Northlake Mall

[atlrvr]

Phipps....though they do have a movie theatre.

[atlrvr]

In my humble opinion, the reason that large stores such as NM and Nordstroms have gone lower market is that many people preceived them as "big-box". They have the perception of being up-market among the masses, where-as the true high-end shopper will seek out a specialty shop or custom tailor. If I was in the market for the $2,000 suit, why shop at Nordstroms where that would be the top end, where at Taylor Richards and Conger across the street where that is mid-line and there are tons of options.

Same for shoes, same for women's apparel.

This is why store like Burberry and LV are experiencing tremendous booms. It is somewhat comparable to the return to urban environments. People are returning to the way things were (i.e. specialty stores), and the only way to compensate for this is the large luxury boxes is to lower their key demographic to appeal to a larger demo. Nordstroms here is very comparable to the SP Belk, and both stores have outstanding sales per square foot.

That was rambling.

Edited May 16, 2005 by atlrvr

[SmellyCat]

First of all, Smellycat ranked SouthPark as one of the most premier upscale malls in the country. Americana was one of the examples of that statement not being entirely true.

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huh?

[SmellyCat]

In the meantime, Simon did what any smart developer would do.  To round out the mall, they sidestepped the unsure retailers and filled the empty spaces with better-known chains that will likely be eradicated after their leases run out in favor of the upmarket stores that should have been in those spaces in the first place.  There's no sense in leaving a mall with empty spaces when you can make money off stores that add to the continuity and appeal of the mall.

What carries SouthPark is the total mix of stores, not the boutiques, not the American Eagle or Banana Republic, not even Nordstrom.

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Thanks steven. This is a GREAT point which I failed to make. SP will continue to fill those mid-tier stores with high-end ones as the leases roll. It will only get better.

[DigitalSky]

Mahansset is what i'd dub "ultra upscale" whereas SouthPark is just upscale.

[QC704]

I liked south park better when I could afford clothing there.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

huh? 

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I was trying to explain why I brought up Americana....

I think if an Americana-like mall opened in Charlotte today, it wouldn't do very well. That would be overkill for this market. It would be too much, too soon. Americana is primarily designed for people who don't want to make the trek into Manhattan to shop.

SouthPark is a nice mall. I just don't think it's particularly special. But I've shopped nearly everywhere, so my opinion is biased. Plus, my interests don't dictate what everyone will want. I can think of several stores that I would like to see here, but I know most people wouldn't really care about them. I do worry that too many people don't shop at LV, Burberry, etc. choosing instead to browse thinking someone else will do all the buying to support these stores. I worry behavior like that could ultimately hurt SP, but only time will tell.

Ok, I need to go work out....

[peaceloveunderstanding]

LV, Burberry?!?!?! Just cause it has a cool name does not make it special. I really don't understand the higher class stores in what makes them special other then buying of a higher class, all the higher class stores I have been to essentially sell the same knicknacks. or maybe they don't. I have not been to a mall in 3 years so I don't know anything.

Amazon is my domain!

Edited May 16, 2005 by moonshield

[monsoon]

Amazon is my domain!

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Agreed! I haven't been in any Charlotte mall since 1998 I think. I simply don't see the need.

[DigitalSky]

Agreed!  I haven't been in any Charlotte mall since 1998 I think.  I simply don't see the need.

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I don't think i could go that long w/o being in a Charlotte mall. I'd be curious to see how much the mall had (or had not) changed. Then again, I had gone to Eastland only last year which was my first time there since 98

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I don't want to walk into the new SP because I will be corrupted and become quite broke.

[StevenRocks]

Wel, this turned into a lively discussion real quick

dubone: I think chains like Lids, PacSun, American Eagle and Express will likely get the boot when the mall is gradually re-leased. Not just because they're downscale, but also because every other mall in the market has them. Think of it like this: in the past few years, SouthPark has removed Harris Teeter, General Cinema, Sears, Morrison's Cafeteria, GNC, Radio Shack and Julie's, among others, because they really didn't fit the direction the mall was going in.

_____

girly: first off, I didn't mean my comments in anger or to contradict you. I like your shopping choices.

That said:

-- Neiman-Marcus SouthPark will be the second smallest NM in the country, but it's still NM. NM wouldn't invest in this market if they didn't have confidence it would succeed. The wole market has moved towards democratized fashion and while it's true that NM has changed to meet its customers' lifestyle demends, IT'S STILL NEIMAN MARCUS. They may carry sneakers, but they're Gucci and Prada sneakers.

-- I found out my sales information at the better SouthPark retailers the old fashioned way, I asked. Also, I doubt if Tiffany and St. John were doing badly they would have invested in Charlotte stores twice as large as the ones they had.

-- SouthPark already had stores like Express. they went after the boutiques. if you don't believe me, I'll post the documents to prove it.

I ain't mad at ya, I'm just tryin to prove a point.

_____

atlrvr, SmellyCat, cantnot: right on

_____

QC704: you still got relatively inexpensive choices at SouthPark, but you have to look harder for them

_____

moonshield: I love Amazon too, but on the other point you're starting to sound like monsoon driving to Wal-Mart in his Mercedes You should really stop by SouthPark these days. It rocks (no pun intended)

[dubone]

i'm surprised about the inclusion of express as being on the chopping block, as they just opened a much larger store. i know my wife spends our life savings on their editor pants, but she does that at both eastland and southpark, depending on selection. (eastland is cheaper and has more selection... the upside to a dying mall).

[StevenRocks]

i'm surprised about the inclusion of express as being on the chopping block, as they just opened a much larger store.

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It's just an opinion. I don't really know what the status is with that store. But Express and Victoria's Secret at SouthPark are huge. Something about their size makes me a little nervous. Usually if you see a mall store with that big an inline space, they're headed for trouble somewhere along the line.

[SmellyCat]

Agreed!  I haven't been in any Charlotte mall since 1998 I think.  I simply don't see the need.

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monsoon - heck, I don't go to southpark to shop. That's for women. I go to ogle at the awesome talent!!

[monsoon]

monsoon - heck, I don't go to southpark to shop.  That's for women.  I go to ogle at the awesome talent!! 

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Hmm. Not sure exactly what that means.

[HOTSPOTTNY]

First of all, Smellycat ranked SouthPark as one of the most premier upscale malls in the country. Americana was one of the examples of that statement not being entirely true. We both listed malls that are IMO better malls with a higher percentage of high-end stores than SouthPark.

I already stated that SP has potential to be a great mall. Of course, in that time there will be other more exclusive malls to open that will challenege my assertion. It's a fact of our crazy retail industry. The "upscale lifestyle center" is one of the hottest trends now.

Lots of malls expanded and some have opened for business during the economic downturn. However, most high-end stores are still playing it safe in some regard. Look at Neiman Marcus, both at SouthPark and on a national level. The store at SP is the 2nd smallest in the country. They want to be here, but they don't want to take a big chance either. Since 2000 NM has greatly reduced the amount of true luxury goods they carry while expanding their less expensive "junior trends" division. That's also where NM has seen the biggest upswing in sales. As for LV, Burberry and Tiffany repaing major rewards, please provide the data for the individual stores. Thanks. Also, which new high-end retailers are trying to move into SouthPark? Again, thank you.

No, Simon did what they do with most of their malls. That's how they develop them to drive traffic. However, I don't think they used retailers like Express to "round out" the mall. They went to those retailers first since they're most likely to expand.

Stores/brands like Banana Republic carry the entire fashion retail industry. You think they don't carry the malls, too? MOST people will shop BR BEFORE they shop LV. Brands like LV have a higher price point, but in the U.S. they don't sell quite as well as the less expensive brands. This isn't Hong Kong, ya know.

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GIRLY i've noticed that you always have something negative to say about CLT. No southpark mall isn't the best mall in the USA but it's promoting well and is an upcoming top 15 upscale malls.NEXT question " How many upscale stores do the city you live in, have?There are many stores in the area that are upscale and carry highend clothing and footwear that are not in the mall so again I think you haven't been around the whole city of CLT.I'm from NY as you know and I know upscale shopping when I see it .As far as NM goes yes they are opening a smaller store in SP but they are hard to get in any market period and the markets that do get NM WILL BE A SMALLER STORE.YOU don't hear about alot of cities getting a NM lately and thats a good thing unlike SAKS POPPING UP EVERYWHERE.Lastly,SP has cheesecake factory which is popping up everywhere too, but they also have morton's and mccormick and schmicks, SO UPSCALE IS A GOOD TITLE FOR THIS MALL.

[SmellyCat]

Hmm.  Not sure exactly what that means.

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Oh, just that upscale malls generally attract upscale women. There is a lot of upscale eye candy milling around SP mall.

[StevenRocks]

Oh, just that upscale malls generally attract upscale women.  There is a lot of upscale eye candy milling around SP mall.

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I know what you're saying SmellyCat and it's definately a good reason to go to SouthPark!

[monsoon]

Oh, just that upscale malls generally attract upscale women.  There is a lot of upscale eye candy milling around SP mall.

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If you say so. This bunch hangs out at Nordstroms

hmmm. Can't say I see much difference between this lot and the crowds I run into at SuperWalmart on Hwy 16.

[SmellyCat]

If you say so.  This bunch hangs out at Nordstroms   

hmmm.  Can't say I see much difference between this lot and the crowds I run into at SuperWalmart on Hwy 16. 

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Ewwww....holy schnikies, that is God-awful! Are you sure these old bags/soccer moms weren't handed out free coupons by Nordstroms to create a buzz for the opening? Cause that sure don't look like any Southpark crowd to me

Actually, now that I think about it...I've never shopped in Nordstroms, so maybe it really is an older lady hangout.

[DigitalSky]

I don't think that picture though is a fair representation, or a sampling, of people who do shop at SouthPark. It was just Nordstrom's opening day... not necessairly their typical everyday customer

[monsoon]

I don't think that picture though is a fair representation, or a sampling, of people who do shop at SouthPark. It was just Nordstrom's opening day... not necessairly their typical everyday customer

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Do you think they don't look as good as this on regular days?

[StevenRocks]

Do you think they don't look as good as this on regular days?

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Actually, most days the SouthPark crowds look as good as SmellyCat described them. Definately better than the Wal-Mart Supercenter lineup.

A lot of the people in those pictures wanted to see what Nordstrom was like and I'd bet that a number of them haven't been back since, unless they were going to Belk or The Cheesecake Factory, which seem to pull just about every demographic group out there.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

GIRLY i've noticed that you always have something negative to say about CLT. No southpark mall isn't the best mall in the USA but it's promoting well and is an upcoming top 15 upscale malls.NEXT question " How many upscale stores do the city you live in, have?There are many stores in the area that are upscale and carry highend clothing and footwear that are not in the mall so again I think you haven't been around the whole city of CLT.I'm from NY as you know and I know upscale shopping when I see it .As far as NM goes yes they are opening a smaller store in SP but they are hard to get in any market period and the markets that do get NM WILL BE A SMALLER STORE.YOU don't hear about alot of cities getting a NM lately and thats a good thing unlike SAKS POPPING UP EVERYWHERE.Lastly,SP has cheesecake factory which is popping up everywhere too, but they also have morton's and mccormick and schmicks, SO UPSCALE IS A GOOD TITLE FOR THIS MALL.

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Actually, I don't always have something negative to say about Charlotte. I try to view things critically. I look at both the POSITIVE and NEGATIVE. If you read, rather than jumping to conclusions you, you would see I actually wrote it was a nice mall and has potential to be better.

FYI... I actually live in Charlotte. For some reason, I doubt you do. I notice most of the Charlotte forumners have both positive and negative things to say about this city. Most importantly, their opinions about Charlotte are rooted in REALITY. In other words, they speak as if they know this city. You, OTOH, do not. Do you just enjoy sh*t stirring? I ask because you seem to make this same "Pro-Charlotte at all costs" post on all the city discussion forums. If Charlotte's residents are not allowed to critically assess the city, then who is? Move to Charlotte, then MAYBE I'll start to take you seriously.

P.S. I have lived in NYC and take frequent shopping trips there during the year. I am familiar with the retail amenities in that city.

To StevenRocks- No hard feelings at all. I enjoy discussing retail with someone who likes to shop! BTW- Bob Ellis at SouthPark has a better selection of Gucci and Prada shoes than Neiman Marcus. Although Jeffrey is the talent and star of the family, The Kalinskys as a whole do tend to have excellent taste!

Edited May 20, 2005 by girly