Green Square & NCSECU HQ

[JeffC]

update from this morning: one building down, two to go!

On another note, that block has a nice stand of pretty old crape myrtles as street trees...I hope they manage to keep those alive during the construction (I don't notice crape myrtles on any other blocks in the immediate area, so this is either a remnant of when this area was residential/small business, or some long-ago Eagle Scout project...

[askmisterbrown]

There is also a beautiful stone wall facing Jones St. There was a fine Italianate house here. It was moved to 109 South Bloodworth St. in 1988. At about the same time, the old store on the corner was torn down.

[Jones_]

There is also a beautiful stone wall facing Jones St. There was a fine Italianate house here. It was moved to 109 South Bloodworth St. in 1988. At about the same time, the old store on the corner was torn down.

Ah...I saw that wall and took a picture with the idea that I'd one day get a pic of the old house....being fairly young I am playing a lot of catchup on the houses that were moved.....

Here is the picture....I always wondered where that one used to be....the one beside it with the turret used to be in Peace Colleges parking lot. The one from Jones Street looks just like one that used to sit where the Norwood House is in City Market and looks just like one on North Blount too...possibly Heck builders if I remember correctly....

(sorry I know this mostly belongs in the History thread)

[JeffC]

FYI, the groundbreaking is scheduled for next Tuesday, the 22nd, at 10 am at the corner of Jones and Salisbury (not sure about exact site on Jones Street...just follow the crowds...)

[Tayfromcarolina]

Good news! Long time coming. I guess the State Employees Credit Union is going to remain for a while longer, which is just as well. They just upgraded there computers and customer interfaces.

[pdxheel]

Don't get your hopes up for this project to really get started any time soon. According to those close to the project there is still some concern over the design of the building. State employee parking, which was temporarily moved from the site, has returned on half of the block. It will be a while before this project gets going.

[DanRNC]

There is a blurb about the groundbreaking in the N&O today.

Story

[ChiefJoJo]

Also, the elevation view and site plan.

I guess they are building a new SECU structure (see site plan). Aren't skywalks relics of the 1980s? Keeping people up off the street in an a/c-ed enclosure does not seem very 'green' to me.

[JeffC]

Also, the elevation view and site plan.

I guess they are building a new SECU structure (see site plan). Aren't skywalks relics of the 1980s? Keeping people up off the street in an a/c-ed enclosure does not seem very 'green' to me.

I think, unfortunately, that is the same old ugly SECU building that is there now...It is going to look even more out of place between the nicely renovated Old Education Bldg. and Green Square.

As for the skywalks, the first building next to SECU is an integral part of the museum, so it is necessary for visitors to be able to go between the buildings without going back outside. As for the skywalk across Dawson to the DENR building, have you every tried to cross Dawson? It is an extremely dangerous street for a grade level crossing, as motorists motor down the hill from the Hillsborough/Edenton intersections at very high speeds, afraid they will not make the stop lights...

[Jones_]

That credit union floor plate is different that whats on the site currently...so you either have an expansion or a replacement. Also, I wonder if the parking deck behind the museum part will be wrapped in retail at least on the ground floor. You can't tell from the elevation view because its behind the museum and I have not heard one way or the other.

[pdxheel]

There is a blurb about the groundbreaking in the N&O today.

Story

The ground breaking is premature to coincide with Earth Week (political publicity). Trust me when I say the actual start of construction will not happen fo a while.

[ChiefJoJo]

If you look at the site plan, and compare it to the existing site layout, clearly there is a plan to do some renovations or new construction in the SECU building. I have not heard mention of SECU's involvement in quite some time though.

W/r/t the skywalks, I cross McDowell on foot at least twice per day, and have nearly been hit a few times, so I know the hazards of the Dawson/McDowell pair better than most. If the museum expansion to the west is an extension of a similar type of exhibit or it requires lot of staff foot traffic back and forth, then I can see that. But, if it's not a direct extension of the current museum exhibits, then I would much rather see a new exit made at ground level on the existing museum to the street level. Salisbury traffic is very sparce and easy to cross. On the DENR side, I still don't think a skywalk makes sense, except *maybe* if the parking deck for employees is on the Jones/Salisbury museum block. As an point of camparison, the Wake Co parking deck/L-bldg on the other side of DT is going up at Davie and Dawson St. The Wake Justice Center (where most of those employees will work) is going up at Martin and McDowell St. Those folks will have to cross McDowell St too, and probably a lot more of them (900+ space deck). No skywalks there.

This kind of thing is exactly why the state should repeal the bill that exempts city review of state property downtown. This is all about a perpective, and a philosophy and for the most part, the state sucks at this. Livable Streets was all about activating the street. I don't see how a bunch of new skywalks is going to do anything in keeping with that goal, much less move towards a 'greener' future. Maybe it's a small thing, but to me, constructing a building that is designed to keep all of it's patrons/users inside as much as possible (using more energy and burning more carbon) is not in keeping with sustainability goals. How about some street retail? Zero/minimal carbon footprint?

A more comprehensive solution would be to have the state begin to address traffic calming issues on Dawson/McDowell... altering the signal coordination so people aren't encouraged to speed through and beat the last yellow light... more ped green time for cross streets (~10-12 sec now)... allowing on-street parking in certain locations... high visibility crosswalks... strictly enforcing the 35mph limit (people regularly go 45+)... route 70/50/401 on the Beltline.

I agree that McDowell/Dawson is a major issue, and with some of these new projects opening up (L-bldg, WJC, RCC, Hue, Hillsborough St hotels), I guarantee we will see problems. I suspect until someone is badly hurt/killed crossing it, nothing will be done to correct the conflicts with pedestrian safety.

I'll get off my soap box now...

[askmisterbrown]

Chief, I agree with you about the skywalks, especially the skywalk over Salisbury St. The view south on Salisbury St. between the Natural Sciences Museum and the Credit Union is one of Raleigh's nicer vistas, with First Baptist, Wachovia, the old Education Bldg., etc. I would hate to see it messed up. I also don't see why so much money should be spent on skywalks just so people don't have to walk outside for 30 yards!

[ChiefJoJo]

BTW, I walked over and looked at the project sign and included on the poster included the words: "sustainable demolition of three existing buildings." Well, you see two below (Old DOT Bldg & Old YMCA), so that must mean the SECU will go as well (no other bldgs that I can see), even though they are not listed as a partner on the project.

rubble from the old DOT building at McDowell & Jones (today):

the old YMCA, pending final demolition at Dawson & Jones (today):

[rooster8]

"sustainable demolition of three existing buildings." Well, you see two below (Old DOT Bldg & Old YMCA), so that must mean the SECU will go as well (no other bldgs that I can see), even though they are not listed as a partner on the project.

I think the third building was/is the Elks building.

[dmccall]

Well, this project and Meeker's plea may come to the forefront of the gubernatorial race. In all of Perdue's Edwardsian violin playing about how hard it is for everyone (nevermind that we could not book a $400+ a night room at Disney for our vacation because of excess demand. Want a nice restaurant, book it 180+days out because they are slam full), we've seen no evidence that Perdue wants to centralize the state government and bring thousands of workers back to our urban core. Meanwhile McCrory's track record on urban renewal speaks for itself. If the state government goes like Charlotte has under McCrory, expect big time urban renewal projects across the state.

I'd like to see our State government get on the page of all the good work that has happened around here recently. They need to listen to Meeker.

[DPK]

I think a lot of people are sick of Meeker and the Purdue types. I know I am. He really pissed me off when he started running those ads for Hillary Clinton on tv. Then she lost in our state yesterday, so what does that say about him. He has no clue what we want in this state.

I really want McCrory to win.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I think a lot of people are sick of Meeker and the Purdue types. I know I am. He really pissed me off when he started running those ads for Hillary Clinton on tv. Then she lost in our state yesterday, so what does that say about him. He has no clue what we want in this state.

I really want McCrory to win.

This is of course off topic, but both Meeker and Perdue went for Obama, not Hillary!

Now back on topic.

Would McCrory really help revitalize Raleigh's downtown?

[dmccall]

And certainly I meant for the political introduction merely to be framed in the light of what each candidate would do for a) government complex development and b) getting the state on the same page with what Raleigh wants.

This is important because of the recent complaints from Mayor Meeker that the state is able to skirt the local planning process and put in things like parking decks with blank walls, etc.

I, for one, think that Green Square continues as planned with either candidate. I think the chances for a redesign are better with McCrory, but that could be good or bad. He's probably more in-tune with the topic of pedestrian planning and transit given Charlotte's recent improvements. On the other hand, if he is a strict conservative, then he'd cancel the whole project, pave the lot, and keep govt employees in the cheapest, shabbiest offices that can be found in the county.

It's going to be an interesting election because I don't think the gubernatorial candidates quite fit into the the classic liberal/conservative packages that people like to create.

[ncwebguy]

Disney's hotel rooms and restaurants are slammed because the weak US dollar is attracting a lot of foreign tourism, especially from countries on the Euro and Pound Sterling. It would be nice to see some of that money come to our area, but Green Square in itself isn't going to make that happen. It would be cool to position Raleigh as a 21st century innovation/eco-tourism destination, but that is going to require more than a shimmer wall on the convention center and LEDs in trafic signals and parking deck lighting.

A Govenor McCrory administration could go either way -- a strong Green Square with corporate investment (via sponsored displays and/or research in the labs -- "selling out science" or "synergy"?) or a weakened DENR with a slashed budget (punishment for keeping Duke Power in check) and office space leased from the lowest bidder. I could see him distributing state government jobs across the state (or just shipped to Charlotte) in the name of "job creation" and/or "economic stimulus". This might be good for some programs, but has not worked so well for one of McCrory's biggest pet peeve -- NCDOT.

Perdue's "green jobs" initiative could lead to a stronger Green Square, but down east politicians have been notoriously anti-urban, not seeing the forest for the saved trees.

[Subway Scoundrel]

Well, this project and Meeker's plea may come to the forefront of the gubernatorial race. In all of Perdue's Edwardsian violin playing about how hard it is for everyone (nevermind that we could not book a $400+ a night room at Disney for our vacation because of excess demand. Want a nice restaurant, book it 180+days out because they are slam full), we've seen no evidence that Perdue wants to centralize the state government and bring thousands of workers back to our urban core. Meanwhile McCrory's track record on urban renewal speaks for itself. If the state government goes like Charlotte has under McCrory, expect big time urban renewal projects across the state.

I'd like to see our State government get on the page of all the good work that has happened around here recently. They need to listen to Meeker.

I think McCrory has pushed the urban core when others are paying for it like Wachovia and The Monster Bank of America, but when it is Raleigh, state government and he has think tanks who got him in the gov mansion, I am not so sure he will push for state governmnet urban core. I will believe it when I see it. And although I have not heard Perdue say she will, I have not heard her say she will not.

This coming from someone who has partied with the Charlotte canidate and has close family who are long time freinds of his.

[DPK]

This is of course off topic, but both Meeker and Perdue went for Obama, not Hillary!

Sorry, I got caught up in a rant moment, lol. I meant to say Easley for Hillary.

[ChiefJoJo]

Gov. Easley once again included $109.5M for the Green Square project in his proposed budget. Post construction, all DENR employees will be in this bldg or Archdale in the downtown complex. The total project cost is $150M.

I doubt we will have to worry about the next Governor w/r/t this project. It seems like they are committed at this point, and this budget proposal extends thru June 2009.

[bone450]

Does anyone know why they demolishing the buildings on McDowell Street at Lane Street?

[DPK]

My guess being that it has something to do with Green Square.