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Is Haywood the next McAlister?

vicupstate

By vicupstate
in Greenville

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gman430 Megalopolis

gman430

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I dont think this has been brought up, is the Babies R Us independent store on the Chick fil a side moving as well?

Yes it is. DSW and TJ Maxx are slated for the Toys R Us space once they move. Haven't heard if anything is planned for the Babies R Us space.

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mallguy Town

mallguy

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I don't see the Brooks Bros. and Anthropologie downtown as killing Haywood Mall (certainly not by a long shot), but maybe those two stores, combined with whatever higher-end national chains also come downtown, will have the same effect on Haywood as King Street has on Charleston's malls: it's left them as mid-tier properties that do not have a lock on destination retail? 

 

I see that Citadel Mall was listed in the Wall Street Journal as a low-performing mall (although it seemed to be doing fine when I last went there in the mid-2000s), in part due to inability to attract higher-end chains that go to King Street.

 

At some point Sears and maybe JCPenney will be going under, leaving Haywood with just 3 of 5 remaining anchors.  That will certainly complicate Haywood's future.

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101_ce Hamlet

101_ce

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In reality, a department store such as Nordstrom would probably open in the JCPenney space. You have to remember that there is a parking deck in front of the JCPenney store, so there is not enough space and visibility for a lifestyle wing. However, new Nordstrom stores in smaller markets are around 120,000 square feet, exactly the same size as the JCPenney store. A lifestyle wing would have to go were Sears is. The only problem is that Nordstrom and the more upscale stores in the mall would want to be in the same place. Another department store could go there, but I'm not sure. I still dislike Von Maur, very much, but I do admit I would be more likely to shop there than Sears or JCPenney. Haywood has much less to worry about than the Asheville Mall. The mall is very old and ugly and basically just disgusting. If they lost their Sears and JCPenney, they will only be left with Belk and Dillard's. The Sears is too big, old, and tacky for Macy's, and JCPenney is in an odd spot. I don't think Macy's would be willing to spend the money to put a new store in such a crappy mall. All of our good stores are opening in Biltmore Village. We have J. Crew, Brooks Brothers, Chico's, White House Black Market, Williams-Sonoma, J. Jill, etc. there. Asheville Mall used to have Ann Taylor, Godiva, Express, The Limited, etc. but they all closed and have not relocated. Haywood is much more lucky since they have better stores. 

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mallguy Town

mallguy

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Why is Biltmore Village doing so well; is it in an upper-income area or something, while Asheville Mall isn't?

 

Maybe dowtown Greenville could be to Haywood like Biltmore Village is to Asheville Mall, but Haywood is probably in closer proximity to more upper-income areas than downtown is (which has West Greenville next to it).

 

I still don't see Nordstrom coming to Greenville at any point in the near future; I think that Parisian was as good as we could get for department stores.

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StrangeCock Hamlet

StrangeCock

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I don't see the Brooks Bros. and Anthropologie downtown as killing Haywood Mall (certainly not by a long shot), but maybe those two stores, combined with whatever higher-end national chains also come downtown, will have the same effect on Haywood as King Street has on Charleston's malls

 

Yuck...I'd certainly hope not. That wouldn't be good for Haywood OR Main Street.

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101_ce Hamlet

101_ce

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Why is Biltmore Village doing so well; is it in an upper-income area or something, while Asheville Mall isn't?

 

Maybe dowtown Greenville could be to Haywood like Biltmore Village is to Asheville Mall, but Haywood is probably in closer proximity to more upper-income areas than downtown is (which has West Greenville next to it).

 

I still don't see Nordstrom coming to Greenville at any point in the near future; I think that Parisian was as good as we could get for department stores.

Biltmore Village is not really in a residential area so much, but it is very close to Biltmore Forest. The left side of US-25 in that area is very high income, while the right side is mostly lower income. Also, Biltmore Village is in a tourist area and is on the main road into Asheville from I-40. Also, it is right in front of the entrance to the Biltmore Estate, so they probably have some influence over what goes into the area and the designs, because all of the buildings in Biltmore Village have a tudor theme, even the McDonald's, which has a piano inside. That is where one of the best hotels in Asheville, The Grand Bohemian, a Marriott property, is and our Ruth's Chris is. They are adding another section with more retail. I am hoping for a Pottery Barn and Sephora. The Asheville Mall, however, probably has more lower income areas nearby, and also has some more bad areas, including a dead mall, fast food restaurants, and very cheap motels. It sort of reminds me of Haywood and Laurens Roads, however it is hopefully getting better since Kmart has closed and is being replaced with a Whole Foods. I would say that downtown Haywood Mall really isn't like Asheville Mall. The only more upscale store AVL Mall has is Banana Republic. They have an A&F, VS, Gap, etc. but that isn't anything special like what Biltmore Village and Haywood Mall have. 

I don't think Greenville would get a Nordstrom for a while, either. For me in Asheville, Charlotte isn't much farther and I have more places to go and it makes a difference already having salespeople in Charlotte that you work with. I think that the Haywood JCPenney does a lot better than Sears at Haywood does, so maybe only one will close? Both aren't doing well at all and I would definitely not miss them if they closed. L&T is good, but I was kind of turned off from them after having someone be rude to me over their online CS chat. 

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perrykat Whistle-Stop

perrykat

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I don't think neither JCPenney nor Sears will close soon at Haywood, unless the entire chains go under, and I doubt that will be happening soon although both have a long road if they are to return to profitability.  Actually, people keep mentioning Sears but JCP is doing way worse right now (their sales last year were absolutely horrid, while sales at Sears sales are rather stable in comparison).  JCP has been pouring money in to their Haywood store and Sears is remodeling currently.  I realize I'm in a very small minority here, but I, personally, hope neither close.  Not everyone has the money to shop at Von Maur or Nordstrom (myself included).

 

Those stores aren't going to close their only locations in the GVL area unless the entire chains go under, which could happen (although I don't think both would).  I can see both closing some underperforming stores (as Sears has been doing for a while), but I don't think their only Greenville stores are going anywhere.  No decent sized city lacks either of those stores.

 

Haywood has done just fine with all of the higher end stores at Greenridge.  If they can keep the stores they have, which shouldn't be difficult, I think they will be fine.  Greenridge hasn't hurt them that badly, if at all.

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scgubers Whistle-Stop

scgubers

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I don't think neither JCPenney nor Sears will close soon at Haywood, unless the entire chains go under, and I doubt that will be happening soon although both have a long road if they are to return to profitability.  Actually, people keep mentioning Sears but JCP is doing way worse right now (their sales last year were absolutely horrid, while sales at Sears sales are rather stable in comparison).  JCP has been pouring money in to their Haywood store and Sears is remodeling currently.  I realize I'm in a very small minority here, but I, personally, hope neither close.  Not everyone has the money to shop at Von Maur or Nordstrom (myself included).

 

Those stores aren't going to close their only locations in the GVL area unless the entire chains go under, which could happen (although I don't think both would).  I can see both closing some underperforming stores (as Sears has been doing for a while), but I don't think their only Greenville stores are going anywhere.  No decent sized city lacks either of those stores.

 

Haywood has done just fine with all of the higher end stores at Greenridge.  If they can keep the stores they have, which shouldn't be difficult, I think they will be fine.  Greenridge hasn't hurt them that badly, if at all.

You bring up Greenridge which is interesting and I think in fact has the most to lose as Downtown draws in national retailers. I don't think Greenridge will continue to improve. It'll continue to be a glorified strip mall that serves the suburbs, unless it is able to attract a stand alone Nordstrom or Von Maur. I could certainly see either of them filling an eventually empty Best Buy.

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perrykat Whistle-Stop

perrykat

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You bring up Greenridge which is interesting and I think in fact has the most to lose as Downtown draws in national retailers. I don't think Greenridge will continue to improve. It'll continue to be a glorified strip mall that serves the suburbs, unless it is able to attract a stand alone Nordstrom or Von Maur. I could certainly see either of them filling an eventually empty Best Buy.

I can't really see Nordstrom or Von Maur locating amongst Marshall's, Petsmart, Ross, Lowe's, OfficeMax, etc.  Greenridge has some upscale smaller tenants, but not much as far as larger ones.

 

I don't think Haywood has anything to worry about.  Worst case scenario for them is eventually they lose a few higher end tenants or one of the anchors, but they have plenty of other stores that aren't going to bolt downtown or anywhere else....the vast majority of them.  I agree that downtown is a bigger threat to Greenridge.  Haywood survived Greenridge fine and will survive downtown developments.  Haywood has so many mid-level stores that have their sole Greenville location there that will always draw.  The mid-level stores draw way more traffic than J. Crew, Guess, etc. at Haywood, at least when I'm there on the weekend.

 

Asheville Mall was mentioned here.  I haven't been there in AGES, but from what I can see, I don't think that mall has any danger of slipping in to "dead" state any time soon.  If it can hold its mid-level tenants and is safe, it will be fine, sort of like Westgate in Spartanburg or the malls in Charleston.  Hasn't The Limited at Haywood been closed for quite a while also?

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