South Light Rail Transit

[dubone]

I think people often develop their notions of a city and its culture when they arrive or early on, and rarely update those perceptions over time. I'll bet a lot of people in Charlotte still think of this place as being just like it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago. People still think downtown is dangerous, and the city is only filled with conservative suburbanites.

Frankly, I'll bet a majority of the city won't ever use light rail. Many will think is a boondoggle, even if it wildly exceeds CATS's expectations. To me, if only a few hundred people a year use LRT, but it continues to spur massive redevelopment and density along the corridor, it would still be successful. That is the primary goal of LRT, to direct redevelopment and revitalization so that growth can stay in the city without overrunning older neighborhoods.

But we all know that it will get pretty close to its ridership projections, as the feds require a very conservative approach.

Frankly, I would not worry about people complaining about LRT. The trolley, a very inexpensive project in the scheme of things, was considered a boondoggle and had the negative attentions of a many people, but then it was successful and that criticism wound to a halt. They will be proven wrong by reality.

[monsoon]

However the main employers downtown have been on a rather noticable hiring binge of young people (myself included), a fair percentage of whom rent/own in downtown (or at least on the CBD streetcar proposed routes) or in the South End area. Also, from informal discussion, it is this group of people that will support light rail.

Which brings me to the idea that most light rail users will be taking the trains from the inner ring neighborhoods/downtown south to the retail along South Blvd (mainly out to the Target/CompUSA down near 485, but hopefully some of the panaderias/taquerias along South will see increased traffic as well) after work and on weekends, maybe using them to get to downtown for work too.

There are also lots of affordable housing options in the middle ring neighborhoods along South Blvd for when the 20 somethings outgrow the 800sq ft condos in south end... at which point the light rail might be more heavily used to get downtown to work in the mornings.

It's amazing to me this bunch, if they are so forward thinking, as a group do not use the public transportation that already exists in this city. Namely the city bus. (I am not speaking of express buses to the suburbs) What logic is it that would suggest that if they won't ride the city buses, they will instead use the LRT? If you look at who is riding the buses the demographics are anything but 20 something, college educated bank workers.

My guess is that once the newness wears off, most of the people riding the LRT will be the people who take the bus today. Sure you will get some people that will take it if they live right on the line and work right off the line, but it's hard to imagine that yuppies are going to give up their expensive foreign automobiles and SUVs and instead will start riding on the mass transit system.

It's great that Charlotte has started building a mass transit system, but I do have a few issues with how they are going about it. My biggest complaint about it is they are not forward thinking enough to build a system that will really make a difference in the city and it is being designed with the idea that everyone wants to go downtown which isn't the case.

[nmcheese]

Normal bus routes (excluding BRT) in this city have the same problems as cars - namely they sit in the same traffic and have to put up with the same construction. There are no time or convenience savings by taking the bus, and I have tried. South Park area to downtown takes nearly twice as long by bus as by car. Also, bus schedules are basically a joke and any longer routes end up with both busses back to back on all the stops just due to the way traffic piles up at certain times of the day. Even the current South Blvd route, while heavily used (no free seats the times I've ridden it in the afternoon) takes over twice as long as a car to traverse the same route because it adds individual stops on top of traffic.

I think it's less a class thing with younger people as an efficiency thing - I personally rarely have time to put up with the bus schedules/delays - unless my old foreign car is currently in some form of being taken apart. However, having used light rail exclusively in other cities, it doesn't suffer from those same drawbacks, and I plan on using it heavily in this city as well.

[stateman99]

I think people often develop their notions of a city and its culture when they arrive or early on, and rarely update those perceptions over time. I'll bet a lot of people in Charlotte still think of this place as being just like it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago. People still think downtown is dangerous, and the city is only filled with conservative suburbanites.

Frankly, I'll bet a majority of the city won't ever use light rail. Many will think is a boondoggle, even if it wildly exceeds CATS's expectations. To me, if only a few hundred people a year use LRT, but it continues to spur massive redevelopment and density along the corridor, it would still be successful. That is the primary goal of LRT, to direct redevelopment and revitalization so that growth can stay in the city without overrunning older neighborhoods.

But we all know that it will get pretty close to its ridership projections, as the feds require a very conservative approach.

Frankly, I would not worry about people complaining about LRT. The trolley, a very inexpensive project in the scheme of things, was considered a boondoggle and had the negative attentions of a many people, but then it was successful and that criticism wound to a halt. They will be proven wrong by reality.

Dub, i agree with you somewhat, but I think with this city growing as fast as it is, more people will move here without the preconceived ideas about the city that are willing to use the light rail. Again, I think over time with more people, the idea and people who use it will take off. I hope this made sense, I am trying to write quick before the boss gets back my way.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Look at the buses on South Blvd. They are usually 3/4 to full all the time. If part of this moves over to the LRT, there will be a good ridership. I think you will see a higher ridership that what has been projected.

[Creasy336]

People don't realize that this is the first transpotation of this type in the Carolinas. To be honest they'll be people from the carolinas who ride this train to maybe southend (or just a stop or two) because of the interest...its something new and different to alot of people who don't travel that much outside of the carolinas. I have no reason to ride light rail as of now but I will probably just for the heck of it. when I take loved ones to Charlotte I will take them on the light rail train to impress them on how Charlotte has progressed. People that ride light rail should find it enjoyable and convenient. The light rail has/will change everything on South BL for the better. This is one of the best things that could happen to Charlotte. Ridership will exceed expectations by far.

[MZT]

I use the South Blvd bus almost every day now -- it's so cheap using pretaxed commuter benefits, I decided to put up with it. Effectively, a buck a day in after-tax cost for work and back... 10 minutes to wait for it, 25 minutes riding. As far as I'm concerned it's about the same amount of time as it would take to drive, park in a deck, and walk to the office.

I'm sure the LRT will succeed. The ridership is strong on South Blvd anyway, and CATS will be rerouting crosstown traffic to use the light rail stations.

[reverbandwhiskey]

I wonder if they will be able to make the trains a little more pleasan than the busses. Every time i used a city bus here it was full of people and quite a bit of loud ghetto trash. It was packed, uncomfortable,smelled bad, and was too loud. They need to teach the riders how to act with a minimum level of class and respect for other passengers.

The busses also stop WAY too often along the South Blvd line. Some of the stops were maybe 100 feet apart. I can actually make the 10 mile ride faster on my bicycle.

[MZT]

The earlier in the morning you're willing to ride, the more subdued and quiet everyone is. Same thing seems to hold true late at night. For some reason it's the late morning and early evening passengers that are the noisiest.

I don't know why, but I get the impression people behave a little better on trains. Maybe the bus dimly reminds them, of old school days rowdiness and lack of discipline.

[kmccloud]

Reading comments like this makes me wonder what will happen when the LRT starts running and lower-class black folks are among the first to ride. Will middle/upper-class white folks say 'the hell with this' and stay away like they do the busses? Or is rail transit just so much more appealing that the "ghetto trash" will be suddenly be less scary to them?

>>I wonder if they will be able to make the trains a little more pleasan than the busses. Every time i used a city >>bus here it was full of people and quite a bit of loud ghetto trash. It was packed, uncomfortable,smelled bad, >>and was too loud. They need to teach the riders how to act with a minimum level of class and respect for >>other passengers.

[UrbanLifter]

Dilworth residents are fighting the City's TOD Zoning Laws for the South Light Rail Line. Residents are concerned that condo's up to 12 stories could tower over their homes and that a lack of parking could send those residents to park on their streets.

Dilworth is Charlotte's First Street Car Suburb. How ironic is it that mass transit that put Dilworth on the map in the early 1900's!

I know Dilworth has fought the City to preserve, protect and enhance the value of their neighborhood. IMO, the light rail line will ultimately enhance and increase the value of their homes. Imagine owning a single family home within walking distance of the city's first light rail line.

Dilworth light-rail dispute develops

[swh1972]

I can see their point on the parking issue, but I say "too bad" on the building height issue. You will have a hard time convincing people that an 8-story building down the street is bad for property values, and neighborhood feel. Sounds more like a case of fearing change.

[dubone]

It is a little ironic. Plus, you guys should definitely read the details on the TOD and PED. I read them last week online, but can't seem to find them right now. There is a 208 page document with all the specifics.

From my understanding, the plan requires some scale buffering, where dense projects would need to be adjusted so that the impact to neighboring homes would be minimized.

[UrbanLifter]

It is a little ironic. Plus, you guys should definitely read the details on the TOD and PED. I read them last week online, but can't seem to find them right now. There is a 208 page document with all the specifics.

From my understanding, the plan requires some scale buffering, where dense projects would need to be adjusted so that the impact to neighboring homes would be minimized.

I think this is the document to which you refer. Its rather large 12.8 MB.

South End Station Are Plan

One way to deal with the on street parking in Dilworth is to issue resident parking stickers. Without the sticker, the vehicle is pulled. Its used quite often here in Boston.

[MZT]

Every time a new multi goes in, the value of the remaining SFR's increases. The only people who should really be upset about this are home renters. At some point the land becomes too valueble to justify keeing it as a single family rental and they'll be squeezed out.

[dubone]

I was refering to these documents on the Dilworth plans: http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planni...lworth+Plan.htm

[ChiefJoJo]

It is no longer imperitave that transit be programmed in existing areas that will support transit. But it's becoming as important to develop transit where future growth could support transit.

Tell that to TTA in the Triangle area. There's a lot of free developable land for TOD, but not enough density currently to generate riderhip for FTA approval. Also from what I understand, FTA will not allow future land use adjustments in ridership buidout projections. So, given we are in an era where the current admin in Washington is anti-transit (read: no money), how is transit supposed to be implemented under this scenario?

[MZT]

They've actually put some rails down near the Scaleybark station. It looks as if a train might go through that area someday.

[dubone]

But the news is reporting that Subway sandwich sales are down this quarter because people driving by don't know it is open because there is so much construction. CATS should stop this rail construction progress immediately!

[rjp212]

Hahaha, yes stop it immediatly. We can't interrupt sandwich making.

[f0xym0p]

It's ridiculous if business owners can't realize that the light rail will dramatically increase their business in the future, even if they must suffer a little in the meantime. I'm sure it actually increased their business when it was announced as so much residential development has already occurred because of the prospect of the light rail, meaning more customers.

[SmellyCat]

But the news is reporting that Subway sandwich sales are down this quarter because people driving by don't know it is open because there is so much construction. CATS should stop this rail construction progress immediately!

Poor Jared. This could take a bite out of his $millions.

[dubone]

Let's also note the irony that Subway's decor theme and brand name is based on transit. Local tv consistently misses irony though.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Woodlawn steel work flyover complete.

[MZT]

Yeah they're moving poles and doing some work at the Tyvola intersection now, at the below-grade parking lot by the Suntrust bank.

That will be interesting to see how they solve. There is simply no room for sidewalk whatsoever on that southeast corner. So it will either involve a LOT of infill, or I suppose they could just shift all of South Blvd west several feet, to make space.