting and exceedingly fresh dining expenience along with the main part of the evening (show, club, art opening, undergound theater, etc.) and then some cool late night coffee cafes, etc. before the drive back to wherever, Tampa Bay?) I really think downtown's destiny is about along those lines and growing as Orlando grows. ( I see it as an area that underdressed tourists wouldn't feel comfortable unless they "knew" that type of envirornment and the tourist downtown would probably be more local statewide. in some aspects we could take the place of Atlanta for Floridians who are in to visisting that type of city.) In reverse, if someone from Orlando wanted to go party like New Orleans , sloppy drunk till 6 am, but in a city with cool restaurants and lots of hip but friendly with a lot less attitude clubs with wild eclectic clientel, Tampa has become quite the party city with lots of cool resididents in the SoHo area and neighborhoods surrounding downtown. Orlando's neighborhood structure is different as far as resididents actually residing immediately in the CBD area. And I've noticed the ads for some new retail opening downtown, a couple of trendy and I believe independent clothestores similar to Urban Body in Thorn. PK. I think that is extemely important, especially since they are opening based mainly on "neighborhood traffic" and the clothing represents the type of downtown resident (young, post college) that Orlando is attracting. This is a true evolution in to Orlando's identity as an urban center, this is finally taking place and I believe it's strong enough for people in the I-4 corridor and probably Jacksonville to finally establish a seperate identity between the two Orlando's and like many of us have known for years that there is quite a large city here that is not part of theme park world, which is also a weekend destination for Floridians, a different experience and not a part of the Orlando dining/nightlife experience, or the fantastic Orlando retail experience, or the nightlife Tampa experience, or the Tampa Buccaneer experience, Tampa Theme Park experience or Aquarium, etc. etc. I apologize for the long post and the babbling and going off topic but this is something I have wanted to say and this topic kind of fits and answered the question very very much in debt. s

I wish they were mine, I'd love to have one blown up and framed!

Thanks Stevenrocks for the picture. Just the exterior of the store would attract me to check out the inside. Maybe Belk has problems with the buyers (of mderchandise) in other markets. Even with the bad economy I would prefer even Target to Belks here, just to buy something cheap and trendy. Belk has never remodeled the interior of their stores here that they bought out, it feels like they have no special look or feel, they seem kind of temporary. I will have to visit the stand alone Belk store in The Loop West that was built from the ground up and see what that's like. Even though the two Parisian stores here were not in high end malls, Belk should have been a successful. But they seem to cater to people over 60. That may sit well in a lot of Florida markets, but Orlando has a very young population and is not a retirement center, it's a post-college city. But I was never impressed by Parisian either. The Florida market is different, Burdines did a great job catering to it. Macy's Florida also. Bloomingdales does very well with the young trendy crowd here, as well as Nordstrom. Dillard's does well with the more preppy crowd.

Cost of living would be a main factor, that's why NYC is always near the bottom of these surveys.

I wish someone would post some pics of the South Park Belk's, I'd really like to see them. I would say that the Charlotte store sounds like it's 20 times better than Belks in Orlando.

Damn! Orlando's first true skyline and it's still The City Beautiful! Awesome Pix!

You would know, your the retail expert! I just find it odd that Belk has not replicated that store in other markets. Are the other Carolina locations similar? When we had Ivey's here it was more of an upscale store, weren't they also Charlotte based? When they converted to Dillard's it seemed like a step down at the time because Ivey's had been kind of an Orlando institution since like the 40s or 50s. We do have a premium Dillard's at The Florida Mall, though. I don't understand what Belk is trying to do in this market, it's already saturated with similar stores, Bealls,JCPenney and Kohl's.

I read in the paper today that WP is deciding what to do with that land and demolishing the post office to make Central Park larger.

Has anyone actually seen this legendary "SouthPark flagship Belk store?" Maybe in the past since Charlotte didn't have a Federated store in its market that this Belk store seemed like an upscale department store. It makes no sense as Belk expands that they wouldn't use this similar concept in major markets, especially with the competition. Also, members of the Jacksonville forum swear that Belk is an upscale store, but the Jacksonville market also had nothing to compare it to until Dillard's came to town. In Orlando we got two former Parisian to Belk conversions and Belk is just as dull and horrible as ever, it's like a department store for the 70-90 year old market. I don't think they're going to make it with such odd, unfashionable merchandise. One of the new Belk stores has already closed in Orlando, but a new built from the ground up Belk has opened at a lifestyle center with the stand alone concept. There is also a new stand alone one floor JCPenney in the same center, with all checkouts at the front of the store, and a Kohl's with the same concept in the same center. And even with that type of store, JCPenney ranks first IMO, Kohl's second, and Belk with their wierd fashion sense ranks a distant third. (I've been to the Belk in Jacksonville at the Regency Square Mall and it didn't compare to Macy's to me at all, as I had been told.) Has anyone in this forum besides a Charlottonian been to the Charlotte Belk and is it really as they say?

Everyone needs to read this link from Business Week, then find the link for the best cities to do your job. It's funny, most places due to real estate prices are the best places, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte....all with lower prices but Charlotte is getting to that dangerous brink where values may have to fall some before people can buy. The most desirable cities NYC,LA, SAN FRAN fall in to the category of worst places. The article is about recent downtown downturns, what is really shocking to me is that Tampa is focused in the article and their downtown has been getting more active recently. Orlando, another downtown condo boom town, is finally starting to turn around, with downtown being the only market in the metro with a sales increase since January and is the top selling market in the metro. The price of a penthouse in one of the towers was dropped from $1,000,000 to $850,000 and it was snatched up in two days. http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article_busweek.aspx?cp-documentid=8356625&GT1=35000

Is downtown Charlotte in the exact center of the metro making it more convenient to live downtown as people move from job to job in different parts of town? Is it a desirable place with lots to do within reach of walking, bike, or scooter? Is it the most beautiful part of town? On the map it looks kind of to the north end of town instead of in the center. Here there is very much a desire to live downtown because you can drive to any suburban employment center equally and less distance than driving accross town, and downtown is a beautiful place to live with lots to do. It is just very expensive. If the new condos in Charlotte don't fill up (don't be fooled by the 70% occupied claims) then the prices will fall as people pull out with their deposits, some will become rentals, some that haven't got off the ground yet re-announce they are building a hotel instead. Then after some time they will begin to fill up. I wouldn't count on any projects that haven't gotten off the ground to be built until the recession or whatever we are in is over. But then again Florida real estate has always been boom or bust, the state caters to developers. North Carolina is kind of the new Florida though, as this state is so over crowded and people opt for the beauty of the mountains and still have the beach. In the past couple of years we have been slammed with ads for "cheap land in NC and Tennessee" and "live the Carolina lifestyle" much like Florida in the past.

I live in Orlando and have been following the housing market trends in Charlotte and other desirable cities, due to the rising cost of living here. When Charlotte was cheap in the housing market while Orlando was high and out of control, lots of people left for Charlotte and I saw the rise in housing prices in Charlotte start to happen, basically the trends in the Charlotte market are about a year to a year and a half behind the Orlando market. Even now with the mortgage crisis prices in Orlando haven't dropped drastically, it's gone from a peak of $297,000 and is now down to $247,000 and the national average is now $207,000. Who is going to buy all those condos? The Orlando Sentinel recently reported that the fastest selling housing market in the metro since January of 2008 is now downtown, where all the recent highrise condos have been built. It has made a major turn around due to falling prices and the cost of gasoline. They give an example of a penthouse that was priced originally at $1,000,000 was marked down to $850,000 and sold within 2 days. The downtown condo vacancy rate was 80% in December 2007 and is now 22% as of June 2008 and sales are happening fast. There are now over 20,000 residents living within 1 mile of the CBD and over 100,000 residents within 3 miles of the CBD. Due to falling prices and auctions. smaller units that were priced in the $300-400K range are now selling starting in the low $200's. There are now about 2000 rental units under construction in the downtown area, most in a residential/retail center called SoDo and a residential/retail center called Mills Park. Orlando is in the top ten cities with the worst urban sprawl and 4th in the nation in commute time. So the same will probably happen in Charlotte, no matter how much available land there is in the suburbs. The one thing that is a turn off to the new condo towers is the homeowner association fees which are like $500-$600 a month in the new buildings. To see a link of the SoDo apartment complex which is anchored by an urban Super Target go to : April aerials: http://www.sodo-orlando.com/about-sodo/new...s%20aerials.pdf

Some possible good news for Phipps. The former Parisian store that converted to Belks at West Oaks Mall in Orlando closed after less than a year at the mall. That mall is anchored by Dillards, Sears, JCPenney, and formerly Parisian (Belks). Apparently the store could not attract much business, plus a new lifestyle center opened about 6 miles away called "Winter Garden Village at Fowler Groves." Belk has announced building their Kohl's type concept in that center which also has a Super Target, Beall's, Marshalls, etc. General Growth, the owner of West Oaks has stated that they will demolish the former Belk store and add an outdoor lifestyle concept to the mall with one smaller, higher end department store or larger retailer with some smaller shops and some full service restaurants. The former Jacobson's out of Michigan reopened two stores in Florida several years ago, one near downtown Orlando on Winter Park's Park Avenue and the other I believe in SW Florida. They are a possiblility to replace Belks, or possibly a store like West Elm, or a Limited Department store like at Dadeland in Miami. So for those of you who don't like the Belk/Phipps relationship may be in luck if the store is underperforming. Also the former Lord & Taylor at Florida Mall is being converted to H & M. The original Belks at Florida Mall converted to Saks about 12 years ago.

Believe me, we in Orlando understand the utter disapointment of any store being replaced by Belk. We had 2 Parisian stores replaced by Belk not many months ago. The Belk store in West Oaks Mall has already closed. The mall just announced plans to add a lifestyle concept to the area where Belk was for just a few months. The store was horrible as we all knew it would be, but with Burdines as the Florida store, Parisian never really caught much attention or wasn't really an Orlando favorite. I think in either market, Orlando or Atlanta, replacing Bloomingdales by Belk would be even more horrendous than replacing Parisian with Belk. We actually had something quite the opposite happen in the 90's at Florida Mall, there was a horrid Belk there and it was replaced by Saks Fifth Avenue, things heading up in the right direction. Adding that Saks to Florida Mall totally changed the mall mix, it was followed by Lord & Taylor, Burdines, and Nordstrom as well as several new to market smaller stores. The former Lord & Taylor is being converted to a lifestyle concept with H & M anchoring. Don't forget how upset we in Florida were when we lost our beloved Burdines. That store was us, every bit as important to us as Rich's to Atlanta or Lazarus to Columbus. When friends from other states would come visit, they would collect the latest Burdine's shopping bag, which constantly changed themes. Burdines was always years ahead in their spring and summer wear. Most folks from other states (men) wore the same old khaki shorts and polo shirts. I remember going on a trip one summer in the mid 80's up I-75 and people everywhere staring at us because all of our shorts were below the knee, even folks at Lenox, everyone everywhere else was either wearing pretty short khakis or short track shorts. So while we may not be as dressy in the winter, with Burdines we were always stylin' in the spring and summer. BTW have you been to the Belk website? Is seems the majority of locations are in small southern towns. I still have to check out this "legendary" South Park Belk in Charlotte, I can't believe in the whole chain there is one store that is totally different than the rest of the crappy stores. We used to joke with friends back in high school if they were wearing some off the wall shirt or something and say "looks like somone's been shopping at Belks with their grandma." I know Orlando has come a long way and is not Atlanta, but several years ago we used to make shopping trips to Miami, there was a large percentage of us that were fashion foward and felt Orlando and Tampa were underserved retail wise, but that has changed a lot. Now there is only Jacksonville who has always been underserved but not quite sure if the thinking up there as far as fashion goes was the same as here, until recently, they are wanting and getting a few of the better retailers finally.

Phipps would have gotten Barneys if it were meant to be instead of Belk and the way the economy is heading, Phipps will probably need Belk to survive through the times facing us in the near future. Yesterday's retail report was the worst yet, with almost only grocers and Wal-Mart posting gains with virtually no spending on clothing, even JCPenney was down. The latest report on the status of Americans debt is those earning 30K wouldn't be able to pay their bills if they missed one payday, those earnig over 70K wouldn't be able to pay their bills either by missing one pay check and the average upper income family has no savings and is living paycheck to paycheck, same as lower income. Pretty grim news.....

Almost every new interchange renovation or interchanges are done in phases. I'm sure once phase I is complete, phase II will be right behind. Phase I is done to make it easier to complete phase II. Plus the whole widening and rebuilding of I-4 probably has a lot to do with it, maybe there are parts of I-4 that don't exist yet where those ramps are going to merge.

Depending on what type of event it is/was, there are tons of regional/city gay magazines and newspapers that adverstise major fund raising events accross the country. There is even a magazine that does nothing but advertise events around the country so people can attend and they will travel and take in the local tourist attractions, such as the mountains in NC. But nobody told me what type of event this is. And if the local fundraising group got in touch with a national promotor like Jeffery Sanker and he helps organize a large dance party to go along with it there is a national following of people that attends his or others events and does nothing but travel across the country and Canada to do this. Am I out of line in asking about this for some reason? Besides the Winter Party and other events in Miami, there is GayDays in Orlando and Memorial Weekend in Pensacola, all of which besides being fun are also fund raisers. All have websites and are advertised in other cities across the country gay publications. If Pensacola can handle 100,000 plus gays and lesbians from around the country descending on that Bible Belt city for one weekend a year, I'm sure Charlotte or North Carolina can do the same, or they need to start. It's a free country and there's nothing anyone can do when you have numbers like that in force. 15 years ago when Orlando started GayDays it caused a huge boycott by the Southern Baptist denomination of all products Disney. It didn't work and the boycott was withdrawn a few years later and now there is nary a protester to be found and the Mayor and city welcomes the event. Tolerance comes quickly when gay$$$ are being pumped in to the local economy. I've sure seen tons of NC license plates in Orlando and Pensacola. Miami is more of a fly in rent a car event because of the distance.

Both excellent ideas. That building that Docs restaurant is in has a great view of the skyline from the 6th floor or the little parking garage behind it (across from ORMC) and I wonder if the Florida Mall hotel offers a good "skyline view" of the "other" Orlando as well. And some street level I-Drive shots would be cool also, we need to quit being embarrassed of the tourist part of town and the area around the convention center and Pointe Orlando is usually packed with tourists or conventioneers as well as locals walking around making Orlando the active city that it really is except for being so spread apart. I think Millenia has finally connected the 2 together making more one long city with each growth spurt. Some pics around Millenia or the Orlando sign on Conroy Rd. would be nice (and possibly dangerous.)!

Requests: The new stadium at UCF and more streetlevel pics downtown and actual pictures inside the parks, some pics maybe of College Park, Colonialtown, Lake Ivanhoe area, Baldwin Park, etc so we have some actual "living" shots of life in Orlando, not just skyline photos. Thanks if you can oblige!

Although I couldn't agree more, let's try to be positive about this. Don't we need more affordable housing downtown? Although at this point they are probably expensive as hell (rents) but as they deteriorate they may become a bit more affordable. I'm all for any big new apartment complexes or towers downtown to add to the population in the city center.