John McCain for President

[monsoon]

I listened to McCain's speech at a GM plant in Ohio today. Poor fellow really can't give a good speech as he just babbled on almost incoherently on and endless string of unconnected topics. And he called up ancient anecdotes like stories about Charles Limburgh that most today simply won't identify with.

[Charlotteman]

Sen. Thad Cochran-R Mississippi has come forward with memories of a 1987 meeting in Nicaragua---John McCain was in attendance and (according to Cochran) McCain became overheated and grabbed a Sandinista representative by his collar and pulled him out of his seat.

Now "Cochran's people" and "McCain's people" are saying such an event never happened......

[Charlotteman]

Johnnie McCain does not seem to be aware of an unspoken rule in politics: be careful what you challenge an opponent to do. McCain challenged Obama "to go to Iraq and see for yourself". And Barack took him up on it.

Now Obama is being seen on the world stage, and guess what? He looks extremely credible and presidential.

Did McCain not realize the potential disaster to his campaign, to have Barack being seen as a president, while overseas? Johnnie's political skills are apparently highly questionable. From the first post when I started this thread until now, I'm more and more convinced McCain's candidacy was flawed from Day #1.

[Charlotte_native]

A GOP strategist was just on CNN saying that McCain challenging Obama to travel to the Middle East might have been one of the biggest bungles so far. He said the chance was there for Obama to screw up, but that the greater odds were for what happened, a warm welcome across the travels. What he said they didn't suspect was the de facto endorsement by Al Maliki in Iraq and the calls from Iraq for the US to set a timetable to leave -- he compounded that with the fact that last year W said if they ask us to leave we would -- now what to do -- they've asked but McCain won't agree to a timetable. Now they have to figure out how to worm out of that commitment. That let (remember this was all from a GOP guy) Obama off the hook for calling for a timetable, now all he has to do is say they've asked for one and we've already committed to giving one should they ask.

[erdogs]

If the Government of Iraq thinks it's time for us to leave, then why wait till 2010? This could actually be a gift to Bush if he takes it, give the Iraqi government what it wants now. Start pulling troops out within the next few weeks, then maybe the majority would be out by the time Obama is sworn in.

[Gusterfell]

^The ironic thing is that in recent days both the Iraqi government and the Bush administration have essentially endorsed Obama's longtime position on Iraq. Kinda puts to rest the notion that Obama is naive on foreign affairs. McCain is looking more and more like the odd man out by refusing to set a timetable for withdrawal.

[monsoon]

.... This could actually be a gift to Bush if he takes it, ....

[Charlotte_native]

If the Government of Iraq thinks it's time for us to leave, then why wait till 2010?

[Justadude]

^The ironic thing is that in recent days both the Iraqi government and the Bush administration have essentially endorsed Obama's longtime position on Iraq. Kinda puts to rest the notion that Obama is naive on foreign affairs. McCain is looking more and more like the odd man out by refusing to set a timetable for withdrawal.

[erdogs]

If it wasn't for the success of the surge, the Iraqi government wouldn't be able to say this. The facts are that McCain was for the surge and Obama was not, McCain was right. Because of its success, I think it's a good time to start pulling out.

[Gusterfell]

^Obama was against the surge not because he doubted that it would decrease violence, but because it merely delays the inevitable. Of course sending more troops to the warzone will result in the opposition being beaten back, just as stationing a cop on every corner of a crime-ridden neighborhood will reduce crime. However, what happens to that neighborhood when the police presence is reduced? Crime goes back up.

A withdrawal of American troops will probably destabilize Iraq in the short term, exactly as it would have if we pulled out eighteen months ago, and exactly as it will if we wait another eighteen months to pull out. The only purpose of the surge was to delay this result until Bush & Co. are safely out of office, at the cost of more American lives and billions of tax dollars.

Just yesterday McCain credited the surge with uniting the various Sunni groups against al Qaida in Iraq, leading to a reduction of sectarian violence. He seems to have forgotten that the Sunnis united (the so-called Anbar awakening) in 2006, while the surge began in 2007. McCain has zero credibility on Iraq.

[monsoon]

If it wasn't for the success of the surge, the Iraqi government wouldn't be able to say this. The facts are that McCain was for the surge and Obama was not, McCain was right. Because of its success, I think it's a good time to start pulling out.

[erdogs]

Just yesterday McCain credited the surge with uniting the various Sunni groups against al Qaida in Iraq, leading to a reduction of sectarian violence. He seems to have forgotten that the Sunnis united (the so-called Anbar awakening) in 2006, while the surge began in 2007. McCain has zero credibility on Iraq.

[monsoon]

McCain said the surge allowed it to succeed, something Petraeus has said. If anyone thinks other wise that's fine, but it's not without credibility.

[erdogs]

McCain was for the the war in the first place and Obama wasn't. That alone demonstrates who showed the better judgment in this. The surge was created to protect George Bush's ass. If there had been no surge and we had pulled out 2 years ago, we might have a fully democratic/capitalistic Iraq by now. The british already pulled out and there was no mayhem. The surge was another lie.

[Charlotte_native]

If it wasn't for the success of the surge, the Iraqi government wouldn't be able to say this. The facts are that McCain was for the surge and Obama was not, McCain was right. Because of its success, I think it's a good time to start pulling out.

[monsoon]

Obama wasn't a U.S. Senator at the time, so who knows how he would have voted given the political pressures. ...... Maybe you are upset that it actually worked, but I think it was a good thing to have happened.

[erdogs]

How can you say the surge is a failure? It has had the intended affect of decreasing violence and allowing rival factions enough breathing room to come together to try to work out solutions. The surge was also implemented to allow us to pull out with a stable Iraq. While Iraq isn't quite there yet, it at least has a chance to survive on its own, that would not have been possible without it. No one has said the surge was complete, that's why they haven't set a date for withdraw. However, I wouldn't have a problem with it if they did. Obama's plan would have left a turbulent country, that would have fallen into a civil war with possibly millions killed or left homeless. With the destruction and unrest we caused in their country, they deserve that much. I would hope we could agree on that point.

[monsoon]

Surge is an escalation. It's a play on words. We are in our 6th year in this disastrous plan to invade Iraq. Any plan that does not end this mess now is a failure no matter how it is spun. Hence the escalation, surge as Bush calls it, was a failure. All it has done is save the current president from having to deal with the mess he created. A mess that McCain voted for.

What is the plan for getting out of Iraq. There isn't one. That is how I can say it was a complete and utter failure.

[erdogs]

Surge is an escalation. It's a play on words. We are in our 6th year in this disastrous plan to invade Iraq. Any plan that does not end this mess now is a failure no matter how it is spun. Hence the escalation, surge as Bush calls it, was a failure. All it has done is save the current president from having to deal with the mess he created. A mess that McCain voted for.

What is the plan for getting out of Iraq. There isn't one. That is how I can say it was a complete and utter failure.

[Gusterfell]

McCain said the surge allowed it to succeed, something Petraeus has said. If anyone thinks other wise that's fine, but it's not without credibility.

[Charlotte_native]

In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is already a turbulent country with millions killed or displaced. By any honest definition, it has been under civil war for several years already. Indeed, observers say that the decline in sectarian violence is due as much to the fact that ethnic cleansing has already been completed in much of Iraq as it is to the surge. Ethnic minorities have already been killed or driven out of many provinces, hence there is nobody left to fight.

[erdogs]

That's how the campaign tried to explain away the gaffe, but that isn't what McCain said. his exact words were as follows:

"Colonel McFarlane was contacted by one of the major Sunni sheiks. Because of the surge we were able to go out and protect that sheik and others. And it began the Anbar awakening. I mean, that's just a matter of history."

He clearly stated that the surge began the Awakening.

[Gusterfell]

This was a poorly worded statement by McCain. The key statement here was "Because of the surge we were able to go out and protect that sheik and others", without the surge the "Awakening" would not have been sustainable. Clearly the Sunni sheik would have been given assurances of protection, something the surge provided. McCain simply misspoke, just like when Obama said there were 57 states. I don't see either as a big deal.

[erdogs]

McCain, on the other hand, was trying to credit the surge with uniting the Sunni tribes, a circumstance which would have lent clear credibility to his political position if true.