Artist proposal for Plaza on Fayetteville Street

[RaleighLover]

^^you are kidding, right?

just because there is a grove of cypress trees on fayetteville street, Raleigh's title of The City of Oaks will be challenged? I don't think so. Last time I checked there were trees all over the place that are not oak trees. Hasn't seemed to be a problem yet. Also, Mr. Plensa wants trees that will not take 100 years to grow into something substantial, which is often the problem with oaks. I think this is awefully considerate of him, since I won't be around in 100 years to lay in the shade of oak trees.

That's not what I said at all. My point was that they simply wouldn't fit in.

And actually the one thing I do like about the trees is the fact that they won't take forever to grow, but that's not a huge selling point when the trees that are picked just seem so out of place.

I'm not saying plant oaks exactly, just something that will fit in more. I have some ideas that I'll post shortly.

Oh, and it is possible to transplant full grown, or partially full grown trees.

[RaleighLover]

I just thought of something. How will these cyprus trees stand up to the ice storms we have?

Anyway, ok, now here's some ideas I have for replacement trees and why but let me start off by saying I realize none of the trees will likely be able to capture the "reaching for the sky" effect Plensa but personally I don't think them having that effect is all that important.

Scarlet Maple - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/13363.jpg - Leafs are a really pretty bright green and then turn a beautiful fire red in the Fall. Provides lots of shade, grows really tall. Also a very strong tree. I think they would contrast well against the black granite and cobble stone-like street and could match with the LED colors very well in the Fall. Finally, and I'm not sure why (maybe it's because of NCSU), but I've always considered red to be Raleigh's official color.

White Snowball - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/13294.jpg - Beautiful blooms. In the Spring when they all bloom just imagine how amazing it would look. Would contrast awesome against the black granite (the website says they "gleam against dark, near-black foliage"). When thinking about them when they're blooming beside the water I'm reminded of what D.C. looks like when all the cherry trees bloom. I think about how the individual peddles of the blooms would fall off and float in the water and how beautiful that would look. Leaves turn golden in the fall. They attract butterflies and birds. They also, as the website points out, "grow fast, last nearly forever and require a minimum care." The key there being "grow fast." The one draw bag is they're more shrubs than trees (although tall shrubs), but perhaps they could be planted with another tree, would that would provide the dark, near black foliage to make them stand out.

Weeping Cherry - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/13379.jpg - I don't think I need to explain the benefits of this one much. Again, it would give the "D.C. look" and also any sort of weeping tree works great with water because they give the effect that they're reaching down towards the water.

Golden Chain Tree http://www.trees-online.com/images/golden_chain_tree.jpg - Such a beautiful tree. Would contrast well against the black granite and the blooms would look like they're reaching towards the water.

Quaking Aspen - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/08784.jpg - Not the most stand out tree in the world, but beautiful all the same. The two biggest things here are that it's tall, sorta could produce the "reaching for the sky" effect and it's also really hardy. The white bark and yellow fall leaves would contrast well against the granite.

Autumn Purple Ash/Crimson King Maple - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/08744.jp...s/250/08766.jpg - Neither picture does these trees justice. The leaves turn almost a purple in the Fall. I think that would match great with the cobble stone/granite. Both have nice shapes and the Purple Ash grows super fast (2-3 feet a year for a total of 40-60 feet).

Tulip Tree - http://www.gurneys.com/images/250/07069.jpg - Besides the awesome fall color and the tulip-like flowers I think the biggest selling point for this one is the shape and height (50-80 feet) which give it more potential than any of the previous trees to achieve that "reaching for the sky" effect

Obviously, there's more, but I'll stop there. My point is I think there's so much better, more suitable trees we could pick.

[Eastwestrob]

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/415579.html

god, why don't we just leave fayetteville street red clay, and take away electric service, and running water, and really relive the good old days... where do these people come from?!? what makes them think they are the only people who are brilliant enough to see the problems with something? why is he going to throw toilet paper and shoes up in the air?! what a freak...

Yes...And we can burn our trash in barrels where the sidewalks should be...Like a scene from the movie "Escape from New York City"

[Justin6882]

There were a couple of good articles in the N&O today about this project. It made some of the naysayers sound a little backwoods... btw who cares what people in Chapel Hill or Holly Springs thinks?

Here are a few choice quotes:

A sample of the public's advice: "I am sure that Senor Jaume Plensa must be a very talented sculptor," wrote Laryce Rybka of North Raleigh, "but he knows not one thing about what we old Southern rednecks consider 'purty artwork.' "

"This is another idea brought to us by the 'Artless and Tasteless Commission' that I will have to explain to out-of-town guests," said J.D. Gibson, a retired Army officer in North Raleigh. "It's obvious to me that commission contains people who admired the emperor's new clothes."

"Looks like an albatross to me," wrote Cindy Parks of Chapel Hill. "Birds will really appreciate that warm wire grid. Better not look up!"

"I just got a letter from a lady in Holly Springs," he said. "It reads, 'This ain't North Carolina.' "

Is Raleigh Ready For Abstract Art?

First Impressions Can't Capture Essence of Art

[bdp]

^^umm, way to go, you beat me to it. I have to say that the people who have opted to live in North Raleigh or Holly Springs have a hell of a lot of nerve running at the mouth about downtown projects. The fact that they chose to live where they do says enough about their taste to pretty much discredit much of what they have to say, IMO. I feel kind of nauseous after reading that article, but that could be from drinking too much last night. I am just really concerned that these people's opinions are going to be given a lot of weight, which is really unfair and kind of backwards. I hope that city council will consider that perhaps all the controversy will virtually gaurantee that the plaza will be a magnet for downtown, as people will want to come from miles around to see what all the fuss was about. I seriously doubt people will drive in from all corners of the southeast to see a statue of andy griffith dancing with sir walter raleigh in a bed of pansies. well... you never know around here, they'd probably eat that up. ugh... I will just keep my fingers crossed.

[ericurbanite]

well to say people from north raleigh and holly springs dont have a say would be somewhat wrong.. plus some people have to live out in the suburbs and cant live in downtown. But anyhow they are a part of the triangle and consider Raleigh there true home. But at the same time this is private money and I think some of these residents are thinking its Raleigh fitting the bill for this. I say put the plaza up and do something different around here.

[bdp]

i know it is dangerous to suggest some people's opinions are not valid, or should not be heard, but again, that was my opinion, which is why I put that IMO in there... I just get really tired of hearing people complain. i don't understand how people can be so negative, but I do stand by my assertion that the same people would be writing in complaining no matter what the design was. people just really get off on it for some reason, which is kind of sad to me.

[Justin6882]

I guess if I can say I want the new Wake County landfill in Holly Springs they can voice their opinion about the City Square, point taken.

[Damien]

The people in Holly Springs have a right to beotch about the landfill cause that is going to affect them directly, but the city square project isn't.

[ncwebguy]

'This ain't North Carolina' is the antithesis of 'This is London'. Whereas the latter gives a sense of style, mixing modern and traditional, the former elicits feelings of "that is something different, so I already hate it".

It should be the Republican Party/"Wake County Tax payers assn."/whatever's calling card for any progressive thinking project. I can see it now... images of a commuter train, lively downtown, kids going to a non-trailer classroom and an unbuilt southern 540 with the slogan "this ain't North Carolina" repeated after each.

Unfortunatly, they would get a lot of buy in from people around here, at least in wake county, if not all of the triangle. Maybe I'm upset from getting back from a trip to Charleston and Atlanta and seeing what Raleigh *could* be like, what Raleigh *deserves* but then see the reality of what Raleigh has and "wants".

[dmccall]

I think the Republican Party's official stance on privately funded public projects is: great, let's do more. I know PLENTY of Democrats who poo poo anything different in Raleigh. Back when John Kane proposed North Hills and the Alexan, there were a LOT of Gore stickers on cars in the St. Timothy's parking lot (where the "North Hills Association" of nimbys met).

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I think the Republican Party's official stance on privately funded public projects is: great, let's do more. I know PLENTY of Democrats who poo poo anything different in Raleigh. Back when John Kane proposed North Hills and the Alexan, there were a LOT of Gore stickers on cars in the St. Timothy's parking lot (where the "North Hills Association" of nimbys met).

Neither of John Kane proposals, North Hills or Alexan are downtown though. Democrats tend to poo poo most big projects that aren't downtown. And generally prefer mix-use, urban friendly projects that aren't too large unless there downtown.

[dmccall]

Neither of John Kane proposals, North Hills or Alexan are downtown though. Democrats tend to poo poo most big projects that aren't downtown. And generally prefer mix-use, urban friendly projects that aren't too large unless there downtown.

Gotta disagree here, too. I knew PLENTY of Democrats who put "No Hotel" signs in their yards when the not-so-big Guest Quarters was proposed for Oberlin/Glenwood. Won't even get into all of the Democrats I know who think Plensa's idea is "tacky". I don't think that "smart growth" is a Dem/Rep issue, honestly.

[MR-2]

Being progressive and being a democrat don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. That said, they aren't mutually exclusive either.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Gotta disagree here, too. I knew PLENTY of Democrats who put "No Hotel" signs in their yards when the not-so-big Guest Quarters was proposed for Oberlin/Glenwood. Won't even get into all of the Democrats I know who think Plensa's idea is "tacky". I don't think that "smart growth" is a Dem/Rep issue, honestly.

and besides, I think "those" Democrates are really probably "Jessiecrats"

[avery]

I guess if I can say I want the new Wake County landfill in Holly Springs they can voice their opinion about the City Square, point taken.

They can voice their opinion, but it should bear no weight whatsoever. Your comparision is not correct. The landfill is a Wake County decision. The accurate comparision would be more like Raleigh residents voicing their disgust on new artwork proposed for downtown Holly Springs. Keep it apples to apples. Raleigh has no say on what Holly Springs does with their downtown area, therefore, they should have no say so on what we do in our city. I just dislike the N&O propogating the disgust in the artwork from so many "outsiders."

[Justin6882]

Maybe I should've put a " " in my original post...

[ericurbanite]

Ok.... I really do not think this art proposal has anything to do with politics. As far as Holly Springs goes its not a destination for many Wake County residents or North Carolina residents for that matter. Raleigh is the capital and I think people that live in Wake County associate there self with Raleigh first then the surrounding triangle area. Many people drive through Raleigh everyday and have an overall concern with whats going on in Raleigh IMO. So I don't automatically discount what triangle residents have to say about Raleigh, anyhow probably half of this thread is not residing in the city limits of Raleigh but have an interest in the growth of it.

I am a Raleigh resident and I think the plaza would be great for Downtown.

[dmccall]

I'm still debating my approach toward these people, too. I certainly understand the notion that people who turned their backs on downtown shouldn't be heard as much as enthusiasts, especially if those backturners live far out of town. On the other hand, the whole point of the Fayetteville St. renaissance is to bring people back to downtown. All of us here are already fans of downtown, but it won't fly with just our support.

Sigh.

[Jones_]

I'm still debating my approach toward these people, too. I certainly understand the notion that people who turned their backs on downtown shouldn't be heard as much as enthusiasts, especially if those backturners live far out of town. On the other hand, the whole point of the Fayetteville St. renaissance is to bring people back to downtown. All of us here are already fans of downtown, but it won't fly with just our support.

Sigh.

That's easy a person has to fill out a questionnaire before they are allowed to speak at public comment sessions, newspaper interviews and the like......a)last time you visited downtown b)work or pleasure? c) where do you live relative to downtown proper? 4) have you ever specified EIFS for a construction project? etc etc. If you cannot satisfy a committee of UP members, then your application for permission to comment is denied.

I tend to feel that the various news agencies (especially those located downtown ahem), that while they spit out a decent number of articles on downtown, do not seem to take enough pride in downtown. Perhaps this is called proper journalism, but I see the NY Times beating its own chest all the time....The N&O never says "we are Raleigh and we are freakin' proud". Maybe the split personality of the City is at play again, i.e. North Raleigh vs. Downtown, and the N&O is trying to represent everyone (or offend nobody...read nobodys advertising dollars) but I still find it dissappointing.

[jaxpalmer]

even though i dont live in the triangle, i grew up there and know raleigh like the back of my hand.

I STRONGLY support this project, this project is almost as essential as the rbc building for the downtown, anything major that will get built downtown will only be complemented by this. I havnt heard one sane valid argument as to why this shouldnt be allowed to happen, and the "this isnt north carolina, this is too jazzy and artsy for us southern folks" argument is so ridiculous it dosnt even need to aknowledged.

raleigh is a unique city and needs things like this to stand out, and show everyone just what this city is all about. not only should raleigh promote itself more as THE technological/biotech capital of the southeast, but THE arts capital as well.

I saw a rendering of a new art museum they are planning on building, im sure you guys know which one im talking about. Projects like that are exactly what raleigh needs.

[ericurbanite]

when is the deadline for the approval of this?? The reason I ask is because during the presentation he kept repeating that alot of questions couldn't be answered because its a "dream"/concept. He said once approved there would be more details and I would assume some better renderings.

I watched on RTN 11 the presentation he gave. It gives you a much better understanding. Also I think once we see some more detailed renderings, people are going to be skeptical. I would consider the renderings now like a school kid drawing a house. I think we will be blown away once we see some renderings that are lifelike.

[dmccall]

I think that I heard it will go to the Council in April. I cannot remember specifically but it was sooner than I expected.

[dmccall]

The Arts Commission meeting at 7:00 Tuesday night (4/11) will feature discussion on the Plensa project. "We have engineers and Larry Wheeler coming to discuss the Plensa work. It is an open meeting to the public as all of our meetings are."

Alright, everyone. It's put up or shut up time. If there is a public comment section of the meeting, we ALL need to not be bashful. At least step up to the mike and say that you simply like it...maybe even add something about it being different and helping F St. be something unique for the region. Bottom line is DON'T let people's concerns about air traffic and Andy Griffith overshadow our enthusiasm!!!

[bdp]

^^yes, that worked so well for the chandelier project. I'll try to make it though. personally, I think the NandO has a LOT to do with getting things stirred up regarding public projects.