2030 Transit Plan

[Justadude]

I feel that the best way forward is to keep the tax and use the debate to start a formal conversation about transit in the county and whether folks feel like they are being served. Let the south line open, give it a chance, see how it works, and, as Neo said, use the opportunity for a new CATS Director to begin to address the problems that exist in the public's mind, address them and move forward.

[Raintree21]

The Black Political Caucus of Charlotte-Mecklenburg announced their support for the transit tax tonight and is urging its members to vote against the repeal.

[kermit]

The same article says the street car project will be moved up to 2013. http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/310163.html

[uptownliving]

The Black Political Caucus of Charlotte-Mecklenburg announced their support for the transit tax tonight and is urging its members to vote against the repeal.

[monsoon]

I note the article says could be moved up. The booked plan has not changed.

[Charlotte_native]

I note the article says could be moved up. The booked plan has not changed.

[Raintree21]

I note the article says could be moved up. The booked plan has not changed.

[archiham04]

I read it that way too. I thought it was a rather significant statement. Too significant to be entirely trustworthy... If a commitment had been made to change the delivery, I would think that it would be a front page headline.

[monsoon]

Ahh they must have changed the text of the online article but this is why I never put much stock in reporting from the Observer. Lets look at what is actually planned.

Street Car Phase I (Rosa Parks to Presbyterian)

• Design Phase 2013-2016

• Construction 2016-2018

• Cost (estimated 2006 $) $210.6M

So CATS is saying that it will take $210.6M and 5 years to design and build this line. If they are to complete it by 2013 they will have to have federal and state funding (75%) of the line approved by next year and at this point, they have not even made an application for the money. Furthermore, the MTC has not voted to change the order of construction, so there is also no transit tax money available for this project.

If the pro-transit people are making these kinds of promises, then they are simply lying to the people whose votes they are attempting to sway. I won't bother to mention the article says that despite these promises, the majority of people, 51% are planning to vote against the tax.

BTW, at the 2006 MTC meeting where all of this was decided, McCroy mentioned that he felt the streetcar lines should be dropped.

[uptownliving]

The preliminary engineering is due to wrap up by the end of this year on the Center City Streetcar. At that point it will be ready to be submitted to the FTA to start the application process for Federal funding. It is certainly possible to move the Streetcar up to 2013, the question for me is how would they pay for it. Maybe more details will be released at this month's MTC meeting.

[ChiefJoJo]

Ahh they must have changed the text of the online article but this is why I never put much stock in reporting from the Observer. Lets look at what is actually planned.

Street Car Phase I (Rosa Parks to Presbyterian)

• Design Phase 2013-2016

• Construction 2016-2018

• Cost (estimated 2006 $) $210.6M

So CATS is saying that it will take $210.6M and 5 years to design and build this line. If they are to complete it by 2013 they will have to have federal and state funding (75%) of the line approved by next year and at this point, they have not even made an application for the money. Furthermore, the MTC has not voted to change the order of construction, so there is also no transit tax money available for this project.

[monsoon]

.....

As an FYI, the funding would only have to be in place just prior to letting the construction contract, not at the design stage. CATS would only need federal administrative approvals to enter the design phase if it were to utilize FTA's "Small Starts" program for the streetcar line. The MTC could certainly decide to change the plan and move up the streetcar line as a result of a near-miss on the repeal vote.

[soccer1guy_99]

If the pro-transit people are making these kinds of promises, then they are simply lying to the people whose votes they are attempting to sway. I won't bother to mention the article says that despite these promises, the majority of people, 51% are planning to vote against the tax.

[dubone]

I just want to correct that McCrory did NOT say that he would want the Beatties Ford to Central streetcar dropped. In fact, his direct quote during that meeting is 'I'm also very attached to the streetcar going up Beatties Ford Road and also going toward Eastland Mall. An area that I think will have a great deal of positive impact on the revitalization. I personally anticipate, regardless of the schedule that will be approved tonight, I think there will have to be another vote in two years on the streetcar schedule and on each one of these items." (I was at this meeting, along with maybe a hundred streetcar supporters, and there would have been an audible reponse had he said such a thing. It might be getting mixed up with a sentiment to drop the streetcar to the airport, which I think was discussed various times at the MTC.)

So he really was saying then what pro-transit people seem to be saying now. No matter what decision was made last year for the 2030 plan, that the city is going to review the numbers for a debt model and subsequent information (results of further engineering and other funding commitments, like supplemental local funding from northern towns). Dates would change and priority might change if lines like the North line couldn't make a funding plan that worked. Certainly if the towns are making statements about their lack of support for STIF or TIF funding to cover enough of what the federal government would have originally covered, then the MTC-voted 2030 plan is moot.

Certainly, recent information about pushing up a streetcar is NOT a promise, as it is not funded by the Feds and it isn't voted on by the MTC. However, it seems to me that people are putting the pieces together and saying that with the North line's local funding stalling, that if the 1/2 cent sales tax is kept, that they would look to put the streetcar up for federal funds. It is also possible that people like Mumford be looking into a way to cover the costs of speeding it up within the city budget. After all, Charlotte would benefit greatly from the revitalization the streetcar would bring to those declining areas. I'm just speculating, but if that is what they are saying, then these seem like valid explanations, as we all know they are not actually promising to magically make the line happen.

[uptowncentercity]

The article actually says:

"Finally, he said the group learned a proposed street car project would be finished by 2013, and not 2018 as had been announced earlier."

That is much better looking and will hopefully spur development along that corridor soon.

[Raintree21]

I would think that it takes more than just one person contacting CATS for them to change a bus route. I would suggest having all of your and your wife's acquaintances contact them requesting a change.

Also, IMO, going to Presby/Elizabeth is not the point of the Gold Rush. It's purpose is to serve the center city crowd and allow them to easily and quickly move around inside of 277. It currently serves two routes from Morehead to 10th along Tryon and Sycamore to McDowell along Trade. They can't start adding spurs off of it for no reason. Say you add a Presby route from it. Then to be fair, you'll have to add a Beatties Ford route, then Noda and SouthEnd. I'm sure there are already bus routes that cover that area so it would just be a duplication of services which would add to the misspending of their budget that already takes place.

[uptowncentercity]

I would think that it takes more than just one person contacting CATS for them to change a bus route. I would suggest you having all of your and your wife's acquaintances contact them requesting a change.

Also, IMO, going to Presby/Elizabeth is not the point of the Gold Rush. It's purpose is to serve the center city crowd and allow them to easily and quicly move around inside of 277. It currently serves two routes from Morehead to 10th along Tryon and Sycamore to McDowell along Trade. They can't start adding spurs off of it for no reason. Say you add a Presby route from it. Then to be fair, you'll have to add a Beatties Ford route, then Noda and SouthEnd. I'm sure there area already bus routes that cover that area so it would just be a duplication of services which would add to the misspending of their budget that already takes place.

[Andyc545]

Anyway, back to the subject, we need a street car to the inner neighborhoods and we need it before 2018.

[uptowncentercity]

The problem is we need the North, the Northeast, etc. etc. etc., also. We all of course will favor what will benefit ourselves the most. That is why I most favor the NE Line next, and have supporting facts for it. The Streetcar is my second favorite. I think it will have one of the greatest effects for revitalization of areas and will be used so much on a casual basis, for example, someone that is on lunch break and wants to get down the road to grab lunch, and also would be huge for out-of-towners. I still set North line back b/c of low ridership, and the lack of use I see for myself and many other people that are living in Meck Co. I look at these plans and just wish that the money was there to take care of all of these transportation projects so they overlap and take much less time than the anticipated 2030 deadline. It seems so far away and who knows what everything will be like then. Too bad the money just isn't there.

[monsoon]

.....They told me the same thing both times. The Federal funding guidelines have changed and that has pushed it back to an operational date of 2018 at best. I REALLY hope this is wrong since it would make my wifes commute up towards Presby much easier. .....

[Andyc545]

NE line, that's Central Ave, correct ?

That would be a huge plus for me as well.

[ChiefJoJo]

Certainly, recent information about pushing up a streetcar is NOT a promise, as it is not funded by the Feds and it isn't voted on by the MTC. However, it seems to me that people are putting the pieces together and saying that with the North line's local funding stalling, that if the 1/2 cent sales tax is kept, that they would look to put the streetcar up for federal funds. It is also possible that people like Mumford be looking into a way to cover the costs of speeding it up within the city budget. After all, Charlotte would benefit greatly from the revitalization the streetcar would bring to those declining areas. I'm just speculating, but if that is what they are saying, then these seem like valid explanations, as we all know they are not actually promising to magically make the line happen.

[uptowncentercity]

The NE Line is the continuation of LRT of the current South Line. It goes through center city up to University City, for the most part, hitting areas of NoDa and where the new IKEA is, as well as directly goes onto campus of UNCC and would connect their new campus in center city. Like I said, it benefits many of us who work and go to school. Moreso, it benefits all of the students at UNCC, many who do not drive, to be able to go uptown for the bars, be safe (since no drinkning and driving), but also for other recreation and events. Also, like I had stated for the support of the NE line, many of the residents in the area would use the LRT to get to shopping, restraunts, and other areas in NoDa to University City without even going uptown at times. Plus University City with the Research Park provides thousands of jobs, 10-thousand at Wachovia CIC, many who commute from areas all over inside and outside of Meck Co (which is one reason why 85 is so terrible).

[Andyc545]

That line works for me too. Ikea and NoDa. What's the status of UNCC and their uptown campus that was supposed to break ground this fall over near 7th St. Station. Levine scew that deal as well ?

[Raintree21]

A thought just occured to me and I'll admit it is very limited, very temporary, and would have problems. I think a very big (temporary) boost and added reason to speed up the line to UNCC would be football. UNCC want's a football team and they don't have a stadium. It takes several years to plan a new stadium and get a program ready to go. It takes several years to get a LRT up and running as we've seen. If 49ers play their games at BOA stadium, the students could ride the NE LRT from the campus to the stadium. That would give the NE line an added boost of something like 120,000 rides (6 home games x 10,000 students x 2 way fares), being conservative I think, for a year or two. While this in no way justifies the line, I was just thinking that it could be an added bonus in addition to all of the aforementiond riders that are wanting to go downtown for bar trips.