Midtown Development

[Zissou]

I dont think that GAP's target market resides in the downtown midtown area just yet. What are all these very upscale stores?

[Michi]

Agreed regarding the more middle-of-the-road stores. But just as a point of reference so to speak, The Gap did not survive in downtown East Lansing as a streetfront store. Urban Outfitters also tanked. Grand River Avenue through there was always packed with foot and even vehicle traffic.

That's not to say a study might determine that a specific location in greater downtown Detroit might be able to sustain one...I don't know.

[Jasoncw]

To add to Michi's part about bigger buildings, I think that they could be filled. I don't think that if the entire thing was luxury that it would be filled, but I think that a new, well designed, well managed building would attract all income levels. Some cities require certain income units for their buildings, and still seem to do fine, and Lafayette Park, one of Detroit's most functional and coherent neighborhoods, has a variety of wealths.

[Michi]

Also, all the flip flop studies about downtown demographics might illustrate that retail survival might have the same epidemic as the Ann Arbor-Detroit commuter rail line. That being that the rail line's biggest obsticle is that it doesn't have existing ridership numbers in which to pull from. How do they really know the market? I suppose the same can be said about retail survival in downtown Detroit, especially given that some reports demonstrate that the demographic downtown is more well off than originally thought. So, for instance, on a given day, even thought downtown may seem kind of quiet and is a wonder how some stores stay open...maybe it's because their client potential is shopping elsewhere at the moment because the goods and services do not exist yet.

Chicken? Egg?

[YoungProfDetroit]

National retailers will sacrifice a developed residential base for high growth potential. It is by no means an easy sell, but very possible. I feel that midtown/downtown is so close to national retailers giving it an honest shot.

In regards to woodward ave building height, I completely agree. This is a major boulevard that demands taller developments.

[TheDetroitCity99]

I think as soon as most of the downtown projects are finished ie: Book towers,fortshelby,griswold etc. the national chains will see the need for more retailers in downtown and they will that it can be very profitable. I don't think right now would be a time for them to come because not enough of these projects are completed.

[jbr12]

Wow, I go away for a week or so and come back to complete bashing of the project I worked on...

It is correct that the original proposal from the Chicago based Architect was deemed too risky. From what I understand, that was determined by the developer, not the University. This project is a private venture on WSU's property. What you are seeing on the street right now is NOT the final product, please keep this in mind. Yes it is made of precast and that decision was made purely for budgetary reasons. As far as the comments on the sub-par Architect, I think our past work at Design Plus speaks for itself. The Architect can only do so much to ensure a quality design. Once you add a developer, a University, a Municipality and a contractor to the mix, things begin to get muddied very quickly...

[Michi]

jbr, I know it's tough to redeem, but it's nothing personal against you. In fact, working on any such project is highly admirable. Apologies if there are any hard feelings, and I understand if there are.

I realize it's not the final product and realize that once it's finished, it will look much better, but I still think it's ok to be honest about criticism, so long as it's constructive and tactful. Criticism, at least in Detroit's case, comes from love of the city...so in a sense, it's tough love.

I'd be interested in hearing from the Chicago developer, because when he came to speak to my class at Wayne, he was very optimistic about the feasability of the project. I don't recall 100% either, but I thought I read from a university source that Wayne thought it to be too risky, and thus scaled it back. I remeber feeling kind of shocked that President Reid thought something under his watch to bee "too risky". But, I guess I could be wrong.

[jbr12]

I completely understand constructive criticism and the need for tough love. But its comments like this

"For those concerned, the fact that this is already looking ugly has nothing to do with the amount of money invested in the project. It's a really a result of poor design. SE Michigan is in desperate need of talented architects who are willing to make good visual impact in a city in transition."

that really irks me. Making comments like these are a little off base, especially when there is no knowledge about the goings-on behind the scenes or any of the reasons for the changes we were forced to make.

When the initial rendering came out, I recall there being quite a few posts in favor of the style and design of the building, esp. with the entire ground floor being dedicated to retail. That initial rendering is what we, as Architects, wanted for the building... the end product is what it was scaled back to due to the outside factors.

My information on the Chicago developer was information from the new West Michigan based developer... so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt. I do know we had to jump through hoops to get WSU to approve that is being built now because of its 'contemporary style'.... the Chicago based developer's design was far more out there (which I like much more than what we built)

[wolverine]

My apologizes for mistaking this project the work of a local architect.

From my own experiences, I realize that difficulties with clients, budgets, and time can be problematic but you have to draw a line where design ends up looking worse than it should. Don't worry, I've had buildings I've worked on slammed on these boards as well.

I did get the opportunity to see this wall up close the other day. I'm holding you to your word that the surface I'm seeing is indeed incomplete.

As far as off base comments, the one I made was off base. It should have been more directed toward Detroit development in general. As I said previously, I realize that there are many externalities that can negatively impact the final design, but lately I haven't seen anything brand new go up that I would consider 'well designed,' which makes me think its less of a budget problem and more a design issue.

[Michi]

In other words, the casinos, with the capital they have to spend on good design are held to higher standards. As will Quicken/Rock. No more Woodward Place townhouse cookie cutter poo.

Today, I noticed the Studio One development has started its second level. It has a white facade.

Picture updates hopefully after this weekend.

[jbr12]

It won't remain white... it will get sealed with a tan and a dark color that is similar to the base at areas similar to the rendering...

[Jasoncw]

Here are the renderings again everyone.

[Zissou]

The only thing I really dislike is that arch above the area where cars can enter. Doesnt do anything for me.

[jbr12]

In the original design, that 'arch' actually carried through the whole depth of the building... The final product that you see in the renderings as the result of the items I listed above as impacting the design intent...

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...ost&id=3156

[hudkina]

Though most of us like to think of Midtown as being an urban oasis, the reality is that it is still a long way from truly being gentrified, and projects like this are only the first step. Most storefronts along Woodward are still grungy and dirty and the homeless population still makes up a significant amount. Of course you have to take that into consideration when you're building something like this. The market hasn't really proven itself yet, so you're not going to invest a lot of money in apartments when you don't even know if you can find tenants.

Granted, I think in the end the market will prove itself and we will see projects that are more "upscale", but for now we have to settle with cheap materials and scaled-back designs.

[ScheuerJD]

Exactly, you can't blame architects for clients' bad taste in design. I don't think that SE Michigan is lacking in architectural talent, but it does lack developers with vision. It's similar to what I have run into as a website designer, you can try to steer a client towards something unique, but only to produce crap because that's what the client wants.

[statedude3]

I'm confused...is the ramp completed, or still under construction? I thought the ramp was a separate project, but serving the apartments?

[jbr12]

The ramp is a separate developer and design group altogether. There will be a connection at the third floor and there will be spaces in the ramp dedicated to the residents to ensure everyone that lives there has a place to park.

[Michi]

sd, the ramp is still under construction.

[tapezord]

updates from this morning:

1. the second floor is underway at the studio one development.

2. grade stakes are in place at the proposed biofuel plant on John R Street and the CN railroad tracks southeast of the new center.

3. the crystal lofts and that other development on woodward are looking great.

[hudkina]

Is that biofuel plant going to be a biohazard? Sure Detroit needs to become a center for renewable energies, but is putting the plant there going to make the surrounding neighborhood less desireable?

[tapezord]

Is that biofuel plant going to be a biohazard? Sure Detroit needs to become a center for renewable energies, but is putting the plant there going to make the surrounding neighborhood less desireable?

[hudkina]

So no different than living next to a McDonald's;)

[TheDetroitCity99]

Does anyone know of apartments that are located in Downtown or Midtown?? My brother wants an apartment because he doesn't want to be tied down with the real estate market. All I can seem to find are new condos.