PC vs MAC

[jax]

osx is plain beautiful. i use it on my womans laptop. but...

so many exisiting programs i own on pc, plus the fact that i build all my own desktops keeps me from makign the big leap.

[ezcheese]

nice avatar! i just watched a couple of episodes of ATHF.

[jb4563]

But.. I prefer PC 'cause most programs out there are designed for Windows. In other words, almost all the programs out there work better for PC's. Although I do wish Microsoft, would make the PC's a little more stable!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. You can get the most popular software on both platforms.

2. Most of the software (the 10,000 or whatever) that is Windows-only is the crappy, shareware, freeware and other stuff no one really needs. Its also all the spyware, virus blocker, adware software needed to run a Windows computer software safely.

3. Which programs "work better for PCs"? You are saying comparing software that runs on both platforms, and saying the PC version works better.

[jb4563]

Vista looks like it will be a good product. I hate Mac OS X though, it has some things that are just annoying. I don't need any eye candy. Oh, and having only one mouse button is stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, Vista looks like it will be a great product....hackers have already written viruses for it and its not even out!! OS X has been out since, what, 2001? And, how many viruses does it have? Umm, none!

Making comments like having one mouse button without any concrete opinions to back up accomplishes nothing....and besides we have multi-button mice (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse). Anyway, the way OS X is designed you really don't have to use the CTRL+CLICK much because the OS is designed more intutively (unless you are using really professional graphics or editing software). I trust that the people who introduced the mouse and GUI to the public knows what they are doing with it much more than the company who ripped them off.

You may not need eyecandy, but I need a computer that works...and that is a Mac.

But, apparently, even M$ needs some eyecandy since every article about Vista says they are trying to make it look more and more like OS X in the eyecandy department.

People who say they "don't need eyecandy" when referring to why they don't use OS X are really trying to say that they've never really used the OS, and they have no real arguments.

i can give real arguments of why OS X is superior to Windows because I have used both computers readily (and that does'nt mean going into a school computer lab for 5 min and using a Windows computer). I cannot stand it when someone bases their entire opnion of Macs on their 5 min experience with one in a computer lab at a school. Those computers have been abused by all the people using them, and the labs are envitably run by some Windows fanboy that really doesn't take care of the Macs.

[jb4563]

Forget the MAC & PC (which means MS),  the future is Linux.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right, since Mac is Unix based...so the Mac is the future.

[jb4563]

I've had Windows 2000 based servers go over one year of uptime without a restart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Servers are suppsoed to have long uptimes for a reason.

How many times have you had to restart your own personal Windows based computer at home?

The only time I have to restart my Mac is for a software update that requires a restart (OS updates are the only ones the really require that)

[Snowguy716]

Ahhh...

the age old Mac vs. PC argument.

I once owned a PC, a Dell to be exact (mistake #1). Everything was all fine and dandy, until it started getting bogged down with spyware and viruses and got to the point where I had to format the hard disk and start over because the computer was running so slowly.

Then the mother board blew out.. and what do you know! Dell didn't make those mother boards any more, so we had to buy a different model AND a new CPU chip that would go on the new model mother board. This doesn't even begin to explain the crappy quality of windows media player and all the other media programs.

When I finally got fed up with my PC, I found the light... and I will never turn back. I bought an iMac G4 a little over a year ago and I must say, I'm impressed. I've never had the OS freeze up. No viruses. No spyware. It doesn't take a readme file to install a software program. I can edit photos, video, music, and burn them to DVD/CDs with ease. All the software that I need is available for Mac including all of my favorite games.

I'm a PC to Mac convert.. and I must say, I will never turn back.

And don't give me the "Well, Macs suck because they have one button mice and I don't need something pretty to look at."

You probably haven't ever used Mac OS long enough to even be able to make a comment like taht.

[M. Brown]

3.  Which programs "work better for PCs"?  You are saying  comparing software that runs on both platforms, and saying the PC version works better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Games...

[Neo]

Servers are suppsoed to have long uptimes for a reason.

How many times have you had to restart your own personal Windows based computer at home?

The only time I have to restart my Mac is for a software update that requires a restart (OS updates are the only ones the really require that)

Actually, I only restart it when doing software updates which is typically once a month, so we'll say I restart it 12 times a year. BTW, I do have an Apple laptop and use it actively so I'm not debating that Windows or Mac is better than one another. If Apple had more market share though, I can guarantee there would be more flaws exposed. If you were a spyware or virus writer, do you think you would spend your time writing code to be used on 90% or 5% of the market? Tough choice huh?

[Neo]

Since we're on this debate again, I will give one of my pet peeves about Mac software. It irks me that companies, large companies, don't give Mac users updates as often as Windows. This is a huge turn off to Mac's IMO. Simple things like Yahoo Messenger, etc. haven't been updated for a couple of years and are missing most of the features of the new version. This is just one example, but is a problem duplicated across the board. I have an iBook G4 and since day one I've had a lag problem with the interface. This isn't because of some third party software getting in the way which is why I mention "since day one." Things like right clicking, takes a couple of seconds usually for the menu to actually pop-up. I've heard about this problem and that it has gradually gotten better over 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, etc. but IMO it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. When I right click, I want a menu to pop-up right then. After all, it's only a rectangle box with some text, why is this so hard for the OS to do? Rant off...

[jb4563]

  If you were a spyware or virus writer, do you think you would spend your time writing code to be used on 90% or 5% of the market?  Tough choice huh? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is part of the reason, but the other reason the way the architecture of OS X is written has made it much more difficult to write viruses (I'm sure people have tried).

In addition, applications cannot run on the Mac without authorization (user password), which makes it hard to run adware/spyware on the computer (Windows is putting this in in 2006, 2007, 2008..whenever they decide to release Vista)

[jb4563]

Things like right clicking, takes a couple of seconds usually for the menu to actually pop-up.  I've heard about this problem and that it has gradually gotten better over 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, etc. but IMO it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with.  When I right click, I want a menu to pop-up right then.  After all, it's only a rectangle box with some text, why is this so hard for the OS to do?  Rant off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I right click, the menu pops up instantly.

[jb4563]

Games...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The games that are available for both platforms work just the same on both platforms.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The thing about viruses and spyware is that getting them is soley the users fault for not keeping the damn system upgraded and for opening them. I have never gotten a virus on XP nor have I had any spyware for as long as I can remeber.

Lets see, I only visit my sites, several forums, and the wall street journal. Maybe if you look at pornography on random sites or are downloading illegal programs, cracks, warez, or what have you; you will come across a great deal of spyware. You will not get any viruses or spyware by staying on Yahoo or by reading the Wall Street Journal online.

And don't give me the "Well, Macs suck because they have one button mice and I don't need something pretty to look at."

You probably haven't ever used Mac OS long enough to even be able to make a comment like taht.

As for ever using a Mac, I actually bought a Powerbook G4, 15" about a year ago and returned it within a month. The power supply had broken once and the cd drive was making an odd whirring sound. It was also ran quite hot. Mac OS X felt like a toy, by making things 'simple' they became more complicated. Networking is certinally not simple on the Mac. I then went and bought a IBM x40 which is far superior in every aspect (even price ).

Things like right clicking, takes a couple of seconds usually for the menu to actually pop-up. I've heard about this problem and that it has gradually gotten better over 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, etc. but IMO it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with. When I right click, I want a menu to pop-up right then. After all, it's only a rectangle box with some text, why is this so hard for the OS to do? Rant off...

Oh yea, that was very annoying. It gave me a blistering headache. The responsiveness of Mac OS X left a great deal to be desired.

Apple = overrated.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Yea, Vista looks like it will be a great product....hackers have already written viruses for it and its not even out!!    OS X has been out since, what, 2001?  And, how many viruses does it have?  Umm, none!

Making comments like having one mouse button without any concrete opinions to back up accomplishes nothing....and besides we have multi-button mice (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse).  Anyway, the way OS X is designed you really don't have to use the CTRL+CLICK much because the OS is designed more intutively (unless you are using really professional graphics or editing software).  I trust that the people who introduced the mouse and GUI to the public knows what they are doing with it much more than the company who ripped them off.

You may not need eyecandy, but I need a computer that works...and that is a Mac.

But, apparently, even M$ needs some eyecandy since every article about Vista says they are trying to make it look more and more like OS X in the eyecandy department.

People who say they "don't need eyecandy" when referring to why they don't use OS X are really trying to say that they've never really used the OS, and they have no real arguments.

i can give real arguments of why OS X is superior to Windows because I have used both computers readily (and that does'nt mean going into a school computer lab for 5 min and using a Windows computer).  I cannot stand it when someone bases their entire opnion of Macs on their 5 min experience with one in a computer lab at a school.  Those computers have been abused by all the people using them, and the labs are envitably run by some Windows fanboy that really doesn't take care of the Macs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You probably just read the Apple web page and took that as gospel. If you were to look, there are a great number of Mac OS X exploits and Mac OS X is not nearly as secure as you think.

Some resources to look at:

http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/313

[jb4563]

You probably just read the Apple web page and took that as gospel. If you were to look, there are a great number of Mac OS X exploits and Mac OS X is not nearly as secure as you think.

Some resources to look at:

http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/313

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Apple doesn't advertise the fact that there are no viruses for the OS; so there is nothing on the website for me to look at.

There is a reason why I don't have any anti-virus, anti-spyware, or anti-adware on my computer at all (and don't need it).

I didn't say that OS X didn't have security holes; I said there are no viruses for it.

(And, and BTW, that second link had an article written by a guy who is paid by Symantec--a company that wants to sell anti-virus and security software--so he is bias.)

[jb4563]

The thing about viruses and spyware is that getting them is soley the users fault for not keeping the damn system upgraded and for opening them. I have never gotten a virus on XP nor have I had any spyware for as long as I can remeber.

The fact that you have to run all those anti-whatevers and worry about getting those things if one of the masses of ignorant Windows users sends it to you is enough to not use Windoze period.

As for ever using a Mac, I actually bought a Powerbook G4, 15" about a year ago and returned it within a month. The power supply had broken once and the cd drive was making an odd whirring sound. It was also ran quite hot. Mac OS X felt like a toy, by making things 'simple' they became more complicated. Networking is certinally not simple on the Mac. I then went and bought a IBM x40 which is far superior in every aspect (even price ).

I am on a Mac forum and whenever Windoze fanboys come into the always say they bought a Mac, it broke and they returned it. They always say it felt like a toy. Most of the time they are lying. That is very convinent that someone who hates Macs happened to buy one the had everytihng on it break. But, electronics are electronics. No company is going to have a 100% perfect working product. You offer no examples of how things were "complicated".

IBM x40? That thing is ugly as dirt. Where is the FireWire on it? where is the built in Bluetooth?

Apple = overrated.

You've obviously never used a Mac.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

QUOTE

Apple = overrated.

You've obviously never used a Mac.

I just said that I have used a Mac, a Powerbook G4 15". I did in fact give an example of a complication, networking. Other complications that occurred could stem from my lack of knowledge in using the operating system such as my problems with removing software.

I personally find the x40 better looking, but I guess thats just me. I use a laptop for BUSINESS. I am not looking for a fashion statement, I am looking for performance in what I need. Which right now seems to be Dreamweaver MX. It didn't work too well for me on the Mac (having the menus at the top of the screen in not very efficient IMO) I don't use digital video cameras or blue tooth on this computer. I am not trying to use a laptop for something it is not designed for. I want portability and a very light laptop and the x40 provides that for me.

Some people obviously prefer style over substance. Look at the iPod fanfare for instance.

I am not going to talk about this any longer since no one is going to switch sides, live long and prosper with your mac and when they are out of business in 10 years... well, find something else that's "cool".

[jb4563]

Other complications that occurred could stem from my lack of knowledge in using the operating system such as my problems with removing software.

HA. It seems that is where Windows is complicated. All you do with a Mac is drag the icon to the trash and its all gone...no DLL's, no registries, no add/remove programs interface

I am not going to talk about this any longer since no one is going to switch sides, live long and prosper with your mac and when they are out of business in 10 years... well, find something else that's "cool".

Ahh...I love when Windoze fanboys predict the death of Apple (we'll make yours number 47)...hasn't happened yet.

http://www.macobserver.com/appledeathknell/

[ezcheese]

Actually, I only restart it when doing software updates which is typically once a month, so we'll say I restart it 12 times a year.    BTW, I do have an Apple laptop and use it actively so I'm not debating that Windows or Mac is better than one another.  If Apple had more market share though, I can guarantee there would be more flaws exposed.  If you were a spyware or virus writer, do you think you would spend your time writing code to be used on 90% or 5% of the market?  Tough choice huh? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very good point there. mac fanboys generally don't take this into consideration, but if apple did have more market share with os x there is no doubt there would be worms and viruses written for the os.

Since we're on this debate again, I will give one of my pet peeves about Mac software.  It irks me that companies, large companies, don't give Mac users updates as often as Windows.  This is a huge turn off to Mac's IMO.  Simple things like Yahoo Messenger, etc. haven't been updated for a couple of years and are missing most of the features of the new version.  This is just one example, but is a problem duplicated across the board.  I have an iBook G4 and since day one I've had a lag problem with the interface.  This isn't because of some third party software getting in the way which is why I mention "since day one."  Things like right clicking, takes a couple of seconds usually for the menu to actually pop-up.  I've heard about this problem and that it has gradually gotten better over 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, etc. but IMO it's a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with.  When I right click, I want a menu to pop-up right then.  After all, it's only a rectangle box with some text, why is this so hard for the OS to do?  Rant off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the fact that certain programs come out way later with missing functions that the windows versions have has annoyed me for a long time.

as far as your contextual menus taking a while to pop up, my girlfriend has an imac g4 too and hers can be fairly slow with certain tasks as well. i think it has more to do with the fact that apple uses hella-slow hard drives in the ibook than the actual os being slow.

on the other hand, os x has been known to be rather memory-intensive and slow to perform certain functions when you're dealing with the most up-to-date version on any machine that is not brand spankin' new.

[ngp]

Some people obviously prefer style over substance. Look at the iPod fanfare for instance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait. What?

You don't want to be that guy, do you?

[ezcheese]

well, the latest news is that the intel version of mac os x has been cracked to run on any pc. i wasn't able to download the videos of the boot process yet, but check out the link on /. (slashdot.org) if you want to read more about this.

[Spartan]

but the use of the CELL in the PS3 for instance is rather useless and more of a  sales pitch that really does not ammount to much. This rendition of the CELL has extreme performance in terms of floating point calculations but not much else, its not much better then a typical processor in terms of game performance. These 'next generation' consoles are on the whole disappointing. Graphics will become better but AI will, on the whole, not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who said the PS3 was going to be a great thing? From waht I have read, the Xbox 2 or whatever its called will be the superior system. Its the potential of this technology that I am interested in.

Apple's love of a one-button mouse has more to do with design philosophy than stupidity. By forcing developers to work around a one-button interface, they're making a concerted effort to spare their users from the contextual window hell that Windows users have to deal with. Whether or not their steadfastness/stubbornness is necessary is questionable, but I definitely think it's admirable

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The contextual window is a great thing. Its more efficient since you are going to be clicking around anyway. I do like the sound of the mighty mouse. Perhaps this will encourage Apple to speed up that right click function.

i can give real arguments of why OS X is superior to Windows because I have used both computers readily (and that does'nt mean going into a school computer lab for 5 min and using a Windows computer).  I cannot stand it when someone bases their entire opnion of Macs on their 5 min experience with one in a computer lab at a school.  Those computers have been abused by all the people using them, and the labs are envitably run by some Windows fanboy that really doesn't take care of the Macs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are wrong here. My first real experience with a mac (that wasn't one of those green screened monsters from the 80s) was in a lab. The 2nd gen. iMacs were fresh out of the box, and my experience using it was a blast. Up until that point I had never considered getting one. Now that I have, it has me semi- converted to the idea of getting one. The only thing holding me back now is price (mostly that i lack the funding and less that they are expensive), and the fact that it will simply not run the software that a PC will.

I will touch on that more below

In addition, applications cannot run on the Mac without authorization (user password), which makes it hard to run adware/spyware on the computer (Windows is putting this in in 2006, 2007, 2008..whenever they decide to release Vista)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is probably the single best feature in OS X. I also enjoy the widgets. Windows doesn't have anything that comes close to that.

The games that are available for both platforms work just the same on both platforms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but they aren't all available for both platforms. Case in point- SimCity4. Yes, the Mac version does exist and probably runs better than the PC's, but there is the expansion pack called 'Rush Hour' which has yet to be released for Mac. This is a problem since the expansion pack is critical for me to get the experience I want from the game.

That is the only game I ever really play any more outside of solitare or the much better 'free cell' and a 3rd party game called Slay" which mostl likely won't work for the Mac unless I buy the Windows environment emulator. As I get older gaming power is less of an issue versus functionality, practicality, convenience, and simplicity (to an extent). I am used to how complex windows is, and using it accordingly, so not having to think about stuff will be a challenge.

Applications in general are not always available for mac's. I use a GIS software for school that doesn't have a mac version at all. This software is too powerful for the windows environment emulator, and would likely be so slow that it would be useless. So even if I get a mac, I would still have to keep a PC around if I want to use my software. So why not get a PC and not deal with the hassle of two computers?

As for XP- I have it and I have no problems out of it at all. The flaw in Windows is not the operating system, as much as it is Internet Explorer. I have had a total of zero viruses and general operating flaws since I switched to Firefox, and I only turn off my PC to save electricity.

All of that said, I am going to wait and see what Vista ends up looking like and the next OS X rendition (Cougar?) and just compare the two. I may make the switch in the end.

[Spartan]

well, the latest news is that the intel version of mac os x has been cracked to run on any pc. i wasn't able to download the videos of the boot process yet, but check out the link on /. (slashdot.org) if you want to read more about this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. I figured that would happen sooner or later, but I didn't think it would be so soon.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

that's kind of neat, I will need to look into that just for fun.