Hampton Roads Transportation

[wrldcoupe4]

So are you saying that Richmond doesn't control where the money gets distributed to??? VDOT has control of the funds and there for Richmond has control of the funds!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry rus your wrong. Congress didn't just write a check to VDOT. The money has to be used for its specific purposes. Don't worry. greeded, horrible, evil, controlfreak richmond must sit on the sidelines this time. And I wish you would say the State goverment instead of richmond. I'm sure Wilder doesn't have a big stack of gold coins in his office that belong to HR. You'd be wise to visit the link that details the breakdown of the funds. The Richmond metro got $10 million dollars. Compare that to what HR got. $100 million give or take.

[rusthebuss]

sorry rus your wrong. Congress didn't just write a check to VDOT. The money has to be used for its specific purposes. Don't worry. greeded, horrible, evil, controlfreak richmond must sit on the sidelines this time. And I wish you would say the State goverment instead of richmond. I'm sure Wilder doesn't have a big stack of gold coins in his office that belong to HR. You'd be wise to visit the link that details the breakdown of the funds. The Richmond metro got $10 million dollars. Compare that to what HR got. $100 million give or take.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude I'll let this go but its easy to not see the things that go on in this state if you weren't on the other side of things. Unlike most of these guys that live here now, I've been here all my life and watched some of the corrupt crap go towards this region of the state. Even Mayor Wilder has noted that the Norfolk area has been neglected by the state.

[rusthebuss]

Possible new interchange at I-64: New Interchange

[okinawatyphoon]

Possible new interchange at  I-64: New Interchange

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm asking because I haven't been on Hampton Roads's roads in years. Is this interchange necessary and the best way to spend this $10 million?

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I'm asking because I haven't been on Hampton Roads's roads in years. Is this interchange necessary and the best way to spend this $10 million?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rawr, that link isn't working for me... is that the Bland Boulevard interchange?

[500 posts!!! ]

Edited August 4, 2005 by PeninsulaKiddo

[hoobo]

Rawr, that link isn't working for me... is that the Bland Boulevard interchange?

[500 posts!!!  ]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it's a proposed interchange at the CBN property in VB halfway between the Indian River and Greenbriar exits. CBN has a plan to build homes, shops, and 1.5 million sqft of office space (same ammount as TC or Lynnhaven) on 500 acres and to extend a road to Centerville Tpke to relieve traffic on Indian River and Greenbriar (as if more homes and businesses won't have any effect). The thing is, no study has been done by the FHA, VDOT, or the Hampton Roads Planning Commission. So this is money for a non-existent project which would've been put to better use at the Whichduck exit. Basically, it's a case of political favors as Robertson is a big contributor to the campaigns of the congressmen who proposed adding this bit of funding. Here's the link:

Proposed Interchange

[PeninsulaKiddo]

No, it's a proposed interchange at the CBN property in VB halfway between the Indian River and Greenbriar exits.

Edited August 4, 2005 by PeninsulaKiddo

[vdogg]

For all my personal loathing of Pat Robertson and CBN, their proposed project is a big one and could definitely benefit Virginia Beach and all of Hampton Roads.  It's a huge investment and I'm glad that someone is willing to put forth so much money...

The importance of that project, however, is easily debateable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When we have trouble funding other far more important road projects I take issue with Pat Robertson being able to dictate our transportation agenda. Until we get full funding for all the other projects in the area they shouldn't receive a dime for this. Also, if this is to benefit some huge, suburban development , I have trouble finding the benefit of such a project. Does anyone have any details/renderings of what Pat is trying to do? I have serious misgivings about throwing taxpayer dollars at this project.

[urbanfan]

When we have trouble funding other far more important road projects I take issue with Pat Robertson being able to dictate our transportation agenda. Until we get full funding for all the other projects in the area they shouldn't receive a dime for this. Also, if this is to benefit some huge, suburban development , I have trouble finding the benefit of such a project. Does anyone have any details/renderings of what Pat is trying to do? I have serious misgivings about throwing taxpayer dollars at this project.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The difference here is that private money is being payed to build this interchange. Also, millions of dollars of tax revenue could potentially come from this if it is successful. If the man puts up his own money I say fine. At least somebody cares. This in no way detracts from any project that is on the table now. Pat Robertson went after federal money on his own, and is willing to put up his own money and that of the contractor and builder to make this a reality. I say that is the best thing I've ever heard. How many other developers do you know who build a huge development and offer to pay for roadwork. I can't say that there are any. If more projects around the city were required to pay for necessary roadway improvements than we wouldn't be in the jam were in. People come here, build, and leave the city to deal with traffic. I applaud Pat and his contractors and wish more people were willing to put there money where there mouth is.

[hoobo]

The difference here is that private money is being payed to build this interchange.  Also, millions of dollars of tax revenue could potentially come from this if it is successful.  If the man puts up his own money I say fine.  At least somebody cares.  This in no way detracts from any project that is on the table now.  Pat Robertson went after federal money on his own, and is willing to put up his own money and that of the contractor and builder to make this a reality.  I say that is the best thing I've ever heard.  How many other developers do you know who build a huge development and offer to pay for roadwork.  I can't say that there are any.  If more projects around the city were required to pay for necessary roadway improvements than we wouldn't be in the jam were in.  People come here, build, and leave the city to deal with traffic.  I applaud Pat and his contractors and wish more people were willing to put there money where there mouth is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine, however there isn't even a proposed interchange there. The FHA, VDOT, and Hampton Roads Planning Commission all have to study it and sign off on the project. The CBN project hasn't even been revealed. What's more, the project site could be accessed from Centerville Turnpike. Pat doesn't need highway access. If he wants it, let him pay for it. There are plenty of more pressing road projects in VB and Cpeake (deteriorating bridges, Witchduck and Indy interchanges with 264, congestion in Greenbriar, etc.) towards which the money could be better used.

[sugoiben]

That's fine, however there isn't even a proposed interchange there.  The FHA, VDOT, and Hampton Roads Planning Commission all have to study it and sign off on the project.  The CBN project hasn't even been revealed.  What's more, the project site could be accessed from Centerville Turnpike.  Pat doesn't need highway access.  If he wants it, let him pay for it.  There are plenty of more pressing road projects in VB and Cpeake (deteriorating bridges, Witchduck and Indy interchanges with 264, congestion in Greenbriar, etc.) towards which the money could be better used.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's is going to be mostly paying for it. I think the article said the full cost of the interchange was something like $30 or $40 million, and the fed is paying only $10 million. The rest is is from Robertson/CBN's pocket. If that's the case, that more than not too bad really. As long as the development is somethign nice then why not. Hopefully it'll be a nice dense mixed use development.

That's not to say I'm completely ok with the fact that he went to congress and lobbied for this thing. Admirable in some respects perhaps. But at the same time there are proper channels to go thru to get something like this built. Such as proposing your design to the cities and VDOT and the Hampton Roads Planning Commission. Take it thru the proper channels and do it right, instead of flaunting your lobbying power by going right to the top and getting money. He would have raised a lot less eyebrows that way.

[rusthebuss]

He didn't go through those channels because it could have gotten stalled for years and he wanted to get the project moving. I think its a good thing and it should have an exit and entrance on the interstate. If you have ever gotten off at Indian River or Greenbrier you would apprectiate this project. Most of the people that get off of these exits are turning on to Centerville rd anyways and thats what causes alot of the back ups. He is paying 3/4 of the bill and I honestly think most of the outrage against this project is because its Pat Robertson. If buddy decided to do this everyone would be all for it.

[hoobo]

He's is going to be mostly paying for it.  I think the article said the full cost of the interchange was something like $30 or $40 million, and the fed is paying only $10 million.  The rest is is from Robertson/CBN's pocket.  If that's the case, that more than not too bad really.  As long as the development is somethign nice then why not.  Hopefully it'll be a nice dense mixed use development.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He didn't go through those channels because it could have gotten stalled for years and he wanted to get the project moving. I think its a good thing and it should have an exit and entrance on the interstate. If you have ever gotten off at Indian River or Greenbrier you would apprectiate this project. Most of the people that get off of these exits are turning on to Centerville rd anyways and thats what causes alot of the back ups. He is paying 3/4 of the bill and I honestly think most of the outrage against this project is because its Pat Robertson. If buddy decided to do this everyone would be all for it.

"The interchange itself could cost between $30 million and $40 million, Morse said. Typically, most of the cost of such projects is paid for with federal tax dollars, with some contribution from the state. But Morse said that developers are expected to also contribute some of the interchange cost to accelerate the overall project."

Where did it say that CBN was paying for most of it? The article says CBN is paying $500,000 to have a study to see if an interchange CAN be placed there in accordance with FHA guidelines. The above paragraph states that the bill earmarks 1/4 to 1/3 of the project cost. The rest falls on more federal and state funding. The developers will get the government to pay as much as possible before they kick in anything. What kind of business would pony up money without first squeezing the government (i.e. the taxpayers) of everything they have? Virginia Beach and Chesapeake probably won't approve the project unless an interchange is built to prevent further on Indian River. That's the only reason why the developers would offer to help pay for an interchange.

And to think this project will alleviate traffic is ridiculous. How do you alleviate traffic by building more homes, offices, and retail centers?

Edited August 4, 2005 by hoobo

[sugoiben]

Where did it say that CBN was paying for most of it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I think Russ may have been right in that the fact that it is Pat Robertson behind this, maybe it's coloring people's opinions against him... I can see that there are much more needed projects than a new interchange into a new neighborhood, but I don't think it's fair to say that Pat shouldn't have his interchange built if he went to the trouble of getting some money for it and is willing to find financing for 3/4 the cost. Honestly, I think it's shameful that one man can get the funding, but the leaders in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake can't get it combined for much more needed projects. It isn't Pat's responsibility to spend his time worrying about projects like Witchduck (sp?) when it has nothing to do with him. He got the money, which is really the only important thing in the end...

[rusthebuss]

Do you guys really think that they are going to have that much more businesses and houses to cause another traffic tie up??? This will give people another alternative to get where they need to be. We do need more exits off the interstate around that area so I think its good plus its more tax base for the city of VaBeach. Overall I think its a good idea!

[rusthebuss]

I think Russ may have been right in that the fact that it is Pat Robertson behind this, maybe it's coloring people's opinions against him...  I can see that there are much more needed projects than a new interchange into a new neighborhood, but I don't think it's fair to say that Pat shouldn't have his interchange built if he went to the trouble of getting some money for it and is willing to find financing for 3/4 the cost.  Honestly, I think it's shameful that one man can get the funding, but the leaders in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake can't get it combined for much more needed projects.  It isn't Pat's responsibility to spend his time worrying about projects like Witchduck (sp?) when it has nothing to do with him.  He got the money, which is really the only important thing in the end... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well maybe our reps don't work hard enough for us. Maybe if they put an extra effort like Pat did. I go to church but I don't know either if I care for him or not. I don't think he is bad but don't totally agree with either so my opinions are not biased. I think this project is a good one and leads to maybe widening of Centerville Pkwy and new homes and buisnesses are always a good thing for the local economy. Maybe the beach officials should do a little more to get things done. In my opinion I think our reps are lazy but lets see how things pan out. We need our reps to work together and not bicker with each other like they always do. That is part of the reason things don't get funding and such because they cannot agree on anything

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Well maybe our reps don't work hard enough for us. Maybe if they put an extra effort like Pat did. I go to church but I don't know either if I care for him or not. I don't think he is bad but don't totally agree with either so my opinions are not biased. I think this project is a good one and leads to maybe widening of Centerville Pkwy and new homes and buisnesses are always a good thing for the local economy. Maybe the beach officials should do a little more to get things done. In my opinion I think our reps are lazy but lets see how things pan out. We need our reps to work together and not bicker with each other like they always do. That is part of the reason things don't get funding and such because they cannot agree on anything

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a profound dislike of Pat, probably many times that of anyone on this site, but I can at least respect his ability to get things done, and if Regent is any indication, this project could be VERY lucrative for the city...

[hoobo]

I think Russ may have been right in that the fact that it is Pat Robertson behind this, maybe it's coloring people's opinions against him...  I can see that there are much more needed projects than a new interchange into a new neighborhood, but I don't think it's fair to say that Pat shouldn't have his interchange built if he went to the trouble of getting some money for it and is willing to find financing for 3/4 the cost.  Honestly, I think it's shameful that one man can get the funding, but the leaders in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake can't get it combined for much more needed projects.  It isn't Pat's responsibility to spend his time worrying about projects like Witchduck (sp?) when it has nothing to do with him.  He got the money, which is really the only important thing in the end... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry, that 3/4 will come from your pocket. We're talking about one of the greatest con artists in history. This isn't Billy Graham or the guy from that church in Houston. This is Pat Robertson. He's a businessman first. C'mon, he was in the blood diamond trade, but claimed he didn't know. He's done some tricky maneuvers to hide money from Uncle Sam to avoid paying taxes. CBN is really a tax shelter for him.

Pat got funding because he pays into the campaign funds for the congressman who supported his project. I don't think Beach or Cpeake officials can legally use taxpayer money to fund congressional campaigns.

Busch Gardens got their interchange, a portion of which they paid. Disneyland got its interchange, for which it also helped to pay. The difference between these interchanges and Pat's proposal is that they went to existing developments that had grown to point that they were causing severe traffic problems on local roads. These projects alleviated that congestion.

Pat's project will only bring more congestion. If his project leads to the widening of Centerville Tpke, who will pay for that? If his development was already there and he wanted an interchange to reduce traffic on other local roads, then by all means, build it. The thing is, his project isn't there yet. It hasn't even been announced. Traffic impact assessment studies haven't been done. The FHA and VDOT haven't studied the idea for an interchange. VDOT hasn't studied changes to local roads. Why has funding been earmarked for something doesn't exist and may never exist? Has VB or Cpeake signed off on his development? Are those cities' officials even aware of a development? This interchange project is like putting the cart before the horse. What a waste of funds.

Edited August 5, 2005 by hoobo

[vdogg]

I have a profound dislike of Pat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As do I but honestly my position has more to do with federal funds, no matter the amount, being allocated to the wrong project at the wrong time. If there are additional federal funds availiable, they should be doled out to those projects with the highest priority first. I am happy that Pat lobbied and was able to get things done however I just don't think it was an appropriate maneuver at this time for the gov't to give him these funds.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Don't worry, that 3/4 will come from your pocket.  We're talking about one of the greatest con artists in history.  This isn't Billy Graham or the guy from that church in Houston.  This is Pat Robertson.  He's a businessman first.  C'mon, he was in the blood diamond trade, but claimed he didn't know.  He's done some tricky maneuvers to hide money from Uncle Sam to avoid paying taxes.  CBN is really a tax shelter for him.

Pat got funding because he pays into the campaign funds for the congressman who supported his project.  I don't think Beach or Cpeake officials can legally use taxpayer money to fund congressional campaigns.

Busch Gardens got their interchange, a portion of which they paid.  Disneyland got its interchange, for which it also helped to pay.  The difference between these interchanges and Pat's proposal is that they went to existing developments that had grown to point that they were causing severe traffic problems on local roads.  These projects alleviated that congestion. 

Pat's project will only bring more congestion.  If his project leads to the widening of Centerville Tpke, who will pay for that?  If his development was already there and he wanted an interchange to reduce traffic on other local roads, then by all means, build it.  The thing is, his project isn't there yet.  It hasn't even been announced.  Traffic impact assessment studies haven't been done.  The FHA and VDOT haven't studied the idea for an interchange.  VDOT hasn't studied changes to local roads.  Why has funding been earmarked for something doesn't exist and may never exist?  Has VB or Cpeake signed off on his development?  Are those cities' officials even aware of a development?  This interchange project is like putting the cart before the horse.  What a waste of funds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the glorious bit of my position is that I'm a minor with no job, so I don't pay taxes and don't have to worry about the 'other 3/4'. Also, I too think that it was implied that CBN and private developers/investors will contribute the remainder, and I do hope I'm right on that... I am quite well-aware of Pat Robertson's sly techniques for acquiring money and trust. I think that he's perhaps the most successful "God con-artist" of our era in that I doubt he believes the s*** he sells to his audiences. He bilks the millions of viewers of the 700 Club for all their worth. In this instance, however, he doesn't appear to have done anything illegal or remotely 'bad' (to use an ever-so-black and white term). I didn't say that it wasn't a waste of funds, but if the money's been allocated then there's no point in continuing to whine about it. Hopefully Virginia Beach and CPeake will get money the next go-around and in the meantime, let's just hope that this 10 million was worth it and hope that Pat produces a project of the highest caliber.

[lammius]

Do you guys really think that they are going to have that much more businesses and houses to cause another traffic tie up???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In short, yes. New interchanges typically do more to spur new development than to alleviate traffic, and hence, induce more travel demand. Sure, some trips will be diverted from surrounding interchanges but those lost trips at Greenbrier and Indian River will be replaced when another big box opens, or when new residents come in trying to take advantage of the easy interstate access. In sum, if you make access easier, more travel demand will be induced. It's like the well-known case in Atlanta. They had a four-lane freeway leading to the suburbs that was congested (I don't remember the name of the freeway). They doubled the capacity of the freeway. All of a sudden it became easy to get to those suburbs and people moved out there en masse. Within 10 years congestion was back to the level it was before the highway expansion.

I'm not saying this interchange is a bad thing, nor am I really opposed to the idea of such a project, but I wouldn't expect it to be a cure for interchange congestion. Rather, it's a development tool.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I suppose it's relevant here...

Over $100 million of federal money to assist construction and alteration of Norfolk Southern rail lines connecting Norfolk/Virginia ports to the Midwest.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...0205&ran=203051

[vdogg]

I suppose it's relevant here...

Over $100 million of federal money to assist construction and alteration of Norfolk Southern rail lines connecting Norfolk/Virginia ports to the Midwest.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...0205&ran=203051

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now this will be a boon to the area and is more than worthy of federal dollars IMO. Very good news.

[vdogg]

As do I but honestly my position has more to do with federal funds, no matter the amount, being allocated to the wrong project at the wrong time. If there are additional federal funds availiable, they should be doled out to those projects with the highest priority first. I am happy that Pat lobbied and was able to get things done however I just don't think it was an appropriate maneuver at this time for the gov't to give him these funds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to this pilotonline poll it seems that most people are against this.