queensguy06

Unfortunately, I don't see the convention hotel being built anytime soon. Between the current funding requests by the city/region, and several economic indicators throwing red flags about a looming recession in the next 9-18 months, this will sit in developmental hell for the foreseeable future. Any projects that haven't started construction by Q4 of this year (or early Q1 of next year potentially) I think will be victims of the turn in the economy and be shelved indefinitely.

It may be a chicken and a egg thing, but to me developing Gateway first with the new train station would spur this to be higher density than its current form and potentially add interesting retail. The anecdotal evidence I point to is the redeveloped/remodeled Union Station in Denver. The development that it has spurred during and after construction is quite amazing - it was the catalyst for that area of LoDo which has turned into one of the best spots in the city.

Meh....nothing about this project really grabs me. I'd almost rather this lot sit for a few years and get something that would utilize the site to its full potential.

I know we're veering waaaay off topic here, but I got a good laugh when I saw Paramount Tower on that list and couldn't resist. I'll eat my shoe if that thing is ever built in its current form. This is Giarratana's Signature Tower of this cycle. I'm starting to wonder if he ever has real intentions of building one of this things, or if it's just PR for his firm. Paramount Tower has the exact same M.O. of Signature Tower of how and when he releases the proposals to the public, and they both seem to be released just after the peak of each cycle and involve complicated land swap deals.

"The two companies partnered with Interbrand, a global brand consultancy, to lead in the development of the new name and brand identity,” bragged a press release from the soon-to-be-Truist banks. “The rigorous, data-driven brand development process prioritized input from BB&T associates, SunTrust teammates and clients. Through focus groups and analytical research, these stakeholders shared their expectations and aspirations for the new brand, which led to the name revealed today.” That's even worse LOL - I will say is it really that much worse than some of the other banking brands out there? I remember the first time I saw a Fifth/Third bank with a giant 5/3 logo on the branch....I thought that was the dumbest name for a bank I had ever heard. Another one in the top 15 largest U.S. banks is State Street...doesn't exactly grab me.

My estimate is a best case scenario at this point based off of the most recent MTC meeting notes. The BLE was finished last year (2018), so from that time frame preliminary engineering and design to be completed by 2024, an additional two years for federal funding grant approval and final design, and two-three years of construction. This puts completion roughly in 2028-2029. But again, that is best case scenario. The silver line most certainly could be delayed beyond that.

Just gonna leave Portland and SLC transit maps here for reference. I know one of Charlotte's major issues with a more aggressive rail system stems from funding due to either a general lack of interest or outright opposition by the general public in the city and surrounding area to proper tax increases/allotments. Cities like Portland, SLC, and Denver show it is not only feasible from a funding perspective, but also beneficial for area residents and businesses. I wonder if CATS could fund a transit media blitz in partnership with say the CCCP to help educate the general public on the benefits of mass transit to help push more robust funding measures and in turn a more aggressive build out plan in a shorter time frame. Even if they were able to spare <$5 million for such a campaign, it could pay dividends in the billions of dollars over the next decade in tax revenue. It just seems unfathomable to me that a city of Charlotte's size and current growth has essentially only two light rail lines with the silver line not expected to open service for at least 10 years after the blue line extension's completion, and no solid timeline for the red line or phase 3 of the gold line. Just for a quick comparison to show it can be done - Denver opened it's first 5.3 mile light rail line in 1994. In that 25 year span since, they now have 3 commuter rail lines and 9 light rail lines totaling 87.5 miles of rail service, with an additional line under construction and three extensions planned or under construction. An expectation that Charlotte could do half of that in the same time frame to me is not unreasonable.

Would it be completely out of the realm of possibility to have something similar to Denver's downtown terminal at Union Station, maybe just on a smaller scale? The bus terminal is underground and feels more like an airport terminal, with glass walls separating the concourse and the bus stalls. It spans roughly 2 blocks. Also, I think it would benefit Charlotte to have most, if not all, of the multi-modal transit connectors in one location - Gateway Station. It seems odd to me you would have Amtrak, GreyHound and light rail on one side of downtown, and then a large bus facility and light rail on the other, connected only by a streetcar. In order to make mass transit appealing to people, it needs to have transit times comparable to driving a car and ease of transfers to get around town. Additionally, once the silver line is built, you could have the blue line split in two with a terminus at Gateway Station using the silver line connection from 9th Street to Gateway. This is actually not uncommon in larger transit grids - you'd essentially have 4 rail lines using the same two sets of tracks (existing blue line and silver line) and would look something like this: A Line - 485-Gateway Station B Line - Gateway Station-UNCC C Line - 485-UNCC (no stop at Gateway; continues on existing blue line route) D Line - current silver line alignment Here are some photos and video walkthrough of the bus terminal in Denver:

Not a terrible building, but I do think I would like it better without the top box. I'm assuming it's for mechanical - but boy would that do wonders to the overall design.

In regards to parking deck facades - sure, there is a possibility this will be a high end facade in the likes of Hearst, One Wells Fargo, Avenue, etc. But those buildings are all over 30+ stories tall. The additional building costs per square foot go up quite significantly on a much shorter building not just from the facade but the additional elements needed to build an enclosed deck that @tozmervo and @CLT-704 have mentioned. Maybe Honeywell is willing to pay that cost since they are the only tenant in this building, but it would not surprise me at all to see a deck more on par with Hyatt Place over by the Arena. It looks nice enough, but there is definitely a distinction between the garage and the hotel when looking at the building. And I worry this will only be amplified backing up to the large existing parking deck as an extension. I could be wrong - maybe @ricky_davis_fan_21 has more insight on the actual garage facade/construction?

I assure you the deck will NOT look like this rendering. Hence my reservations about seeing the actual architectural site plans. The photo released is just a rendering...it's intended to up-sell the product. Ascent did the same thing...the renderings were much more appealing for the garage portion - it was even touted on this forum for it's innovation with the planters/green additions. Sadly, we did not get this -

I believe it is all parking deck. From the couple articles just released Honeywell will occupy all of the office space in the building and that space is 280k sq.ft., which indicates that the lower half of this building is parking. I'll save my judgement on the parking portion until more detailed renderings come out. While you can dress up a deck, you still need open air ventilation on every level for car exhaust.

I think people are giving this building too much credit for hiding the parking deck. Sure, it will block the view from Mint St, which is good - but that was the plan for any building on this site all along. The rendering conveniently is from an angle that minimizes the side of the garage facing 277. My other issue is what I'm assuming is an elevator shaft highlighted below - could this not have been incorporated into the Honeywell building?

I just asked a person in the know over at Queens and his response was "very dead." From what it sounds like, the law school was being floated around before the feds decided to go with the renovation and expansion of the current building with the intention of selling/leasing the building to Queens, and the federal courthouse moving to a new location/building. Even then, it sounds like the Queens law school was more of a pipe dream and never really had strong movement behind it. Remember, this was all around the time UNCC was building their uptown campus and Wake Forest was opening their MBA program in the new Wells Fargo (aka Duke) building. It seems to have been more of a knee-jerk reaction to try and have a competing presence Uptown.

GO BIG OR GO HOME, BABY!! CHARLOTTE'S GOT A LOT (of parking spaces) - USA! USA! USA! What are the chances we can get this lit up like the BOAT at night??

I don't think I ever realized how much undeveloped land is right in this area. When I used to go to Fahrenheit everything seemed much more compact. Doesn't the NCRR own the large block just left of the CTC? Also, I imagine that the CTC itself could be seen as a liability for certain developments simply because it's a large bus terminal when there are other areas in Uptown that developers would prefer.

Here is a good article that explains what happens with indian casino money, and it really varies based on the state, what games are offered, size of the complex (i.e. bingo only vs. casino resort). And there are strict rules on how a tribe spends their net profits: https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/the-myth-of-indian-casino-riches-3H8eP-wHX0Wz0H4WnQjwjA/

Realistically we probably wouldn't see a construction start date until at least late Q4 even if this thing is in development. With the hot summers in Charlotte this makes sense to maintain at least grass until winter. Much better than a barren clay dirt plot on the site.

I am by no means in the know on this, just speculation, but I have a few theories. First, for 1100 S. Tryon, I think the upper levels will be used as they sit right below the hotel component. If I'm staying in the hotel on top of the deck, I'm going to try and park within the first two levels of the garage below the hotel. My guess is that the upper levels will be reserved for the hotel, lower levels for the office, and in the middle will be general parking for the public. Really it is the mixed use of this project that I think warranted the size of the deck, for better or worse. As far as Legacy Union, it certainly is the exception to the rule Uptown. The original plan included a ton of mixed use, which has evolved into mainly office since construction began. The deck was originally designed to accommodate the mixed aspects of the project. As plans evolved, I don't know that you could go back and decide to cut the deck short after a large portion of the construction had been completed. In addition, if there still are plans for an 800-1000 room hotel, this might also justify a portion of that space. The Westin has 1,600 spaces in that deck that had 79% occupancy before the Regions building was completed. Again, LU definitely seems like overkill, even with a large hotel in the mix. But if you add it up - say 500 spaces for Deloitte, 1,000 for BOAT, 1,600 for a hotel, with possibly two more office towers to be built (not including Honeywell), then you get to 4500-5500 spaces pretty quickly. Having said all of that, I can't imagine parking in this deck ever - the logistics of just getting in and out of it would be a nightmare.

It makes all too much sense for Tepper & co. to buy this site if they plan to keep the Panthers near Uptown for the foreseeable future. Even if the plan was to not build a new stadium for 10 to 15 years, I'd imagine the value of the land would be significantly higher at that point. Purchase the CP&F site now, sit on it until the current Panthers stadium outlives is use (30-35 years old at that point), build the new stadium on that site and develop the old site into a large mixed use entertainment/office/hotel/residential district. While I'm not a huge fan of going all Levine style on the current site, the longer term plan could be more beneficial to the city than developing something immediately.

This - I've seen a few posts mention light rail being a block away. That's great and all, but Charlotte only has one line currently with any additional lines at least a decade out. The only way riding light rail to this office makes sense is if you live south of the blue line and park at the South Blvd station (alternately on the north end of the line as well), or live somewhere within the TOD zone of the blue line. There just isn't enough rail service to accommodate the vast majority of commuters at this point. Even if I live immediately outside of downtown, say in Dilworth, I'm going to drive to that office - otherwise I'd have to drive to the Scaleybark park and ride and wait for a train all to ride for two or three stops. It's easily adding an hour of unnecessary commuting time each day. And that only grows exponentially the further away from the blue line you live. While I'm all for riding mass transit when possible, there is an opportunity cost involved in going out of my way to do so. And this says nothing of the mixed use aspects of this project. For the hotel, if I'm flying into the airport for business, more than likely I'm renting a car. If there was a rail line to Uptown, that might be different. If I'm staying at the hotel and not flying, then obviously I need to park my car somewhere. Additionally, if I'm a small business renting one of the retail spots, ideally I'd want to serve more customers than just those that can access my business via the light rail line. If I'm looking at two prime locations in this area of Charlotte at the same price point, you better believe that I'm going to go with the space that offers more parking for customers. Just like @ricky_davis_fan_21, I'm all for less parking garage monstrosities across the board. However, one rail line doesn't automatically create the demand for that. You can't build one train line and then expect the entire auto-centric landscape to change, especially if it inconveniences more people than it benefits. If Charlotte keeps pushing for more transit and builds a system on par with something comparable to say Denver (see below), then we will start to see that shift in time. But now is not that time.

- anytime I'm back in Charlotte I'll keep a lookout for this doughnut cart

While I agree with you completely, my guess is in order to lure a hotelier they have to provide dedicated parking specifically for the hotel in addition to the parking for the office buildings. Once the hotel is complete on top of the deck I think that will help hide how absolutely massive this deck is, and in turn will then be larger total occupied space vs. garage size. EDIT: Looking back at the elevation plans, I notice the hotel is only on the front portion of the deck - @ricky_davis_fan_21 do you know if there is the potential to build on the back portion of the garage as a future phase?

I don't think all the towers on this site need to be massive...I rather like the Deloitte Tower (much prefer it over the BOAT) and it will have great street appeal as it is built over the sidewalk and hangs out over Tryon from what it looks like in the renderings. I just wish 1100 S. Tryon was opposite this development on the other side of 277...they would have complemented each other nicely. Speaking of...are there any plans for the lots between 1100 S. Tryon and 277? That would go a long way to extending the urban core into Southend and jump the freeway. Also, what is the latest on the Honeywell/LU3 tower? I'm interested to see how the building interacts with the curve of Mint Street opposite the stadium. Could be great...could be awful LOL.

I'm assuming this is in response to hinsp0 comment "Why don’t you go start a chick-fil-a thread in the Atlanta forum and spew your political vitriol over there." His/her response was in regards to someone injecting Chic-fil-a's stance on LGBTQ rights in a conversation that truly didn't warrant it. What on earth does that have to do with meaningful discussion about the value of urban design, as you put it?? I don't necessarily agree with the strong arm approach of hinsp0 insinuating to go post over in the Atlanta sub, but the point is valid. There are specific threads in other areas of this site, such as the coffee house, to have political discussions such as this. The original comment had no place in this thread and was solely posted to illicit knee-jerk reactions from other users. By your own standards it was necessary to call out as it doesn't in anyway further the discussion in this thread. Prima donna - hello kettle...this is the pot....