Medium City Skyline

[Viper]

To a point yes, but there are 4 counties I can think that have a large % of the their workforce population come to Jacksonville to work that are not listed in the MSA. Combined, that's over 140,000 people that aren't listed in our MSA that could if it were based on % workforce commuters. The overall influence is less known to me though.

[rocket9561]

To a point yes, but there are 4 counties I can think that have a large % of the thir workforce population come to Jacksonville to work that are not listed in the MSA.  Combined, that's over 140,000 people that aren't listed in our MSA that could if it were based on %commuters.  The overall influence is less known to me though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nashville could make a similar case for the Clarksville-Hopkinsville MSA and that would add maybe 300-400,000 to our CSA. Each city has a unique situation in this area..

[Viper]

rocket9561, it does include it.

EDIT:

I've got conflicting MSA maps here, both say 2004.

If it is not, it's a 140k addition.

[Viper]

Pardon the double post.

After adding the land area of all of Charlottes MSA counties, it tabulates to a whopping 5,941 sq miles.

Nashville MSA is now 6,034 sq miles.

Jax MSA is now 3,204 sq miles.

[brewerw]

You cant jsut compare the land area. You have to compare livable land area. I promose you when you work it out Nasvhille has less livable land area than Jacksonville. almost the entire north part of the city is way to hilly to live on.

[krazeeboi]

I dare you to walk ATL's dowtown after midnight. I uses to live there. The city is spread out from here to kingdom come. I agree CLT does not compare at all with ATL. It is half the size for goodness sake, but for livability I would live in dtwn CLT anyday before I would live in the CBD of ATL. You could end up dead or seriously injured.  That is why ATL has Buckhead....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While all of this may be true, the subject of this thread is "skylines," not "livability."

[krazeeboi]

Here is a map of where I am getting Region. If you think that is an overextension of an urban region than let me show you some of the largest metros in the us maps. Charlotte is 80 miles by 95 miles.

This is truly an acurate measurment.

2.2-2.4 Million in Metro Region.

http://www.charlottechamber.com/files/Carolinas.pdf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems like you're comparing Charlotte's urban or metropolitan region figure with that of the metropolitan statistical area of the other cities listed and from there conclude that Charlotte shouldn't be on the list because it's "way bigger" than the other places. I think a little consistency in the usage of figures is in order here. Either we use "urban region" or MSA figures for all of the places listed in the poll. Personally, I think we should stick with the MSA figure since we already have a working definition for that figure. I would think that "urban region" would be somewhat subjective, since there was actually no definition provided by the Charlotte Chamber (only the number of counties included in the region, not even the actual names of the counties or what method was used for inclusion of those particular counties). The US Census Bureau has a list of terms used in connection with city/metropolitan/micropolitan populations, and "metro region" is not one of them.

[rocket9561]

rocket9561, it does include it.

EDIT:

I've got conflicting MSA maps here, both say 2004.

If it is not, it's a 140k addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Include what?

[monsoon]

Charlotte's MSA is about 1.5 million under the new MSA definition adopted by the US Census in 2003.

Charlotte's CSA is about 2.1 million under the new CSA definition created by the US Census in 2003.

The 2000 Census definitions are no longer used.

MSAs and CSAs are determined by simply by commuting patterns.

Locales where there is less sprawl and more tightly defined urban cores lost population in the MSA re-definition. Charlotte's MSA was split into one MSA and several micropolitan areas. In my book that is a good thing. Nobody wants an MSA that spread across dozens of counties.

The CSA definition was created to reflect the urban areas that roughly corresponded to the 2000 Census.

[A2]

Thanks for the stats Metro...

[brewerw]

Thank you for the deffinitions.

[ariesjow]

Finally got the time to read through this whole thread and, I must say, it's quite funny how people are splitting hairs trying to show how Jacksonville, Charlotte, and Nashville outdo each other. I got quite a laugh out of it. This entire thread goes waaaaay off point. It's really quite silly what people will go through to show their city is somehow "better" - arguing which is bigger or more populated, taller buildings, more buildings, more density, prettier, growing faster, sprawling faster, etc.

All these cities are so freaking similar in many ways yet all have their individual flairs. I agree with the poster who said something along the lines of these being three of the most comparable mid-sized cities in the South mainly because of similar recent great development in various areas and for various reasons. It's only evidenced by so many discussions comparing any and every facets of these three cities.

[NCB]

Finally got the time to read through this whole thread and, I must say, it's quite funny how people are splitting hairs trying to show how Jacksonville, Charlotte, and Nashville outdo each other. I got quite a laugh out of it. This entire thread goes waaaaay off point. It's really quite silly what people will go through to show their city is somehow "better" - arguing which is bigger or more populated, taller buildings, more buildings, more density, prettier, growing faster, sprawling faster, etc.

All these cities are so freaking similar in many ways yet all have their individual flairs. I agree with the poster who said something along the lines  of these being three of the most comparable mid-sized cities in the South mainly because of similar recent great development in various areas and for various reasons. It's only evidenced by so many discussions comparing any and every facets of these three cities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well how about a city that isnt as comparable to the cities listed...New Orleans.

It seems this thread has gone off of the "best mid sized city skyline" topic, but ill post my pictures anyway..

New Orleans isnt listed but i think it should be..here are a few pics

^^thanks to alon504

[EastSideResider]

Medium Sized?? Charlotte is one of the biggest cities in America? Charlotte is even bigger than Atlanta, Miami, etc.?? I also think Jacksonville shouldn't be mentioned as a "Medium Sized" city.

[Viper]

Medium Sized?? Charlotte is one of the biggest cities in America? Charlotte is even bigger than Atlanta, Miami, etc.?? I also think Jacksonville shouldn't be mentioned as a "Medium Sized" city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you might be slightly confused on a few things such as city limits and MSA.

[A2]

Medium Sized?? Charlotte is one of the biggest cities in America? Charlotte is even bigger than Atlanta, Miami, etc.?? I also think Jacksonville shouldn't be mentioned as a "Medium Sized" city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ESR, I think you are refering to JUST CITY POP, right??? Anywho, you are right, in that CLT is the 20th largest CITY in the US with about 650K. ATL and Miami are smaller in terms of their City pop, but their metros are 2x ours. And for Jacksonville, believe it or not, they have over 770K in their city. I love CLT too, but we have to keep things in perspective.

A2

[EastSideResider]

I am talking about city population. Viper don't talk to me like a 2 year old. I'm not confused. I know exactly what metros are, okay? I know that Charlotte's metro is very small for it's city size. But notice that the topic is "medium city skyline". I can't italicize/bold/underline anymore. If it said medium metro skyline, Charlotte is a perfect fit. I love Charlotte, but I'm willing to "face the facts" A2. Charlotte is a large city, but a small metro. I know which perspective I'm looking at it in. Notice that I added Jacksonville when I was talking about how it should be considered a large city, so I know that Jacksonville's population is more than Charlotte. So instead of you asking me to believe it or not, I'm asking you.

[A2]

I am talking about city population. Viper don't talk to me like a 2 year old. I'm not confused. I know exactly what metros are, okay? I know that Charlotte's metro is very small for it's city size. But notice that the topic is "medium cityskyline". I can't italicize/bold/underline anymore. If it said medium metro skyline, Charlotte is a perfect fit. I love Charlotte, but I'm willing to "face the facts" A2. Charlotte is a huge city, but a small metro. I know which perspective I'm looking at it in. Notice that I added Jacksonville when I was talking about how it should be considered a large city. So instead of you asking me to believe it or not, I'm asking you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, ESR you win.

A2

[Viper]

ESR, the problem is that city limits have no bearing on sky lines. If you trying to get technical with the complete wording of the poll, then yes, you are correct but the term city is paralleled with the MSA in common conversation unless expressely stated one way or the other.

Jax is only bigger than Miami on a technicality and the skylines are not bound by, restricted by or are in fashion related to city limits.

[krazeeboi]

When you use urbanized areas instead of the strictly political municipal boundaries, it's easy to see that Charlotte and Jacksonville are certainly "medium sized" cities. As of 2000, neither Charlotte's nor Jacksonville's UA's had reached 1 million, whereas Atlanta's is well over 3 million and Miami's is over 4 million.

[NcSc74]

Charlotte "metro" has to compete with the Triad for # of jobs as hard as that is to believe. If you look at metro maps you will see they touch each other. That is one explaination for Charlottes small MSA number. There are a lot of jobs in the Triad and the whole piedmont region. So with that said I realize the reason for the small number. It is not Charlotte is "small time" it is that NC has 2 other metros in the millions and both of them offer about the same thing in terms of jobs and growth potential. I am glad it is that way. This way one metro won't dominate the state and growth only happens around that metro. In NCs case growth spreads to just about all of the state.

[A2]

Charlotte "metro" has to compete with the Triad for # of jobs as hard as that is to believe. If you look at metro maps you will see they touch each other. That is one explaination for Charlottes small MSA number. There are a lot of jobs in the Triad and the whole piedmont region. So with that said I realize the reason for the small number. It is not Charlotte is "small time" it is that NC has 2 other metros in the millions and both of them offer about the same thing in terms of jobs and growth potential. I am glad it is that way. This way one metro won't dominate the state and growth only happens around that metro. In NCs case growth spreads to just about all of the state.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am glad you mentioned this ncsc74. I seem to argue the population number all the time with other posters. Charlotte's 15 county region (which is smaller that many Top city metros in total size) has north of 2.1 Million. The Metro area of the Triad is over 1.4 Million. I can get to W-S in less than an hour drive. Now if you took and combined the population of the two Metros, you would be looking at a number closer to 3.5+ million people and growing fast. But this is the same problem with the Fort Lauderdale and Miami area too. Both are considered seperate even though you and I both know they are the same. For that matter you could count West Palm Beach as a seperate MSA too. Just my two cents. B)

A2

[MAJIKMAN]

Please define MID SIDED CITY. Because I can't be the only one confused.

[krazeeboi]

Well, as far as this poll is concerned, I think all of the cities here are more or less in the same league except Knoxville, Lexington, and maybe Raleigh (which, in any case, is certainly closer to being in the same league as the remaining cities). So, as far as this poll is concerned, I would define "mid-sized" as those cities having urbanized areas between 650,000-1 million residents. Including Raleigh, the range would be 500,000-1 million.

[Viper]

But this is the same problem with the Fort Lauderdale and Miami area too. Both are considered seperate even though you and I both know they are the same. For that matter you could count West Palm Beach as a seperate MSA too. Just my two cents.  B)

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are all combined in one MSA now.