Hampton Roads Transportation

[urbanfan]

Didn't Skanska and Fluor submit proposals on their own?  There was no RFP put out by VDOT was there?  That's also a good thing because the proposals came in at much lower costs than VDOT and local officials were estimating (if I remember the Pilot article correctly).  I believe these proposals call for private roads paid off by tolls after which ownership would be transferred to the state.  Maintenance would of course be done by VDOT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know. These were a while back though. The cost are lower and it would be built in sections. They propose tolls, but depending on how much vdot is willing to shell out for the project the tolls could range from 2.00 - 8.00 one way. The variable would be any taxes raised to allow the tolls to be lower and also depending on what dot is putting in the tolls could be lower. Lots of variables.

[okinawatyphoon]

This tunnel proposal leaves room for some kind of rail system in the tunnel, right? I remember one of the proposals did....

[urbanvb]

Speaking of rail does anyone have any updates on the Southeastern rail project? Is this definitely a go?

[rusthebuss]

I think they should put some kind of small tax where the drivers pay for the road maybe gas, which is a touchy subject right now, and have a toll around a dollar one way. I hope they have some sort of speed pass or something. The problem is, is that most people in this area can't afford tolls with some of the low paying jobs in this area. I don't know how this will fly. Maybe some sort of sales tax increase and get some of the tourists to pay some of the cost of the new crossing.

[urbanfan]

This tunnel proposal leaves room for some kind of rail system in the tunnel, right? I remember one of the proposals did....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Both proposals contain a dedicated land and tunnel for mass transit. The difference between the proposals is that one proposes to build just the leg to the mm to 564 first and put in the new tunnel and build the extension to 164. The widening of 664 would only occur as money cam available. The other lumps it all together, but also does it in sections. Both are very good options.

[mercuex]

For what they have no traffic. I lived up there not to long ago and there traffic is very light. Waste of money in my opinion and I bet they will get some of my state tax dollars up there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't entirely agree with you there. What they're doing is something we in HR don't have much of a notion for. It's called planning ahead. Richmond is growing and while they don't have our level of congestion, it has gotten worse over the last couple of years (I go to school up there and I work in the suburbs).

Besides, it'll look fantastic and will be a great boon to that city. Richmond really is an architectural jewel when you look at places like the Fan and Monument avenue.

Edited July 7, 2005 by mercuex

[Former Resident of HR]

This tunnel proposal leaves room for some kind of rail system in the tunnel, right? I remember one of the proposals did....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that you love rail but.... why waste the billion bucks on a train that no one will ride? The money for an extra tube dedicated to passenger rail would be better spent as an HOV/HOT tunnel with pricing dependant on congestion capped in the $7-10 range.

I am totally opposed to any "rail" option in the third crossing at this point. In fact I am totally against the rail industry in general unless it is on a route that is running a profit. The rail industry is a giant vacuum that sucks up money and does not return what it should. That would be aleviated if Amtrack could have a "SRAC" list sent off to congress though....

[hoobo]

I know that you love rail but.... why waste the billion bucks on a train that no one will ride?  The money for an extra tube dedicated to passenger rail would be better spent as an HOV/HOT tunnel with pricing dependant on congestion capped in the $7-10 range. 

I am totally opposed to any "rail" option in the third crossing at this point.  In fact I am totally against the rail industry in general unless it is on a route that is running a profit.  The rail industry is a giant vacuum that sucks up money and does not return what it should.  That would be aleviated if Amtrack could have a "SRAC" list sent off to congress though....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm against the highway system. I pay taxes for roads I never use. And they're all full of potholes. What's the point?

I never understood why people have no problem subsidizing roads with income, sales, and gas taxes (and some even have tolls), but when it comes to subsidizing Amtrak or local public transit systems, it's the end of the world.

[mercuex]

I'm against the highway system.  I pay taxes for roads I never use.  And they're all full of potholes.  What's the point?

I never understood why people have no problem subsidizing roads with income, sales, and gas taxes (and some even have tolls), but when it comes to subsidizing Amtrak or local public transit systems, it's the end of the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hm thats probably the best argument for rail ive ever heard lol

i say we just stop dumping money everywhere, period. in theory i agree with everything jpn said but unlike him I'm a huge fan of rail. The problem with amtrak isnt that its a train, its that its poorly managed and budgeted. like the federal government ... and Virginia.

[hoobo]

hm thats probably the best argument for rail ive ever heard lol

i say we just stop dumping money everywhere, period. in theory i agree with everything  jpn said but unlike him I'm a huge fan of rail. The problem with amtrak isnt that its a train, its that its poorly managed and budgeted. like the federal government ... and Virginia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, you should live in California.

Anyway, the biggest problem with Amtrak is lobbying by congressional leaders. Amtrak has lines that are profitable and others that leak money like crazy. Unfortunately, because of some congressmen's power and the effective lobbying of state and local governments, Amtrak can't shutdown those lines as they need Congress's approval to do so.

Edited July 7, 2005 by hoobo

[mercuex]

Oh, you should live in California.

Anyway, the biggest problem with Amtrak is lobbying by congressional leaders.  Amtrak has lines that are profitable and others that leak money like crazy.  Unfortunately, because of some congressmen's power and the effective lobbying of state and local governments, Amtrak can't shutdown those lines as they need Congress's approval to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can it be privatized? Maybe a line at a time? Or through contracting to sew up some loose ends?

[hoobo]

Can it be privatized? Maybe a line at a time? Or through contracting to sew up some loose ends?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The politics involved is nutty. Local and state as well as federal politicians who have unprofitbale lines in their districts will fight to have provisions written into the company charter that prohibit the shuttering of those lines. It's a mess. Anyway, according to the Federal DOT, the Federal Highway Administration gets between 55% of the DOT's budget, the FAA gets 25%, the Federal Transit Administration (I believe that's local mass transit outlays) gets 15%, and the Federal Railroad Administration (Amtrak) gets 2% of the $60 billion dollar budget. The Motor Carrier Safety and National Transportation Safety administrations get a combined 2%, as well. Amtrak's ridership topped 25 million passengers last year, a record. Transit systems carried almost 9 billion riders in 2003 according to the FTA. I couldn't find stats on automobile trips, but I found a federal report.

From the 2002 Transportation Report to Congress:

"The number of vehicle-miles traveled (VMT) between 1993 and 2000 grew by an average of 2.7 percent annually. About 1.1 trillion vehicle-miles traveled were on rural highways, and about 1.7 trillion were on urban roads. Traffic has increased in metropolitan areas, but it has also grown in rural communities where there is increased truck traffic and visits by tourists to recreation centers.

Urban transit passenger miles grew at an average annual rate of 2.1 percent between 1991 and 2000. Passenger mile growth on rail modes was considerably faster than on non-rail, increasing from 18.5 billion passenger miles in 1991 to 24.6 billion passenger miles in 2000, a 3.2 percent average annual increase. Non-rail passenger miles climbed from 18.9 billion in 1991 to 20.5 billion in 2000, an average annual increase of 0.9 percent."

The fewer people on the road, the better. Imagine, congestion costs the Los Angeles economy almost $13 billion annually. This report is interesting.

[rusthebuss]

I'm really curious why people that left here are still curious or want to be involved in this area? Not trying to start something just curious why you guys take any interest in the area?

[hoobo]

I'm really curious why people that left here are still curious or want to be involved in this area? Not trying to start something just curious why you guys take any interest in the area?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Born and raised in VB. Went to UVa. After debating on which grad school to go to, decided on UCLA (it helps that my mom's family is out here). Thought I'd return after school, but ended up staying for a job. Living in Newport for the beach and because it reminds me of VB (the part where I live is kinda like the North End but with the action of the Block). Unless I end up with a girl who wants to stay out here, I'm coming back east in 4 or so years. As a single guy, there are 3 places I'd live: Baltimore, the Triangle, or Charleston. To raise a family, I'd like to live in HR, NoVa, or the Triangle. 18 years of my life, plus summers during college, trips home to see the fam, and possibly a return are why I'm interested in what happens. It's the after school trips to Taco Hell. It's the bus rides to Cox and seeing all the condos go up. It's the cruising down the Strip. It's the trips to Lynnhaven and Waterside before the development. When TC used to be woods. When Planet Music and Barnes & Noble used to be Hechinger. When VB/Indy Taco Bell was Two Amigos. Great, now I'm getting all sentimental.

[rusthebuss]

Born and raised in VB.  Went to UVa.  After debating on which grad school to go to, decided on UCLA (it helps that my mom's family is out here).  Thought I'd return after school, but ended up staying for a job.  Living in Newport for the beach and because it reminds me of VB (the part where I live is kinda like the North End but with the action of the Block).    Unless I end up with a girl who wants to stay out here, I'm coming back east in 4 or so years.  As a single guy, there are 3 places I'd live:  Baltimore, the Triangle, or Charleston.  To raise a family, I'd like to live in HR, NoVa, or the Triangle.  18 years of my life, plus summers during college, trips home to see the fam, and possibly a return are why I'm interested in what happens.  It's the after school trips to Taco Hell.  It's the bus rides to Cox and seeing all the condos go up.  It's the cruising down the Strip.  It's the trips to Lynnhaven and Waterside before the development.  When TC used to be woods.  When Planet Music and Barnes & Noble used to be Hechinger.  When VB/Indy Taco Bell was Two Amigos.  Great, now I'm getting all sentimental.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just curious because lamminus pokes in here every now and then and he had no intentions of ever coming back here and was kind of curious why someone that doesn't really want to come back want to involve themselves with development in the area. I wish people wouldn't leave but I do understand why? That is why I am always worried about higher paying jobs coming to the area.

[vdogg]

I was just curious because lamminus pokes in here every now and then and he had no intentions of ever coming back here and was kind of curious why someone that doesn't really want to come back want to involve themselves with development in the area. I wish people wouldn't leave but I do understand why? That is why I am always worried about higher paying jobs coming to the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no intention of ever going back to Michigan to live but i do still pop into that forum from time to time to see how my home of 18 years is doing. I will always take an interest in how my hometown is doing because it is such an integral part of me and who I am.

[mercuex]

I have no intention of ever going back to Michigan to live but i do still pop into that forum from time to time to see how my home of 18 years is doing. I will always take an interest in how my hometown is doing because it is such an integral part of me and who

I am.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here and Provo/New England. Born there but really don't think I'll ever live there except possibly for grad school. Too cold and too expensive though )

[okinawatyphoon]

I have no intention of ever going back to Michigan to live but i do still pop into that forum from time to time to see how my home of 18 years is doing. I will always take an interest in how my hometown is doing because it is such an integral part of me and who I am.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said. Although I have intention to visit Virginia again sometime, I probably won't ever live there again. But I agree with vdogg. Hampton Roads is the first place I can remember living, and so I only want the best for it. It is the first downtown I can remember seeing and it sparked my interest in skyscrapers. It is a part of me.

[rusthebuss]

Can I ask why you don't think you will come back?

[mercuex]

I hope United goes belly up. I'm sorry but we need to just let the market do its work. Artificially pumping life into that failing airline is just encouraging their awful service.

I have been flying around the last few days and EVERY TIME they have had either some kind of mechanical failure or an issue with my ticketing. They would tell me (and this happened multiple times) that I had a ticket all reserved and ready and when I get to the airport they'd have a completely different story. Ridiculous.

[okinawatyphoon]

Can I ask why you don't think you will come back?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For one, I didn't like the weather very much. I like to have more snow, but also more hurricanes/typhoons. Either would be good, but Hampton Roads is right in the middle and gets few of either. That may be good for some people, but I actually will become a meteorologist and hope to see better weather events. I also intend to live overseas more of my life. And the college I plan on attending is in Indiana. I have few connections left in Hampton Roads. So that is basically why I don't plan on coming back.

[okinawatyphoon]

I hope United goes belly up. I'm sorry but we need to just let the market do its work. Artificially pumping life into that failing airline is just encouraging their awful service.

I have been flying around the last few days and EVERY TIME they have had either some kind of mechanical failure or an issue with my ticketing. They would tell me (and this happened multiple times) that I had a ticket all reserved and ready and when I get to the airport they'd have a completely different story. Ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your story may very well be true for the Norfolk flight of United, but I fly United a lot and love it. It is one of the few airlines that still offers free drinks even on short flights (such as Chicago to Detroit, economy class). United's overseas service is especially nice. I've never had a delay on United, even going through Chicago.

[mercuex]

Your story may very well be true for the Norfolk flight of United, but I fly United a lot and love it. It is one of the few airlines that still offers free drinks even on short flights (such as Chicago to Detroit, economy class). United's overseas service is especially nice. I've never had a delay on United, even going through Chicago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No not just in Norfolk. I'm glad I'm the one bearing the brunt of their incompetence.

Airtran serves free drinks btw and no one does a better int'l flight than BA.

[Former Resident of HR]

I'm against the highway system.  I pay taxes for roads I never use.  And they're all full of potholes.  What's the point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You never use the highways? Do you think that most of what you buy in any store is trucked in on one highway or another? And how much tax do YOU personally pay that you can pinpoint going to highways? Just curious....

Seriously though, I see your other point about Amtrak. If it were a private business, a huge number of lines (NN-Richmond one of them I am sure) would close in a heartbeat. When Greyhound and the Chinatown companies run the same routes, I don't see the point.

[vdogg]

Well it appears that all is not well in third crossing land. Look for this to become a major regional issue in years to come, as if it weren't already . Cheaper plan rejected for third crossing