The Promenade At Chenal

[LRguy21]

Well thanks for the replies on the Apple store. It actually got me quite interested. Im really looking forward to it. Should be a great thing for the city.

How do you think the Apple Store will affect The Promenade?

[LRU1967]

Well thanks for the replies on the Apple store. It actually got me quite interested. Im really looking forward to it. Should be a great thing for the city.

How do you think the Apple Store will affect The Promenade?

Here's one more thing about Apple stores from yesterday's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/business...ml?ref=business

[Architect]

What about the Disney Store? They left Park Plaza several years ago on the (open) knowledge that Simon persuaded them not to renew their long-term lease so that they could move to the Summit. I'm shocked that they'd stay out of the market for this long...

Surely GAP will emerge here as well....

[LRguy21]

A Disney Store would be really nice there. But almost more of a Park Ave type store.

[Aporkalypse]

What about the Disney Store? They left Park Plaza several years ago on the (open) knowledge that Simon persuaded them not to renew their long-term lease so that they could move to the Summit. I'm shocked that they'd stay out of the market for this long...

Surely GAP will emerge here as well....

Around that time Disney stores across the country were closing, they closed at least a third of the chain. They had a terrible business model and were losing revenue. Disney sold the remaining stores in 2004 to Children's Place and have been gradually expanding since and have been more profitable. Since LR's first Children's Place opened in Midtowne one would think that would be a good potential location as well.

[Aporkalypse]

Just as an interesting point I looked up the demographic date on 72223 - the Chenal zip code where Promenade at Chenal is located.

It has an average home price - $435,000 and median household income - $87,073

By comparison, the 72758 ZIP (Pinnacle Hills Promenade) has an avg home price of $299,500 and median household income of $52,773

I also looked up 72212 (Hwy 10 area of West LR). Median home price is $299,900 and median income is $80,500.

The Chenal demographics are hard to beat, I assume that was the selling point to developers and tenants - nearby disposable income.

[ndark]

Just as an interesting point I looked up the demographic date on 72223 - the Chenal zip code where Promenade at Chenal is located.

It has an average home price - $435,000 and median household income - $87,073

By comparison, the 72758 ZIP (Pinnacle Hills Promenade) has an avg home price of $299,500 and median household income of $52,773

I also looked up 72212 (Hwy 10 area of West LR). Median home price is $299,900 and median income is $80,500.

The Chenal demographics are hard to beat, I assume that was the selling point to developers and tenants - nearby disposable income.

That is interesting info. I had a hard time believing that Chenal was not the highest area for those categories in the state.

Where do you get info like that? Is there a site?

[Aporkalypse]

That is interesting info. I had a hard time believing that Chenal was not the highest area for those categories in the state.

Where do you get info like that? Is there a site?

Absolutely...

http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/

[slyder1]

Hey thats a really cool find Aporkalypse. Those numbers for the Chenal Zip are incredible... the highest I could find in Springfield was the 65809 zip with $335,000 as the average home price, but I couldn't see where they listed the median income. Can you tell me were that was listed? Thanks for the great link.

[Architect]

72207 (Heights) is $389,500. Pretty impressive when you consider the relative age/historic nature of the area. Remember, 'Median' means there are as many houses that cost more than $389,500 as less than...

[bchris02]

So have there been any updates lately on this project as far as new tenants, etc?

[Architect]

So have there been any updates lately on this project as far as new tenants, etc?

Nothing new on the plumbing submittal front anyway. I'm curious when RED will announce the full tenant lineup. I can't imagine why at this point they wouldn't.

[d25ms]

Nothing new on the plumbing submittal front anyway. I'm curious when RED will announce the full tenant lineup. I can't imagine why at this point they wouldn't.

been reading the forum since the post started almost a year ago and finally decided to throw some noise in the ring... while very excited about the construction, i'm as concerned as anyone that the promenade will ultimately deliver nothing more than a mediocre shopping experience in an already hopeless landscape of cell phone stores, quiznos, and mostly empty strip malls.

I'm a HUGE, did I mention HUGE, fan of Apple stores and have read all about the "halo effect" they have on a local retail environment, but I have to agree that this one might have a tougher draw because of its location so far from all other retail outlets. There are MANY apple stores in a suburban promenade environment (even as close as Germantown (memphis), TN), but the broader community has great shopping activity in the area already... Apple merely shines above the rest.

I was wondering about a true destination location opportunity for Little Rock... The IMAX is frankly going to be a better regular draw than the apple store just based on the fact that wallets are automatically opened every time someone shows up... I would expect a Coldstone Creamery type place should open up just to clean up the "after movie crowd".

But what about bigger fish? I like the Cheesecake Factory concept for little rock... How about Dave & Busters, or better yet, an ESPN zone... People in Little Rock like to eat out.. I think the town could sustain it...

Go ahead take your shots... I'm new and the forum seemed to be slowing a little!

[Architect]

been reading the forum since the post started almost a year ago and finally decided to throw some noise in the ring... while very excited about the construction, i'm as concerned as anyone that the promenade will ultimately deliver nothing more than a mediocre shopping experience in an already hopeless landscape of cell phone stores, quiznos, and mostly empty strip malls.

I'm a HUGE, did I mention HUGE, fan of Apple stores and have read all about the "halo effect" they have on a local retail environment, but I have to agree that this one might have a tougher draw because of its location so far from all other retail outlets. There are MANY apple stores in a suburban promenade environment (even as close as Germantown (memphis), TN), but the broader community has great shopping activity in the area already... Apple merely shines above the rest.

I was wondering about a true destination location opportunity for Little Rock... The IMAX is frankly going to be a better regular draw than the apple store just based on the fact that wallets are automatically opened every time someone shows up... I would expect a Coldstone Creamery type place should open up just to clean up the "after movie crowd".

But what about bigger fish? I like the Cheesecake Factory concept for little rock... How about Dave & Busters, or better yet, an ESPN zone... People in Little Rock like to eat out.. I think the town could sustain it...

Go ahead take your shots... I'm new and the forum seemed to be slowing a little!

I share your concerns and agree that there needs to be some "gravity" to one of these centers. While Cheesecake Factory should be a given at some point (seeing as how its already in some markets smaller than LR, such as Des Moines), I think ESPN Zone is completely unrealistic - as much as I'd like to see it. Furthermore, all of them I've been to (NY, Chicago, Atlanta) are in high density urban neighborhoods (NY-Manhattan, Chicago-downtown, Atlanta-Buckhead).

[bchris02]

been reading the forum since the post started almost a year ago and finally decided to throw some noise in the ring... while very excited about the construction, i'm as concerned as anyone that the promenade will ultimately deliver nothing more than a mediocre shopping experience in an already hopeless landscape of cell phone stores, quiznos, and mostly empty strip malls.

I'm a HUGE, did I mention HUGE, fan of Apple stores and have read all about the "halo effect" they have on a local retail environment, but I have to agree that this one might have a tougher draw because of its location so far from all other retail outlets. There are MANY apple stores in a suburban promenade environment (even as close as Germantown (memphis), TN), but the broader community has great shopping activity in the area already... Apple merely shines above the rest.

Like you, at first glace I question the viability of this center. Are people lazy enough that they can't drive 2-3 extra miles to go to this? Maybe I see it different because when I lived in rural Crawford County and attended college in Fort Smith, I drove 35 miles one way every day.

I am not sure why they decided to build that far out but it must be because they think the demographics will offset the distance from I-430. Plus IMAX, Apple, and even Dick's Sporting Goods will be a draw. Add in a few good restaurants not elsewhere in the market and I think it might work. One thing is Apple is very selective before putting in a retail store so I highly doubt they would invest in the Promenade if they didn't think it would work.

I was wondering about a true destination location opportunity for Little Rock... The IMAX is frankly going to be a better regular draw than the apple store just based on the fact that wallets are automatically opened every time someone shows up... I would expect a Coldstone Creamery type place should open up just to clean up the "after movie crowd".

Would be nice to get a Ben and Jerry's, but thats dreaming.

But what about bigger fish? I like the Cheesecake Factory concept for little rock... How about Dave & Busters, or better yet, an ESPN zone... People in Little Rock like to eat out.. I think the town could sustain it...

Strode is currently developing a "Park Avenue" center in Midtown where University Mall is. It would be a better contender for one of these venues. I read somewhere that ESPN zone was once a contender somewhere in the market but it never materialized. As architect said, they are usually only in larger markets.

Edited January 4, 2008 by bchris02

[turboturtle]

Nothing new on the plumbing submittal front anyway. I'm curious when RED will announce the full tenant lineup. I can't imagine why at this point they wouldn't.

Would you announce if you didn't have signed agreements yet?

[Architect]

Would you announce if you didn't have signed agreements yet?

Well no, of course not. Do you think they would be this far into construction without having signed any? Many tenants are public knowledge b/c of the plumbing permits, yet they've only officially announced the IMAX theater as I recall. Why the holdup?

[turboturtle]

Well no, of course not. Do you think they would be this far into construction without having signed any? Many tenants are public knowledge b/c of the plumbing permits, yet they've only officially announced the IMAX theater as I recall. Why the holdup?

I'm not sure the tenants sign their agreements until very close to the time you see the plumbing permits. Strode went silent with Midtowne tenants due to the competition for tenants in our market. I don't think the competition is any less.

If a developer announces a tenant it publicizes the tenant's real interest in the market. If nothing has been signed yet, it creates opportunity for a competitor to sweeten the deal. At the very least it could put the developer to have to counter offer what was verbally agreed to.

This is all my own speculation. I think it is arm chair urban planners like ourselves who really care much about what is coming and where.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm not sure the tenants sign their agreements until very close to the time you see the plumbing permits. Strode went silent with Midtowne tenants due to the competition for tenants in our market. I don't think the competition is any less.

If a developer announces a tenant it publicizes the tenant's real interest in the market. If nothing has been signed yet, it creates opportunity for a competitor to sweeten the deal. At the very least it could put the developer to have to counter offer what was verbally agreed to.

This is all my own speculation. I think it is arm chair urban planners like ourselves who really care much about what is coming and where.

I think you may be right. Schickel leaked way too much too early and it all fell apart like a house of cards.

[Architect]

I agree. I wasn't proposing they announce 'planned' tenants, but 'signed' tenants. If plumbing permits have been issued, there's a 95% certainty that they've signed on the dotted line. There are many at that stage, so I'm just surprised there's been no official announcement on confirmed tenants. Buy as you say, there's little benefit to them for doing so.

[LRguy21]

In all reality, it isn

[Architect]

In all reality, it isn

[hartford]

Any word on what is going on next to the Kroger on Chenal? They have been clearing the land for a while now. It is a large chunk of land, and it is close in proximity to the Promenade and next to a very busy Kroger. Also, do you think they will ever build something on the out parcels on the Kroger property? It would be nice it they developed that whole area, especially with more restaurants.

[LRguy21]

I'm still concerned about the location though. It's too far off the beaten path for out-of-towners to easily get to, and the fact that it isn't all that big is just another reason not to go. Again, other than Apple, all those stores are at Park Plaza, so if I'm in from Searcy or Pine Bluff, why would I drive by Park Plaza on my way? Also, the traffic out Chenal is already horrible. Just imagine how bad it will be as it continues to develop.

Yes, that

[eusalemap]

I've been watching this topic for some time, because I'm really anxious to see what's coming to the new shopping areas of WLR. As for me and my husband, we'll drive to Memphis in order to find quality clothing, big selections of home interiors/fashions (etc.), and a huge variety of cuisines (not just brand name restaurants). I find this true of most other couples that I talk to regarding LR shopping. Little Rock doesn't have HomeGoods, so I will make weekly drives from WLR to Conway. Conway has both a HomeGoods and a plus-square-footaged Pier1. Bryant has a Kirkland's Home Store and a Lowe's. Memphis has several Macy's, Nordstom's, and Costcos (to mention just a few). Shackleford Crossing has disappointed me so far, and I'm hoping the Promenade adds at least one of the stores or cuisines that I now travel 1/2 an hour to 2 1/2 hours one way in order to find competive prices, selection, good shopping environment, etc. I remember when the Butcher Shop seemed to be out in the middle of nowhere. I'm sure that this area of Chenal at some time in the near future will seem like WLR's town center (the way things are growing out Chenal & Hwy. 10).