Cafe La Petit Roche

[db909]

I wrote a big long response, but my computer ate it, so I'm going to take that as a sign. Let's just--as you say--agree to disagree, but with one caveat on my part.

Everything you describe as examples of how my theory that things are changing and can change are the supposed lack of interest in the community. People choose open spaces, so they don't want to live in the city. What other options do people have than open developments? Historically (over the last 4 decades), the suburbs have been the only option of new housing stock. Now there's the stuff going up downtown, other options, and those options are getting gobbled up. Same with the mentality of today's youth: without any other options than driving, all they're going to do is drive. I'm not stating by any means that if an extensive system of public transport was available, kids these days would use that all the time. Rather, they'd be much more willing to accept these options alongside cars as a means of getting around. Anyway, let's move on. We've driven this one into the ground, but thanks for your feedback.

I'm really sorry I missed this one. This is what happens when I take the day off. Suffice it to say, I like how you think, in general I agree with your positions, and I'm glad to see you on the boards.

[EJC]

I wrote a big long response, but my computer ate it, so I'm going to take that as a sign. Let's just--as you say--agree to disagree, but with one caveat on my part.

Everything you describe as examples of how my theory that things are changing and can change are the supposed lack of interest in the community. People choose open spaces, so they don't want to live in the city. What other options do people have than open developments? Historically (over the last 4 decades), the suburbs have been the only option of new housing stock. Now there's the stuff going up downtown, other options, and those options are getting gobbled up. Same with the mentality of today's youth: without any other options than driving, all they're going to do is drive. I'm not stating by any means that if an extensive system of public transport was available, kids these days would use that all the time. Rather, they'd be much more willing to accept these options alongside cars as a means of getting around. Anyway, let's move on. We've driven this one into the ground, but thanks for your feedback.

Things are certainly changing in your world, because you are now a resident of Chicago. So you see things differently as your world has opened up. In regards to today's youth changing, well every generation has its differences, but the idealism you demonstrate and attribute to your generation is just as likely due to your actual age and the fact that you are attending a university. Young people all over the world for a century or more have flocked to the city for excitement, and then many move away from the inner city as they season. 'Tis the natural course of things, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Things in LR: well times are-a-changin', but sllllloooowly. And with good reason. Chicago wasn't built overnight and LR won't be either; and beyond this, there are inherent and acceptable differences in ideology and desires between a major midwest city and a growing but relatively small mid-south city in the Natural State.

Suffice it to say that the downtown options didn't exist for a multitude of reasons including a lack of demand. And thankfully for some, there IS some demand now and Messrs Moses and Tucker are doing a great job of capitalizing on it. Perhaps, and much more importantly, there will also be growing demand in renovating existing housing closer to downtown. If people really want to see the inner city of LR grow and become vibrant, THAT will have to happen in a significant way. And frankly, considering the very current issues with the Little Rock school system, I reservations about how that will happen.

My only point is that we're still only a drop in the bucket compared to where we need to be for RAIL mass transit to be cost effective. I'm all for mass transit and we have a bus system that people can/do use, but rail is VERY expensive and requires much higher numbers to be cost-effective and be a responsible public works alternative.

Having lived for long periods in places where rail existed, I can say that I enjoyed it immensely, but I wouldn't want to undertake such a development until it was prudent; were a long way from that point. Cheers.

And for what it's worth, I'm glad you're here too. I like reading your comments and ideas even if I don't agree with it in some cases.

[abdintp]

Things are certainly changing in your world, because you are now a resident of Chicago. So you see things differently as your world has opened up. In regards to today's youth changing, well every generation has its differences, but the idealism you demonstrate and attribute to your generation is just as likely due to your actual age and the fact that you are attending a university. Young people all over the world for a century or more have flocked to the city for excitement, and then many move away from the inner city as they season. 'Tis the natural course of things, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Things in LR: well times are-a-changin', but sllllloooowly. And with good reason. Chicago wasn't built overnight and LR won't be either; and beyond this, there are inherent and acceptable differences in ideology and desires between a major midwest city and a growing but relatively small mid-south city in the Natural State.

Suffice it to say that the downtown options didn't exist for a multitude of reasons including a lack of demand. And thankfully for some, there IS some demand now and Messrs Moses and Tucker are doing a great job of capitalizing on it. Perhaps, and much more importantly, there will also be growing demand in renovating existing housing closer to downtown. If people really want to see the inner city of LR grow and become vibrant, THAT will have to happen in a significant way. And frankly, considering the very current issues with the Little Rock school system, I reservations about how that will happen.

My only point is that we're still only a drop in the bucket compared to where we need to be for RAIL mass transit to be cost effective. I'm all for mass transit and we have a bus system that people can/do use, but rail is VERY expensive and requires much higher numbers to be cost-effective and be a responsible public works alternative.

Having lived for long periods in places where rail existed, I can say that I enjoyed it immensely, but I wouldn't want to undertake such a development until it was prudent; were a long way from that point. Cheers.

And for what it's worth, I'm glad you're here too. I like reading your comments and ideas even if I don't agree with it in some cases.

Awesome. I'm glad we've been able to agree on some things, and am perfectly happy to read your differing opinions on others. What I find most impressive about all you have to say is that for all that you don't believe what I'm saying, that rail transit is possible for LR, you still go out and ride the trolley. That demonstration is a ton better than probably many of the people who came up with the desgin for the trolley in the first place.

For example, there was a recent article in the Chicago Trib that said that of the 6 CTA execs, a couple didn't ride the CTA a single time last year, and most of the rest rode it only a couple dozen times. The only guy who rode it more than 100 times was in a wheel chair! This kind of bureaucratic, corrupt demonstration is what makes living in Chicago so frustrating, and this is I think one thing that LR does very well: holds its leaders accountable.

[EJC]

and this is I think one thing that LR does very well: holds its leaders accountable.

Let's hope that one day we can hold our LR School Board accountable considering how they wish to hold Mr Brooks "accountable" for the improved test scores in Little Rock.

Let's also hope that Little Rock can enact some means to grant some additional authority to the Mayoral position. Not so they can do away with the City Director position, but so the Mayor can work WITH the City Director to make things happen.

There are a lot of great things happening in this relatively small city, but some recent events make me wonder how these great things happen with all the other nonsense going on.

[EJC]

Not sure where else to put this, but the announcement of the small business loan program by the AEDC/Downtown LR Partnership is a nice idea. Hopefully some folks will take advantage of this. I think this is a great idea in terms of spurring business growth without giving away the farm...

[Aporkalypse]

Not sure where else to put this, but the announcement of the small business loan program by the AEDC/Downtown LR Partnership is a nice idea. Hopefully some folks will take advantage of this. I think this is a great idea in terms of spurring business growth without giving away the farm...

I agree, great idea.

I hope this will spur some independent shops and restaurants downtown in areas outside of the River Market.

[abdintp]

Let's hope that one day we can hold our LR School Board accountable considering how they wish to hold Mr Brooks "accountable" for the improved test scores in Little Rock.

Let's also hope that Little Rock can enact some means to grant some additional authority to the Mayoral position. Not so they can do away with the City Director position, but so the Mayor can work WITH the City Director to make things happen.

There are a lot of great things happening in this relatively small city, but some recent events make me wonder how these great things happen with all the other nonsense going on.

I haven't really followed the whole LRSD issue, and have no idea what the controversy is, but my mom and aunt work in the district, and they, their coworkers, and all my teachers don't like what he's doing at all, and from what I understand it's mostly white parents who are in support of Brooks, so although I'm not privy to what's going on, I definitely side with whomever those people against Brook. Still, regardless of the outcome, the people of LR are reacting in a constructive way, and voicing their opinion, and I think that's great.

[EJC]

I haven't really followed the whole LRSD issue, and have no idea what the controversy is, but my mom and aunt work in the district, and they, their coworkers, and all my teachers don't like what he's doing at all, and from what I understand it's mostly white parents who are in support of Brooks, so although I'm not privy to what's going on, I definitely side with whomever those people against Brook. Still, regardless of the outcome, the people of LR are reacting in a constructive way, and voicing their opinion, and I think that's great.

Yes, teachers and unions are against him because he's asking for accountability without excuse. And he's showing performance gains with students of all races. Suffice it to say that you and I would disagree entirely on this issue as well. The fact that race is an issue should be irrellevant in light of the fact that Mr Brooks is of the same race as those wishing to oust him. For the most part, this issue isn't about race as much as union issues although the Board has attempted to bring race into this by suggesting that Mr Brooks has not spoken enough with students of a certain race enough. Which is a somewhat offensive premise. But that's not a topic for this place.

This disappointing thing is that the school board does not appear to be in favor of making progress so much as protecting special interests. They talk very little about progress, and a great deal about everything else. And this is a great problem that Little Rock must overcome. Much more concerning than mass transportation issues

[abdintp]

Yes, teachers and unions are against him because he's asking for accountability without excuse. And he's showing performance gains with students of all races. Suffice it to say that you and I would disagree entirely on this issue as well. The fact that race is an issue should be irrellevant in light of the fact that Mr Brooks is of the same race as those wishing to oust him. For the most part, this issue isn't about race as much as union issues although the Board has attempted to bring race into this by suggesting that Mr Brooks has not spoken enough with students of a certain race enough. Which is a somewhat offensive premise. But that's not a topic for this place.

This disappointing thing is that the school board does not appear to be in favor of making progress so much as protecting special interests. They talk very little about progress, and a great deal about everything else. And this is a great problem that Little Rock must overcome. Much more concerning than mass transportation issues

Fascinating. I'm sure I don't agree with you, but this is not the place to be arguing about these things. On a completely differnt note, I got an email saying you wrote on my profile?? How do I access this to see what you wrote?

[Architect]

Yes, teachers and unions are against him because he's asking for accountability without excuse. And he's showing performance gains with students of all races. Suffice it to say that you and I would disagree entirely on this issue as well. The fact that race is an issue should be irrellevant in light of the fact that Mr Brooks is of the same race as those wishing to oust him. For the most part, this issue isn't about race as much as union issues although the Board has attempted to bring race into this by suggesting that Mr Brooks has not spoken enough with students of a certain race enough. Which is a somewhat offensive premise. But that's not a topic for this place.

This disappointing thing is that the school board does not appear to be in favor of making progress so much as protecting special interests. They talk very little about progress, and a great deal about everything else. And this is a great problem that Little Rock must overcome. Much more concerning than mass transportation issues

EJC - I couldn't agree more. While I cannot pretend that I know all the nitty gritty, what I see as a citizen of LR is a superintendent who does not accept the status quo, and expects more of his faculty and students. The results apparently show that his plan is effective. So the teachers whine....why not, who wants to be accountable? He shows signs of true leadership, one who can affect change. Perhaps 'abdintp' can elaborate in case we haven't clearly seen the other side of the coin.

[Aporkalypse]

EJC - I couldn't agree more. While I cannot pretend that I know all the nitty gritty, what I see as a citizen of LR is a superintendent who does not accept the status quo, and expects more of his faculty and students. The results apparently show that his plan is effective. So the teachers whine....why not, who wants to be accountable? He shows signs of true leadership, one who can affect change. Perhaps 'abdintp' can elaborate in case we haven't clearly seen the other side of the coin.

My opinion is similar to yours and I'm really confused about how this became about race.

I do know that Brooks isn't terribly respectful to the school board members and that borders insubordination. Still, it seems like a stern warning is more appropriate. I don't think the board will be successful in firing "with cause".

I bet there's a big shakeup in the school board over the next few years. I don't think anyone is gaining popularity over this.

[skirby]

Maybe the problems aren't with Brooks at all but with Katherine Mitchell, school board president. What kind of record does she have. She was president of Shorter College in NLR until she lost her job in 1997. During this time the college lost its accreditation along with problems concerning some of the academic programs, the qualifications of staff members, money and influence by the board. Does she have an agenda?

[Aporkalypse]

Maybe the problems aren't with Brooks at all but with Katherine Mitchell, school board president. What kind of record does she have. She was president of Shorter College in NLR until she lost her job in 1997. During this time the college lost its accreditation along with problems concerning some of the academic programs, the qualifications of staff members, money and influence by the board. Does she have an agenda?

She's had an agenda from the get-go and clearly strongly disliked Brooks from the time she met him. She's as much the instigator of this problem as anyone and her comments were clearly racially polarizing.

[EJC]

My opinion is similar to yours and I'm really confused about how this became about race.

I do know that Brooks isn't terribly respectful to the school board members and that borders insubordination. Still, it seems like a stern warning is more appropriate. I don't think the board will be successful in firing "with cause".

I bet there's a big shakeup in the school board over the next few years. I don't think anyone is gaining popularity over this.

As much as I'd like to think this is correct, I really doubt it. Ms Mitchell IS very polarizing and has shown little regard for improvement and appears more concerned with protecting jobs (even those admin and legal jobs created as a result of the Federal intervention...which is mystifying considering that they now add nothing but heavy overhead and the money can/should go towards the teachers and programs). However, it would also appear that she has her ward locked up, they believe in her, regardless of what she's really doing for them. Its sad and scary for the LRSD as it is promoting race politics into the school system.

On a somewhat related note, I'm not sure if any of you heard, or heard about Ward Connerly's lecture at the Philander Smith "Bless This Mic" series. But Mr Connerly gave his lecture on Wednesday and his message about ending racial preference is very inspiring.

[EJC]

Fascinating. I'm sure I don't agree with you, but this is not the place to be arguing about these things. On a completely differnt note, I got an email saying you wrote on my profile?? How do I access this to see what you wrote?

Yes, we are welcome to disagree about unions, teachers and how to deal with underperforming, tenure, etc.

What we absolutely cannot disagree on is the simple fact that during Mr Brooks tenure, we have for the first time in decades, seen REAL MEASURABLE improvements in student scores. And this is, in large part, what we ask of our schools.

In addition, we can also not disagree that we have, for the first time since the late 50s, gotten out from under Federal scrutiny. The LRSD has spent millions of $ that should be going to teachers and programs (perhaps your mother and aunt, I don't know...and one of my parents is a teacher for that matter), but it has been going towards adminstration and legal fees. These are facts (and has Kevin Bacon said), they are not in dispute.

I wrote in your profile that you should turn on your message capability as I wished to send something to you without cluttering these boards. That's all.

[abdintp]

Yes, we are welcome to disagree about unions, teachers and how to deal with underperforming, tenure, etc.

What we absolutely cannot disagree on is the simple fact that during Mr Brooks tenure, we have for the first time in decades, seen REAL MEASURABLE improvements in student scores. And this is, in large part, what we ask of our schools.

In addition, we can also not disagree that we have, for the first time since the late 50s, gotten out from under Federal scrutiny. The LRSD has spent millions of $ that should be going to teachers and programs (perhaps your mother and aunt, I don't know...and one of my parents is a teacher for that matter), but it has been going towards adminstration and legal fees. These are facts (and has Kevin Bacon said), they are not in dispute.

I wrote in your profile that you should turn on your message capability as I wished to send something to you without cluttering these boards. That's all.

Yeah, I still can't figure out the whole message thing; I'm pretty computer retarded.

Seriously, though, I don't have any interest in arguing about teachers and testing; we've argued enough already, and I imagine some people are getting sick of it.

[EJC]

Yeah, I still can't figure out the whole message thing; I'm pretty computer retarded.

Seriously, though, I don't have any interest in arguing about teachers and testing; we've argued enough already, and I imagine some people are getting sick of it.

I don't think there's anything to argue about anyway;)

We'll see what the next 2 weeks brings in the case that the Board is bringing against Mr. Brooks.

[Aporkalypse]

As much as I'd like to think this is correct, I really doubt it. Ms Mitchell IS very polarizing and has shown little regard for improvement and appears more concerned with protecting jobs (even those admin and legal jobs created as a result of the Federal intervention...which is mystifying considering that they now add nothing but heavy overhead and the money can/should go towards the teachers and programs). However, it would also appear that she has her ward locked up, they believe in her, regardless of what she's really doing for them. Its sad and scary for the LRSD as it is promoting race politics into the school system.

On a somewhat related note, I'm not sure if any of you heard, or heard about Ward Connerly's lecture at the Philander Smith "Bless This Mic" series. But Mr Connerly gave his lecture on Wednesday and his message about ending racial preference is very inspiring.

What I meant by "big shakeup" is that we will see most of the current school board, including Ms Mitchell, voted out. I don't think the black residents in LR like this kind of polarization and I think that this kind of debacle will double or triple the usually paltry turnout for school board elections and a lot of retirees and private school parents that don't usually vote will show up to vote out Curry and some of the others that are ousting Brooks. I think this will be even more true if this turns into a drawn out debacle with a lawsuit by Brooks or parents.

[theman]

What I meant by "big shakeup" is that we will see most of the current school board, including Ms Mitchell, voted out. I don't think the black residents in LR like this kind of polarization and I think that this kind of debacle will double or triple the usually paltry turnout for school board elections and a lot of retirees and private school parents that don't usually vote will show up to vote out Curry and some of the others that are ousting Brooks. I think this will be even more true if this turns into a drawn out debacle with a lawsuit by Brooks or parents.

I don't necessarily agree with you. I think Curry and the other African American were voted in because of Brooks. Many African Americans liked Dr. Holmes, the interim superintendent before Brooks and when he was not chosen as one of the finalist that upset a lot of people. Many African Americans resent the fact that Brooks closed schools like Mitchell when they were told they were going to be repaired. Some think that the money for those schools are going to the new school in west Little Rock. Personally, I don't mind some of the older schools being closed. The main thing is friction between the Classroom Teachers Assoc. and Brooks. That's where sides have been taken. Those who support the the Assoc. and those who support Brooks. Those two entities need to come to some understanding and learn to respect one another. Until that happens or Brooks is fired there is going to be turmoil in the LRSD.

[Aporkalypse]

I don't necessarily agree with you. I think Curry and the other African American were voted in because of Brooks. Many African Americans liked Dr. Holmes, the interim superintendent before Brooks and when he was not chosen as one of the finalist that upset a lot of people. Many African Americans resent the fact that Brooks closed schools like Mitchell when they were told they were going to be repaired. Some think that the money for those schools are going to the new school in west Little Rock. Personally, I don't mind some of the older schools being closed. The main thing is friction between the Classroom Teachers Assoc. and Brooks. That's where sides have been taken. Those who support the the Assoc. and those who support Brooks. Those two entities need to come to some understanding and learn to respect one another. Until that happens or Brooks is fired there is going to be turmoil in the LRSD.

I actually don't disagree with anything you said but I think two things will happen:

1) Additional black candidates will enter the race and claim to be a more unitary, less polarizing influence on the school board. This will be true even if they were people that would've also supported Brooks' ouster. Anyway, these will split the black vote and possibly oust Mitchell. I think that Hussman and the business community will back every opponent that takes on the four members that ousted Brooks, whether they are black or white.

2) Reversal of the 4-3 black majority back to a 5-2 minority. The voting base is largely white and in the past has been apathetic to school board elections. As I said before, I think this will end their apathy and they will be more mobilized to come out and vote in the elections which I suspect will turn around two of the seats.

3) I think there's no solution that will make everyone happy except a fresh start. A new superintendent won't be enough, the school board will need cleansing as well.

4) Holmes didn't exactly do a good job in New Orleans. I think there would be a huge uproar if he was hired.

[EJC]

I actually don't disagree with anything you said but I think two things will happen:

1) Additional black candidates will enter the race and claim to be a more unitary, less polarizing influence on the school board. This will be true even if they were people that would've also supported Brooks' ouster. Anyway, these will split the black vote and possibly oust Mitchell. I think that Hussman and the business community will back every opponent that takes on the four members that ousted Brooks, whether they are black or white.

2) Reversal of the 4-3 black majority back to a 5-2 minority. The voting base is largely white and in the past has been apathetic to school board elections. As I said before, I think this will end their apathy and they will be more mobilized to come out and vote in the elections which I suspect will turn around two of the seats.

3) I think there's no solution that will make everyone happy except a fresh start. A new superintendent won't be enough, the school board will need cleansing as well.

4) Holmes didn't exactly do a good job in New Orleans. I think there would be a huge uproar if he was hired.

Mitchell is not going anywhere. She has her ward locked up and the voters she represents are behind her. Nobody likes turmoil, but when they feel it's justified, then they are happy that someone stuck up for them. I'm not saying that I believe she's doing what's right, but it's clear as of right now, that those that vote in her ward, do think she's sticking up for them.

[Aporkalypse]

Mitchell is not going anywhere. She has her ward locked up and the voters she represents are behind her. Nobody likes turmoil, but when they feels it's justified, then they are happy that someone stuck up for them. I'm not saying that I believe she's doing what's right, but it's clear as of right now, that those that vote in her ward, do think she's sticking up for them.

Interesting, I think she's really the person that comes out of this looking the worst.

We'll see, maybe someone that the community would really rally behind will run for a couple of these positions. I'd love to see Mason involved in the LRSD but he and Walker live out in Chenal.

[EJC]

Interesting, I think she's really the person that comes out of this looking the worst.

We'll see, maybe someone that the community would really rally behind will run for a couple of these positions. I'd love to see Mason involved in the LRSD but he and Walker live out in Chenal.

You and I think that. But we're exactly the people she has stated that Dr. Brooks is out to protect. We're NOT her constituency.

[theman]

I actually don't disagree with anything you said but I think two things will happen:

1) Additional black candidates will enter the race and claim to be a more unitary, less polarizing influence on the school board. This will be true even if they were people that would've also supported Brooks' ouster. Anyway, these will split the black vote and possibly oust Mitchell. I think that Hussman and the business community will back every opponent that takes on the four members that ousted Brooks, whether they are black or white.

2) Reversal of the 4-3 black majority back to a 5-2 minority. The voting base is largely white and in the past has been apathetic to school board elections. As I said before, I think this will end their apathy and they will be more mobilized to come out and vote in the elections which I suspect will turn around two of the seats.

3) I think there's no solution that will make everyone happy except a fresh start. A new superintendent won't be enough, the school board will need cleansing as well.

4) Holmes didn't exactly do a good job in New Orleans. I think there would be a huge uproar if he was hired.

I don't know about reversing the board back to a 5-2 black minority. Even though the voting base is largely white, many don't have kids in the LRSD so they don't have a dog in the hunt. Many African Americans have made an investment in the LRSD by voting for milleage increases to improve the district. The majority white Pulaski County district has not been able to do the same. Many African Americans think that Brooks is against them and the schools in their neighborhoods.

Superintendents are like college and pro coaches, they are recycled all of the time. Someone can do a bad job in a school district and when they are let go there is another waiting to hire them. I wouldn't put too much into Holmes not doing a good job in New Orleans. That school district makes Little Rock's look like its the best in the nation. I don't know if anyone could do much to the New Orleans schools.

[EJC]

Superintendents are like college and pro coaches, they are recycled all of the time. Someone can do a bad job in a school district and when they are let go there is another waiting to hire them. I wouldn't put too much into Holmes not doing a good job in New Orleans. That school district makes Little Rock's look like its the best in the nation. I don't know if anyone could do much to the New Orleans schools.

All true, but why would LR want a "recycled coach" when the one it has is showing performance gains? The sad part of this whole argument is that this process is ignoring the the actual improvements in student achievement....which is the school's primary mission.