Walton Arts Center Location

[cocothief]

While losing the Walton Arts Center would hurt Dickson, I wouldn't be overly concerned with the impact on the economy. In my experience on Dickson, mostly college students support at least 60% of revenue for the bars and restaurants. Beyond that, it's locals and others that frequent regardless of what is going on at the WAC. I can't tell you how many times I've watched hundreds of people flock out of the WAC, straight to their cars, and away from Dickson. I've also been out to eat on Dickson before quite a few shows at WAC, and rarely have I noticed a larger crowd that was making its way to the WAC.

I tend to believe that the WAC draws a crowd that normally wouldn't be on Dickson, and hence has a limited effect on its overall economy (although it does add a lot in other areas).

I agree with this, but I'd add that WAC serves nowadays to diversify the people and atmosphere on Dickson Street by bringing in a more (truly, not STIR-patronizing) upscale crowd. I think losing WAC would make Dickson more one-dimensional, and some of the nicer places would leave.

[zman9810]

I agree with this, but I'd add that WAC serves nowadays to diversify the people and atmosphere on Dickson Street by bringing in a more (truly, not STIR-patronizing) upscale crowd. I think losing WAC would make Dickson more one-dimensional, and some of the nicer places would leave.

That's funny- I often stop in STIR before walking across Dickson to WAC, but then, I'm at STIR before most of their regular patrons show up and not quite upscale.

I agree that WAC's presence on Dickson Street is about more than just the crowds that attend peformances. It is still the linchpin of the entertaiment district- it helps make it more than just a bar and resturant area. When Fayetteville is recruting business to come here the cultural scene is one of the things they look at. WAC is THE performance venue for the region - to lose it would be a major blow to Fayetteville's attractiveness.

The economic impact of WAC is also measured in where the entertainers and their entourages stay when performing here. Some of the touring companies have large groups of people supporting their acts and normally stay in Fayetteville. The peformers normally stay and eat in Fayetteville. This impact would all move north with WAC if it goes.

[Mith242]

We all know that Dickson St changed once the WAC opened on it. Maybe Dickson St can do just fine without it. But I would have to agree with the others. I also think it adds more depth. I'm not sure I also want want to tempt fate and see how well Dickson St could do without it. I do think it's best for the city to do all it can to try to keep it here. maybe we're just spoiled here in Fayetteville, but I'm just used to being able to do everything I wanted here in the city. Just seems like more and more things are opening in Benton County instead. Not that I'm complaining about things like Crystal Bridges and such. But I'd hate to feel like many of the amenities will be outside the city in other parts of the metro.

[zman9810]

According to the consultant, the price tag for the Walton Arts Center's expansion is estimated at $180 million without a location chosen yet. That would pay for 106,000 sq ft with 2,200, 600 and 100 seat spaces if constructed by 2013. This would be an expansion that doesn't include the present Baum Walker Hall, which is the main theater in the present building. It would be used for smaller performances while the larger new one would be used for larger productions.

For comparison, Kansas City is constructing the Kaufman Performing Arts Center for $358 million. It will have 316,000 sq ft with spaces of 1800, 1600 and 250 seats. It is being built without taxpayer money, which is not the norm, but the city is building two parking garges for it.

The tone of this article indicated to me that the consultants are leaning towards recommending the the expansion happen away from the present site. This quote in particular makes me wonder "Right now, you have the franchise on the arts in Northwest Arkansas, and anything you do to keep that is a benefit to the region as a whole, wherever it's located." Who is the "you" that is being referred to- Fayetteville? I doubt it. Almost sounds like Doublespeak straight out of "1984".

Morning News article

[thewizard16]

These price tags stun me. I know major buildings are expensive, but that's insane. What exactly causes a building like that to cost in the hundreds of millions? (I also don't get why schools cost that much to build, I'm clearly missing something, I'm just curious to what it is)

[Mith242]

Yeah I know construction costs have really shot up in recent years. But I admit I would have thought $180 Mil would have bought more than a 2,200 seat theater for an art center. But I am assuming that like the article said, they are planning ahead and building something a little more upscale than the present location. I'm also assuming that the building will be fine tuned for acoustics and such and that probably drives up the costs as well.

[zman9810]

Considering the present building was built for less than $10 million only 15 years ago those figures are shocking but understandable. The whole press release goes into a little more detail about the costs and what is being considered.

It sounds like the present site is seen as a venue for the University to use for student productions while the major productions such as Broadway shows and big name artists will be at the new venue. Throwing out a large cost estimate might be a way to drive home the point that the financial concerns are the top priority in choosing a site.

WAC press release

[Mith242]

Considering the present building was built for less than $10 million only 15 years ago those figures are shocking but understandable. The whole press release goes into a little more detail about the costs and what is being considered.

It sounds like the present site is seen as a venue for the University to use for student productions while the major productions such as Broadway shows and big name artists will be at the new venue. Throwing out a large cost estimate might be a way to drive home the point that the financial concerns are the top priority in choosing a site.

WAC press release

Good point about throwing out the numbers to make sure people are really dedicated to something like this. I'm obviously biased for the current location. But really I can't say I'm a big fan of a lot of those other locations. I can't say I'm a fan of the other possible Fayetteville location for that matter. If they don't decide to expand at the current site the only other option I personally liked was having it near Crystal Bridges. All the other options seemed to place it mainly in sprawling areas of either north Fayetteville, west Springdale or west Rogers. I know they want room to grow. But I'd still think surely there's even some areas near downtown Rogers that would prove suitable over some of the current choices. I'm sure not everyone agrees, but I just think the main facility of the WAC should be located in a somewhat downtown setting.

[bubba72704]

Good point about throwing out the numbers to make sure people are really dedicated to something like this. I'm obviously biased for the current location. But really I can't say I'm a big fan of a lot of those other locations. I can't say I'm a fan of the other possible Fayetteville location for that matter. If they don't decide to expand at the current site the only other option I personally liked was having it near Crystal Bridges. All the other options seemed to place it mainly in sprawling areas of either north Fayetteville, west Springdale or west Rogers. I know they want room to grow. But I'd still think surely there's even some areas near downtown Rogers that would prove suitable over some of the current choices. I'm sure not everyone agrees, but I just think the main facility of the WAC should be located in a somewhat downtown setting.

For $180 Million they could buy the entire Fayetteville high school campus (about 40 acres and all buildings for a current pricetag of around $60 Million) and spend the remaining $120 Million on some sort of performing arts megastructure. To put it another way, for $180 Million you could build FOUR Arvest ballparks (less than $40 Million each) and still have another $20 Million left over.

Personally I feel that downtown Fayetteville is the best setting for an updated arts center, however $180 Million sounds terribly excessive. I'd be interested in seeing the pricetag for comparable projects around the country. My fear is that the Fayetteville administrators are trying to "keep up with the Joneses" by trying to out-spend the Crystal Bridges project. I'm hoping someone simply misplaced a decimal.

[Mith242]

For $180 Million they could buy the entire Fayetteville high school campus (about 40 acres and all buildings for a current pricetag of around $60 Million) and spend the remaining $120 Million on some sort of performing arts megastructure. To put it another way, for $180 Million you could build FOUR Arvest ballparks (less than $40 Million each) and still have another $20 Million left over.

Personally I feel that downtown Fayetteville is the best setting for an updated arts center, however $180 Million sounds terribly excessive. I'd be interested in seeing the pricetag for comparable projects around the country. My fear is that the Fayetteville administrators are trying to "keep up with the Joneses" by trying to out-spend the Crystal Bridges project. I'm hoping someone simply misplaced a decimal.

From what I've read in the paper today there is more involved than just a 2,200 seat performance hall. There's also a 600 seat flexible space and a 100 seat black box theater. Granted that price tag still sounds rather expensive for that. I'm wondering in part if they're wanting a building that stands out more. Perhaps something from a bigger name architect or a building with some unique architecture. Something to make it stand out more and maybe get a little recognition despite the size. If you were going to expand the current site then you'd need money for demolition of nearby buildings. But if you're building at one of those other sites that's basically 'empty' land, then you'd think there wouldn't be as much costs involved. I guess I'm basically just trying to throw out some ideas as to why this new facility would have costs that high. Maybe the performance hall would be built using precise (and expensive) acoustics. Perhaps something a bit more cutting edge than what you typically see. I don't know, hopefully we'll find out a little more in the future. But for now I guess the big question will be where will the facility be built.

[Sammy00]

I'm biased towards Fayetteville, but it just seems that the WAC adds so much to the environment of Fayetteville.

The funky, artsy, green, progressive vibe that I think everyone in Fayetteville loves.

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but to me it goes back to the way I view each city:

Forward-thinking Fayetteville.

Retail Rogers.

Businesslike Bentonville.

Industrial Springdale (out of good alliterations)

[Mith242]

I'm biased towards Fayetteville, but it just seems that the WAC adds so much to the environment of Fayetteville.

The funky, artsy, green, progressive vibe that I think everyone in Fayetteville loves.

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but to me it goes back to the way I view each city:

Forward-thinking Fayetteville.

Retail Rogers.

Businesslike Bentonville.

Industrial Springdale (out of good alliterations)

Yeah unfortunately we seemed to have become a more Fayetteville oriented forum and lost some of the Benton County aspect. It would have been nice to see some other views on it. I imagine every city can find one decent reason for the WAC locating to their city. I personally think it's more fitting near a downtown setting. But I'm sure there's many people who disagree with me. I'm not crazy about the idea of having it basically around a shopping center near the Pinnacle Hills area of Rogers. But some might argue that's where a lot of people are going to be and it belongs in a place where people will regularly visit. I do find it ironic that while the study has admitted the university certainly plays an important factor into the WAC they still could pick a location that's actually further away from it. I imagine one of the bigger problems the current Fayetteville has is even if they have room for the current expansion, is there any room for future expansion? I believe that is one of the factors being looked at. Trying to plan ahead so that future expansion plans can come about. Especially if the metro keeps growing like many are predicting. Another possible problem with Fayetteville is that even though it's the biggest city in the metro, there's more people in Benton County and it's growing faster than Washington County. But Fayetteville certainly has positive reasons for keeping it here as well. But I think Fayetteville needs to consider what the committee is going to look at and what people from the other cities are going to say for reasons not keeping it in Fayetteville.

[bubba72704]

From what I've read in the paper today there is more involved than just a 2,200 seat performance hall. There's also a 600 seat flexible space and a 100 seat black box theater. Granted that price tag still sounds rather expensive for that. I'm wondering in part if they're wanting a building that stands out more. Perhaps something from a bigger name architect or a building with some unique architecture. Something to make it stand out more and maybe get a little recognition despite the size. If you were going to expand the current site then you'd need money for demolition of nearby buildings. But if you're building at one of those other sites that's basically 'empty' land, then you'd think there wouldn't be as much costs involved. I guess I'm basically just trying to throw out some ideas as to why this new facility would have costs that high. Maybe the performance hall would be built using precise (and expensive) acoustics. Perhaps something a bit more cutting edge than what you typically see. I don't know, hopefully we'll find out a little more in the future. But for now I guess the big question will be where will the facility be built.

Just looking at the GIS maps of downtown Fayetteville I can't really see a parcel(s) large enough to suit their needs. They're saying the total footprint would be around 106,000 sq. feet for the new center. That's almost 2.5 acres under one roof! Once you include parking, greenspace, proximity to downtown, etc., I just don't see many options except for the current site. Apparently the city of fayetteville owns the whole block -- about 4 acres (That includes the WAC offices and "Grubs", both of which sit to the south of the main bldg.). And the way the current building sits diagonally (sp?) it would be very hard to add on. My personal preference would be to bulldoze the current building and start anew on the same lot.

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse here, but I still can't get over the price tag. I did a bit more math... For a 106,000 sq. ft. structure, the $180M pricetag breaks down to just under $1,700 per square foot. To your point, though, I would guess that they don't want to go the economical route with this building. They're wanting a structure that's a work of art, not a square box made of concrete blocks and a metal roof....

[masons_dad1]

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse here, but I still can't get over the price tag. I did a bit more math... For a 106,000 sq. ft. structure, the $180M pricetag breaks down to just under $1,700 per square foot. To your point, though, I would guess that they don't want to go the economical route with this building. They're wanting a structure that's a work of art, not a square box made of concrete blocks and a metal roof....

I don't get the $180M pricetag. Even if construction costs have doubled since 2000 (which they haven't) that's just far too high a pricetag for a theater of this scale, as planned. I did a little shopping around and found a very nice theater that easily doubles the size of the planned new WAC, but also at half the cost (as of 2000)... oh and it's also one of the premier theaters in Hollywood, CA and is actually quite a work of art.

Check out: Kodak Theatre (3,400 seat theatre opened November 2001 at a cost of $94 million)

P.S.: It's also located in a similar location as the Pinnacle Hills Promenade (or at least what's envisioned for it). Maybe something the planners for the new WAC need to consider. Shopping, dining and entertainment destinations like the Promenade may draw more theatre-goers than a smaller downtown entertainment district... or maybe not.

[Edit] Oh and sorry in advance if this post is negative in any way. Just trying to figure out where the $180M pricetag comes from? If anyone else could phrase what I just posted in a less negative or more inspiring way please enlighten me.

[Mith242]

As far as the price goes I guess we'll just have to wait until we're further along the process. By then hopefully we'll hear more details as to why this project would cost so much. Thanks for the info on the Kodak Theater. While construction costs have risen since the beginning of the decade. The current cost projections still seem rather steep for what's being currently entailed.

[bubba72704]

As far as the price goes I guess we'll just have to wait until we're further along the process. By then hopefully we'll hear more details as to why this project would cost so much. Thanks for the info on the Kodak Theater. While construction costs have risen since the beginning of the decade. The current cost projections still seem rather steep for what's being currently entailed.

Yeah... I guess we have no other option but to wait. I'm guessing the consultant that threw out this $180M number gave zero details as to how he came to this number? Does anyone know? I'd love to see an itemized estimate. I'd also love to hear what kind of guidance city administrators gave him on strategy/wants/needs, etc.

[Mith242]

Yeah... I guess we have no other option but to wait. I'm guessing the consultant that threw out this $180M number gave zero details as to how he came to this number? Does anyone know? I'd love to see an itemized estimate. I'd also love to hear what kind of guidance city administrators gave him on strategy/wants/needs, etc.

That's my understanding. I haven't seen any details what so ever on how this figure came about. There was an editorial in the paper today about the WAC. This person seemed to be under the impression that they just didn't think there was enough room at the current site to expand. But I think there is. Although I think you'd have to admit there wouldn't be any room after that. Not unless the city could find someone nearby to buy out. They could add on to the south of the current site. The only problem is that would mean changing the thought of putting a parking garage there. Which would also mean whenever they eventually put up a parking garage at the current parking lot across the street, there's going to be problems with not enough space while the construction is going on. I hate to speculate but I just keep getting a bad feeling that they'll end up picking another site. Yeah they'll still have the current site for the smaller shows, but it would seem like much of a 'victory' there. If any problems ever arose in the future it would also mean the current site could get the ax altogether.

[zman9810]

Yeah... I guess we have no other option but to wait. I'm guessing the consultant that threw out this $180M number gave zero details as to how he came to this number? Does anyone know? I'd love to see an itemized estimate. I'd also love to hear what kind of guidance city administrators gave him on strategy/wants/needs, etc.

The $180 million is just a very conceptual design estimate. The WAC press release link in post #57 of this topic gives some idea of how they came up with it. The City of Fayetteville gave no guidance because the consultant company is employed by the Walton Arts Center, which is a separate entity from the city.

The only way this plan will work in the present area is to build on the parking lot across West Ave. Parking could go under the building or at the back of the lot. More likely parking would be bult behind the present building and possibly on land that is acquired later. Several property owners in the area have expressd a willingness to sell if it means keeping WAC downtown.

If the present location is chosen it would seem that the 600 seat and black box theater spaces wouldn't need to be built as the present building could be used for these. That would help bring the expense down to a more reasonable price.

[zman9810]

I am always surprised by how perspectives on the same public events/debates can differ so much. In this article about the Walton Arts Center's renovation of the current facility in Fayetteville, WAC board member Curt Rom says

[Mith242]

I am always surprised by how perspectives on the same public events/debates can differ so much. In this article about the Walton Arts Center's renovation of the current facility in Fayetteville, WAC board member Curt Rom says

[slyder1]

After reading through this topic, I don't understand why this WAC committee doesn't want to bulldoze the current building. Is is parking?... Is is lack of space?... If they are basing this off of a parking garage not fitting then that would be ludicrous. People will park elsewhere and walk, you don't need a parking garage attached to the building. But yes, it would be nice to have it there. Anyway's taking this off Dickson would be very stupid as it would take away that artsy/performance feel to the Dickson/ Downtown area. Here is Springfield Juanita K. Hammon's Hall is actually on the MSU campus which is downtown in the Walnut street area. To me the whole area would feel different if it was built off a highway somewhere. Take for instance the First Friday Artwalks. There is alway's a performance going on in the Hall during these Monthly Artwalks wether it be the Springfield Symphony or a braodway play. What if Fayetteville started an artwalk and the WAC was in Rogers somewhere... It just wouldn't feel right. Why don't they try and get corporate donations, or try and sell naming rights! I just don't like the fact that they would move this to a suburban scene instead of keeping it around the Dickson/ UofA area.

[Mith242]

After reading through this topic, I don't understand why this WAC committee doesn't want to bulldoze the current building. Is is parking?... Is is lack of space?... If they are basing this off of a parking garage not fitting then that would be ludicrous. People will park elsewhere and walk, you don't need a parking garage attached to the building. But yes, it would be nice to have it there. Anyway's taking this off Dickson would be very stupid as it would take away that artsy/performance feel to the Dickson/ Downtown area. Here is Springfield Juanita K. Hammon's Hall is actually on the MSU campus which is downtown in the Walnut street area. To me the whole area would feel different if it was built off a highway somewhere. Take for instance the First Friday Artwalks. There is always a performance going on in the Hall during these Monthly Artwalks whether it be the Springfield Symphony or a broadway play. What if Fayetteville started an artwalk and the WAC was in Rogers somewhere... It just wouldn't feel right. Why don't they try and get corporate donations, or try and sell naming rights! I just don't like the fact that they would move this to a suburban scene instead of keeping it around the Dickson/ UofA area.

I think part of the fact is they want to be able to keep performances they scheduled to continue as work would be going on. The building is set way off the street so it sorta wastes a lot of potential space. When it was built I don't think they planned for any future growth at all. I'm thinking for one they just don't want space for current expansion but room to grow for more growth in the future. I don't think the parking is playing a huge role in the issue now. It seems Fayetteville would be pretty committed to building a parking garage if the WAC was committed to keeping the Dickson St location as the main facility in NWA. I also think a lot of this comes down to a number of people in Benton County wanting the main facility in their county. Benton County has outgrown and surpassed Washington County. So they could argue they have more population and last I checked Benton County is still growing faster than Washington County. Another big factor is that there's quite a few wealthy patrons up in Benton County. I hate to be pessimistic, but I just get the feeling the committee is going to end up saying that Benton County should be the location for their main facility. Yeah the Dickson St location will still be there. But all the big performances would be at the main facility.

[zman9810]

I think part of the fact is they want to be able to keep performances they scheduled to continue as work would be going on. The building is set way off the street so it sorta wastes a lot of potential space. When it was built I don't think they planned for any future growth at all. I'm thinking for one they just don't want space for current expansion but room to grow for more growth in the future. I don't think the parking is playing a huge role in the issue now. It seems Fayetteville would be pretty committed to building a parking garage if the WAC was committed to keeping the Dickson St location as the main facility in NWA. I also think a lot of this comes down to a number of people in Benton County wanting the main facility in their county. Benton County has outgrown and surpassed Washington County. So they could argue they have more population and last I checked Benton County is still growing faster than Washington County. Another big factor is that there's quite a few wealthy patrons up in Benton County. I hate to be pessimistic, but I just get the feeling the committee is going to end up saying that Benton County should be the location for their main facility. Yeah the Dickson St location will still be there. But all the big performances would be at the main facility.

I think you are right - the WAC is being treated as a trophy that validates Benton County's place as top dog in the metro. When the current site was chosen Fayetteville was the place to be for everything thing except Walmart Home, chickens and big trucks- now the balance has shifted north as places lke the Promenade, Embassy Suites, Hammons Convention Center and Pinnacle evidence.

Moving the main facility of the WAC north is a mistake though. Fayetteville has the entertainment district and Universityof Arkansas and neither can be duplicated elsewhere. The atmosphere along Dickson Street is ideal for the performing arts center and moving it away will harm both the entertainment district and the WAC.

[Mith242]

Well the consultants finally released their recommendations for the Walton Arts Center. They did recommend an additional facility. Sounds like the idea of trying to expand the current facility won't be happening. I guess for one it could be too detrimental for the current events. I'm also not sure if there would be enough room. It also sounds like they they will certainly keep the current facilities to use for the smaller groups and such. The consultants didn't rule it down to one location though. They recommended either somewhere in downtown Fayetteville or near Crystal Bridges in Bentonville. The Pinnacle Hills area of Rogers wasn't recommended. Of course I'm biased for a downtown Fayetteville location. But if it had to be anywhere else I would certainly pick a location near Crystal Bridges. Now will come the fundraising for the $180 Mil facility and also deciding which location to go with. I'm wondering if there's more big donations from Benton County if that could seal the deal for Bentonville. I've gotten the impression that there is more donation money from Benton County than Washington County. No idea how long it will take them to make some sort of decision. I guess they might not make a final decision till they get a substantial amount of the money raised.

[Aporkalypse]

Well the consultants finally released their recommendations for the Walton Arts Center. They did recommend an additional facility. Sounds like the idea of trying to expand the current facility won't be happening. I guess for one it could be too detrimental for the current events. I'm also not sure if there would be enough room. It also sounds like they they will certainly keep the current facilities to use for the smaller groups and such. The consultants didn't rule it down to one location though. They recommended either somewhere in downtown Fayetteville or near Crystal Bridges in Bentonville. The Pinnacle Hills area of Rogers wasn't recommended. Of course I'm biased for a downtown Fayetteville location. But if it had to be anywhere else I would certainly pick a location near Crystal Bridges. Now will come the fundraising for the $180 Mil facility and also deciding which location to go with. I'm wondering if there's more big donations from Benton County if that could seal the deal for Bentonville. I've gotten the impression that there is more donation money from Benton County than Washington County. No idea how long it will take them to make some sort of decision. I guess they might not make a final decision till they get a substantial amount of the money raised.

This is all a setup for the Walton Foundation or another Benton Co donor to come in and pay for a chunk of it and dictate it be done in Benton Co. I think the plan has been there to move it all along and that this is being done the way it is in order to not ruffle any feather in Fayetteville.