Greenville Drive Baseball

[whitehourseview]

At first I thought it was silly to think about a Major League team coming to Greenville, but last night the Florida Marlins has fewer fans attend their game than attended the last Saturday night Drive game. How 'bout that.

[goodbye]

An MLB team will not last in any city with that kind of attendance. Tampa Bay is seriously looking at moving from Florida to a new market, in hopes of securing a consistent fan base. The Florida Marlins were on the brink at one point as well, and they may still be keeping their eyes open for greener pastures.

[breed]

3) how he took time to explain that not everyone in Greenville is delusional about Joe Jackson. I, for one, happen to be of the mind that just because he couldn't read doesn't mean he couldn't count, but I'm still perplexed as to how he can't be posthumously admitted to the HoF with the lifetime ban having been served (and then some). Now that ban does nothing but punish people who don't deserve it. Put him in Cooperstown and have his plaque mention how he brought shame to himself and his team and the game itself...along with his amazing ability to wallop a baseball like few others before or since.

Of course, the game of baseball was rife with corruption at the time as well. Game-fixing was relatively common. The hang-up is that the World Series was the grandest of stages to pull of such a ruse. There are probably some parallels between the Black Sox and Barry Bonds. Both are the results of a baseball establishment that, for too long, chose to ignore problems in the hopes that they would simply go away.

[gs3]

GV News has an article about the Ballpark Digest write-up and the praise they gave West End Field:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs....EWS01/605030425

[RestedTraveler]

GV News has an article about the Ballpark Digest write-up and the praise they gave West End Field:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs....EWS01/605030425

I had to let Kevin know about this. His reply:

Must be a slow news day in Greenville.

-Kevin

[Fiddlestix]

I had to let Kevin know about this. His reply:

In fairness, I think an intern wrote it and posted it to the web site this afternoon. I'm not sure it will be in print. It's really just their way of sharing a link to a very nice write-up by Kevin Reichard. For them to link to it, they have to make up some sort of story to go with it. While here we can just say, "Hey, look at this!" and be done with it.

[whitehourseview]

In fairness, I think an intern wrote it and posted it to the web site this afternoon. I'm not sure it will be in print. It's really just their way of sharing a link to a very nice write-up by Kevin Reichard. For them to link to it, they have to make up some sort of story to go with it. While here we can just say, "Hey, look at this!" and be done with it.

So that would be a limitation of main stream media I suppose.

I got an email from Kevin. He said that he was assisted in his trip from frequent reader of Ballpark Digest, Knox White. Go figure.

[Fiddlestix]

I thought this was interesting...for some reason that I really can't put my finger on...

Anyway, look at these photos and see if you see what I see.

http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2005/may...ppi_braves.html

Yup. If stadiums were books, West End Field might be called "How Opal Mehta Got Kissed, Got Wild and Got A Life."

I don't think Reichard has made a visit to Trustmark Park yet, so there's no rating or report.

Also, for what it's worth, here are the ballparks ranked by ratings (with an explanation of the 5-ball rating system at the end): http://www.ballparkdigest.com/ratings.htm

[Fiddlestix]

So that would be a limitation of main stream media I suppose.

I got an email from Kevin. He said that he was assisted in his trip from frequent reader of Ballpark Digest, Knox White. Go figure.

BallparkDigest.com played a key role in making West End Field a reality and Knox has long been a fan and appreciated how that web site played an instrumental role in shaping the decision of MiLB to basically skip over the AA-level bidder and award this market to the Bombers/Drive.

[whitehourseview]

BallparkDigest.com played a key role in making West End Field a reality and Knox has long been a fan and appreciated how that web site played an instrumental role in shaping the decision of MiLB to basically skip over the AA-level bidder and award this market to the Bombers/Drive.

Out of curiosity, how did Ballpark Digest play a role in the selection of the Bombers and making West End Field a reality.

Say what you want about Trustman Park, it looks better than the old Muni, that's for sure. Hope the taxpayers in the Jackson, MS area enjoy their investment, I know the Braves will.

FWIW, the Braves are averaging 3,294 fans a game. They didn't average much more than that for all of last season. Hard to say if that's a trend, but as mentioned before, the M Braves just aren't given any sort of publicity or marketing budget by Time Warner. And the suburbs of Pearl seem to be similar to the Mauldin area.

[Fiddlestix]

Out of curiosity, how did Ballpark Digest play a role in the selection of the Bombers and making West End Field a reality.

Say what you want about Trustman Park, it looks better than the old Muni, that's for sure. Hope the taxpayers in the Jackson, MS area enjoy their investment, I know the Braves will.

FWIW, the Braves are averaging 3,294 fans a game. They didn't average much more than that for all of last season. Hard to say if that's a trend, but as mentioned before, the M Braves just aren't given any sort of publicity or marketing budget by Time Warner. And the suburbs of Pearl seem to be similar to the Mauldin area.

Maybe at a meetup I'll give you the chain of events, but as you know that web site is referred to by baseball insiders and front office people. So, while the DiamondJaxx were selling their deal to local citizens whose opinion was inconsequential to the final decision, the Greenville proposal was sold to baseball people around the country, and getting stories onto that site was very important to that effort. You may remember the DiamondJaxx trotted out former big league players to make the case locally that AA ball was much superior to A ball. You had Alvin Dark and Jose Alvarez pitching AA ball to people: http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2004/11/1...04111052790.htm That was worthless. The important work was getting the ear of MiLB and creating a buzz among baseball people all over the country about Greenville being the obvious choice among the three teams, on the basis of criteria that real baseball people understood. Once that buzz got going -- which was possible largely because those people read Reichard's news clipping service voraciously -- it practically compelled MiLB to make the best decision and not just make the typical award to the organization that plays the higher class of ball. Awarding the team to the DiamondJaxx was practically impossible considering well-respected GMs and owners following the Greenville story were convinced over time that Greenville and the Bombers was more practical and not fraught with the problems that were like pockmarks on the Mauldin/Jaxx proposal. Anything beyond that, I'm afraid, is hard to spell out here. [EDIT: This is NOT to say that Reichard or his site "conspired" or "colluded" or "collaborated" with the Mayor in any way. The point is that his site, which posted all clippings pro and con, was effective at delivering information and creating opinion among baseball insiders. So Greenville/Bombers focused on generating press coverage that baseball people would appreciate when the stories got picked up by Reichard; while the Mauldin/Jaxx group focused on PR that would win the hearts and minds of the irrelevant locals. I also need to say that Erwin-Penland had nothing to do with that effort. I think they were spending that time coming up with the new team name or mascot....]

As for Trustman Park, I wasn't saying anything about it. Certainly not negatively. I just thought that some of those pictures looked like the concourse and boxes that frame our own West End Field. Or no? Beyond that, I wasn't trying to make a point. Not consciously at least. I just stumbled on those images and had not seen their ballpark until just now. If anything -- being a huge fan of West End Field -- I suppose I'm impressed that they landed in a place that seems on a par with what we've got (albeit in Mississippi's version of Mauldin, as you noted).

As for the Braves organization in general, with Time-Warner about to divest all the Braves operations to Liberty Media out of Colorado, you wonder if they'll hold on to the farm system or sell it off. Most of the broadcasts are being shifted to Fox Sports and the Carays and Van Wieren and Sutton crew won't be doing the Fox broadcasts (which now includes Turner South, which was just acquired by Fox this past week I think. [EDIT: Link to this side story is here: http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/bra...28bravestv.html ] In 2008, there will be just 45 Braves' games on TBS. So the broadcasts won't be part of the family tree. The minor league teams may provide more of a cash value that will help pay off debt from the sale, so that whole dynamic may change radically too. Whether it's good for the towns that host those teams or not remains to be seen. But I understand few people from players to front office personnel are thrilled with the sale to Liberty, if only because there's such uncertainty.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Fiddlestix

[gs3]

I thought this was interesting...for some reason that I really can't put my finger on...

Anyway, look at these photos and see if you see what I see.

http://www.ballparkwatch.com/news/2005/may...ppi_braves.html

Yup. If stadiums were books, West End Field might be called "How Opal Mehta Got Kissed, Got Wild and Got A Life."

I don't think Reichard has made a visit to Trustmark Park yet, so there's no rating or report.

Also, for what it's worth, here are the ballparks ranked by ratings (with an explanation of the 5-ball rating system at the end): http://www.ballparkdigest.com/ratings.htm

I've been to Trustmark Park when I went back to Jackson to see friends. The pictures may look somewhat like West End, but when you're there, the feeling is nothing at all similar. Trustmark Park, unfortunately, feels very much like what it is, a suburban ballpark surrounded by lots of pavement and scrubby pines. Considering Jackson's humidity levels and the fact that once the sun goes down, their evenings still remain hot....it's not the most pleasant ball park. I lived in Jackson briefly and Pearl was always known as a "redneck" suburb. I think they chose the spot for easy access as it's right off I-20. Anyway, visit both, and the similarities of the structures fade quickly.

[RestedTraveler]

So that would be a limitation of main stream media I suppose.

I got an email from Kevin. He said that he was assisted in his trip from frequent reader of Ballpark Digest, Knox White. Go figure.

The elder, I presume?

[goodbye]

Nothing beats a downtown ballpark on Main Street, in my opinion. Ours has set a wildfire in the West End which will continue to pay many unknown benefits well into the future.

[RestedTraveler]

As for Trustman Park, I wasn't saying anything about it. Certainly not negatively. I just thought that some of those pictures looked like the concourse and boxes that frame our own West End Field. Or no? Beyond that, I wasn't trying to make a point. Not consciously at least. I just stumbled on those images and had not seen their ballpark until just now. If anything -- being a huge fan of West End Field -- I suppose I'm impressed that they landed in a place that seems on a par with what we've got (albeit in Mississippi's version of Mauldin, as you noted).

The two ballparks are rather similar in construction, yes, but the similarities end there, really. West End Field is nestled in the relatively quiet West End of Greenville. Other than the occasional ambulance, the only sounds you hear are the crack of the bat hitting a baseball, the fans, and the P.A. Announcer/On-Fiend Entertainment. If you ignore the fact that Trustmark park is adjacent to a noisy I-20/HWY-80, has Bas Pro Shop for a neighborhood, and is close to the Jackson "International" Airport, it's not a bad park.

I was struck by how similar Trustmark park is to what had been planned for the proposed ballpark at the Point for the G-Braves. It's almost as if they took that plan (or part of it) with them and reassembled it in Pearl, MS. Perhaps Greenville, to some extent, did the same thing with West End Field?

[Fiddlestix]

I was struck by how similar Trustmark park is to what had been planned for the proposed ballpark at the Point for the G-Braves. It's almost as if they took that plan (or part of it) with them and reassembled it in Pearl, MS. Perhaps Greenville, to some extent, did the same thing with West End Field?

I don't think that's what happened. I think the Drive's ownership group included the Chattanooga Lookouts' owner (Frank Burke, who had a minority stake, but was given management responsibilities until the end of last season) because they were taking that model and adapting it for Greenville's West End. I don't think a design from back in the days when The Point was up for discussion was used for downtown. I think what I'm learning here is that the views of the concourse, boxes and seating areas are going to be amazingly similar for all new ballparks. And the site of the ballpark and its surroundings are far more significant to the experience than one might guess. All of which makes sense because the fan amenities are going to be a constant -- make them comfortable and willing to stick around and buy concessions through a rain delay. This means once you've found the maximally efficient design you keep it as your baseline. On the other hand, the exterior is a function of how well you choose from the sites that are available. This basically means that the biggest difference among ballparks is most likely going to be the setting. (REVELATION: <where's the smiley face with the lightbulb turning on?>) This explains why Reichard's Ballpark Visit seemed to dwell on the surroundings...something that I thought was sort of peculiar. Until just now.

[gs3]

Great article about "The Dogman". He's coming to West End Field.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs..../605040301/1002

[RestedTraveler]

Great article about "The Dogman". He's coming to West End Field.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs..../605040301/1002

He was just here on loan from Lowell recently (and even threw out the first pitch at one of the games). I didn't expect to see him back so soon! That'll be great!

[goodbye]

With the talk of other southern cities' downtown ballparks, I though you should keep an ear out on the future downtown ballpark in Winston-Salem. Sounds like they plan to do it right as well - and they DO have an impressive skyline to go along with it. I imagine that could become another 5-baseball candidate, depending on the steady vision of city leaders there. It is fun to learn, anyway.

[RestedTraveler]

With the talk of other southern cities' downtown ballparks, I though you should keep an ear out on the future downtown ballpark in Winston-Salem. Sounds like they plan to do it right as well - and they DO have an impressive skyline to go along with it. I imagine that could become another 5-baseball candidate, depending on the steady vision of city leaders there. It is fun to learn, anyway.

That could potentially be very cool for Winston-Salem; however, the articles mention that it's going to be near Interstate 40 and the Peters Creek Parkway. Is that area really considered downtown and are the views of the Winston-Salem skyline really all that great from out there?

It certainly sounds as though they're doing their homework by visiting Greensboro and checking out First Horizon Park there. That's a good move. Maybe they should consider a trip over here to Greenville, too, while they're at it.

[goodbye]

Yeah, imagine what $70 million would have done for West End Field and its surroundings. And yet I am completely content with West End Field as t is and think it is perfect for Greenville today. But hopefully there will come a day soon when an upgrade is necessary.

[krazeeboi]

That could potentially be very cool for Winston-Salem; however, the articles mention that it's going to be near Interstate 40 and the Peters Creek Parkway. Is that area really considered downtown and are the views of the Winston-Salem skyline really all that great from out there?

I do know that I-40 runs through downtown and the intersection with Peters Creek Parkway is close enough to afford some great skyline views. I'm thinking possibly something like this:

[RestedTraveler]

I do know that I-40 runs through downtown and the intersection with Peters Creek Parkway is close enough to afford some great skyline views. I'm thinking possibly something like this:

Ah, that photo looks to have been taken from Business I-40 and South Broad Street, which is very near where Peters Creek Parkway intersects with Business I-40. If that's the "Green 40" they were talking about (and I believe now that I realize it is), then that new ballpark could potentially offer some outstanding skyline views. Very nice!

Thanks for the visual, krazeeboi!

[krazeeboi]

No prob!

[whitehourseview]

Anyone notice that the other night in Charleston that the Drive and the Riverdogs wore Red Sox and Yankee uniforms? Wonder if they will do that when the River Dogs come up to Greenville?

Looks like the River Dogs want to play up the traditional Boston v New York rivalry.

I have a better idea. How about having the two teams play for a trophy, play on the traiditional Low Country vs. Upstate rivalry and have businesses with Charleston and Greenville connections sponsor it, say like Sticky Fingers and California Dreaming?

The winner of the season series get the rotating trophy and fans of the winning team get, say restaurant discounts. Just an idea...