North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[orulz]

Sorry for the dumb question but...where specifically is CSX's Tryon Street yard currently? Is it right beside the Amtrak station?

That's not a dumb question. CSX's Tryon Street yard is actually on the bridge over Tryon Street, behind the old Seaboard Station-cum-homeless shelter.

It's a pretty small yard, and I think it's pretty much only used for interchange with Norfolk-Southern.

[Otto]

The draft EIS for Raleigh-Richmond is due to be signed by the FRA by the end of the month according to this page.

I wonder whether being signed by the FRA means it can be released for public consumption, or if they plan on trying to control the release of information to the public (I've heard May as the date that public hearings will begin.)

Once the FRA signs the DEIS, this means that they approve of the environmental studies and technical studies encompassed in the report. Once it is approved (signed), then they will release it to the public and hold a series of public hearings.

[Brendan]

Did anyone see the recent article in the Cary News where several on the Cary Town Council whined about the high-speed rail line?

http://www.carynews....s-skeptics.html

What I find laughable is the quote:

Because of this possible change to Academy Street and Harrison Avenue, the project could slow the town's plans for downtown redevelopment, officials worry.

"We fear this could impede on the ability for people to move around in this area," Councilwoman Jennifer Robinson said Tuesday. "We don't feel like we could go on with the redevelopment of downtown."

Really? There hasn't been any real true downtown development in Cary since what, 1890?

I'm not holding my breath.

[orulz]

There were a few downtown developments in Cary back in the 80s and 90s, but nothing spectacular or even particularly nice. The town is planning on spending tens of millions of dollars on a new streetscape and a new grade separation at Walker Street, however.

The railroad situation in Cary is complicated by the fact that there are two railroads: the NCRR and the CSX.

I can't imagine that Harrison Avenue would ever possibly be closed. A quick glance and measurement on Google Maps reveals that it shoud be possible to drop Harrison under the NCRR tracks without impacting any buildings. The Harrison/CSX crossing would probably remain at-grade, though, since the CSX tracks are less busy, and are closer to Chatham Street.

Academy Street would be tough to grade separate, since you'd have to cross under both the CSX and the NS at once. Academy could be closed with little impact to traffic, especially after the Walker extension is built, but closing Academy would be a shame since it would tear up Cary's grid. So I'd rather just see Academy stay at-grade.

[mattm]

There were a few downtown developments in Cary back in the 80s and 90s, but nothing spectacular or even particularly nice. The town is planning on spending tens of millions of dollars on a new streetscape and a new grade separation at Walker Street, however.

The railroad situation in Cary is complicated by the fact that there are two railroads: the NCRR and the CSX.

I can't imagine that Harrison Avenue would ever possibly be closed. A quick glance and measurement on Google Maps reveals that it shoud be possible to drop Harrison under the NCRR tracks without impacting any buildings. The Harrison/CSX crossing would probably remain at-grade, though, since the CSX tracks are less busy, and are closer to Chatham Street.

Academy Street would be tough to grade separate, since you'd have to cross under both the CSX and the NS at once. Academy could be closed with little impact to traffic, especially after the Walker extension is built, but closing Academy would be a shame since it would tear up Cary's grid. So I'd rather just see Academy stay at-grade.

It's interesting that the Cary News only quoted the Republican members of the council. The council has been aware of the SEHSR

project for quite some time; these members have just been burying their heads in the sand about it because they seemed to think

that it was the same as the Regional Rail project.

The Walker St. underpass has been planned for almost 10 years now, and is meant to be the main route past the tracks. Both Academy

and Harrison will have a rough time moving much traffic if there's a regional rail train going by every 5 minutes. However, both

of those projects are in the far-off land of "not funded". The increased freight traffic on the CSX line made possible by the A

line reconnection won't be much of an issue because it will be off the peak traffic flows. The commuter trains stopping at

Cary WILL be a pretty big tie-up for traffic, though. Cars back up almost to Chapel Hill Rd when the Carolinian stops for passengers

in the evening.

-- Matt

[orulz]

The problem is, asking traffic southbound on (four-lane) Harrison to jog two blocks east on Chapel Hill Rd and then south on (two-lane) Walker is absurd. Harrison is and should remain the primary north-south route through downtown Cary. In fact the town plans on extending South Harrison past Cary Elementary to connect to Kildare Farm Road.

If they can just grade separate Harrison and the NCRR, the major issue pretty much will melt away. For an underpass with a clearance of 17 feet and a maximum roadway grade of 6%, it requires 350 feet. That should be possible, since there are about 400 feet between the CSX and NCRR tracks at Harrison, and over 600 between the NCRR and Chapel Hill Rd. This would require re-grading about three or four driveways. So, it's clearly possible, without changing the grade of the NCRR at all. However, construction would be disruptive. The Walker underpass would probably have to be open first as a detour, and Chapel Hill Road widened to four lanes, before Harrison could be closed for construction.

The grade crossing of Harrison and the CSX would remain, since it's less than 350 feet from Chatham Street, but as you point out, that's a non-issue because it sees so little train traffic.

As for Academy, take it or leave it. It's nice to have the extra connectivity, but it's also nice to have fewer grade crossings and fewer train horns.

[kermit]

Not sure if it has been posted here but the proposed schedule for the midday trains is:

There's a document on the bytrain.org website dated 9-28-2009

with these proposed timetables for 75 and 74.

75:

RGH 1150 (depart)

CYN 1202

DNC 1222

BNC 1258

GRO 1323

HPT 1340

SAL 1414

KAN 1430

CLT 1502

74:

CLT 1230 (depart)

KAN 1257

SAL 1313

HPT 1345

GRO 1406

BNC 1427

DNC 1405

CYN 1524

RGH 1543

The document also advances the departure of 80 from CLT to 0730.

Presumably 80 will have left RGH before 75 pulls into the station

to board... and presumably 74 will detrain and clear the RGH

station before 79 rolls in.

----

I received this from the CAPT listserv.

I also heard that the first 2 days of service (in early May) will be free (FWIW)

[tozmervo]

Has anyone taken their bike(s) on board? I was pondering taking my bike to Raleigh one Saturday this spring to explore a bit before coming back in the afternoon.

Well, upon further reading, it would appear that the Carolinian isn't quite as bike-friendly as the Piedmont. Ah well.

Edited March 3, 2010 by tozmervo

[orulz]

Has anyone taken their bike(s) on board? I was pondering taking my bike to Raleigh one Saturday this spring to explore a bit before coming back in the afternoon.

Well, upon further reading, it would appear that the Carolinian isn't quite as bike-friendly as the Piedmont. Ah well.

I have taken my bike on the Piedmont and it works great. You just walk your bike up to the baggage car on the platform and pass it up to the conductor (or is it the assistant conductor?)

I think that the Carolinian requires either foldable bikes that you carry yourself, or boxed bikes in the checked baggage. However, the mid-day Piedmont will be just as bike-friendly as the current one. You would probably want to make a weekend trip out of it (come down on Saturday afternoon, and leave on Sunday afternoon) since rumor now has it the train will start in early May.

For some inexpensive but pretty decent hotels near downtown Raleigh, I suggest the Clarion. Rates are in the $70-$80 range on weekends. (But don't expect to get those rates on graduation weekend, May 15.) Views are pretty nice on higher floors. The Holiday Inn Brownstone is similar but closer to NC State. The Sheraton and Marriott are a bit more expensive.

[ERJ170]

Great to see a proposed timeframe. May is definitely not March, but still works well.

2 Things I want to say..

1. Downtown Raleigh needs a lot more hotels. When someone from my company has a meeting in Raleigh at the convention center, the Sheraton and the Marriott is always booked. Can we get an Intercontiental, W, Holiday Inn Express, Hyatt, Four Points, and Hilton downtown?

2. I still think NCDOT should consider a weekly train to Morehead City during the warmer months.. They could run it Sat/Sun only.. let the midday Piedmont run M-F and then run Morehead City Sat-Sun. Just an idea... it would make getting to the beach VERY exciting.. and a lot less traffic on the road..

[orulz]

1. Downtown Raleigh needs a lot more hotels. When someone from my company has a meeting in Raleigh at the convention center, the Sheraton and the Marriott is always booked. Can we get an Intercontiental, W, Holiday Inn Express, Hyatt, Four Points, and Hilton downtown?

Agreed.

2. I still think NCDOT should consider a weekly train to Morehead City during the warmer months.. They could run it Sat/Sun only.. let the midday Piedmont run M-F and then run Morehead City Sat-Sun. Just an idea... it would make getting to the beach VERY exciting.. and a lot less traffic on the road..

Yes, you've suggested this before, but the signaling and track on the NCRR out to Morehead City is in no way adequate for passenger trains. Trains would probably take upwards six hours one way, complicated by things like lots of speed restrictions, and manually thrown switches (meaning that every time a passenger and a freight train meet, somebody has to step out of the train, walk to the switch, and throw it by hand.)

NC will probably upgrade the line to Morehead, eventually, but it's pretty low on the priority list - will probably happen only after the SEHSR, Asheville, and Wilmington lines are built.

[ERJ170]

So today is March 21st. I still see nothing for the start date for the new Piedmont. Does anyone know what the hold-up is? Are the engines rehab completed? Are all the cars received and ready? Are they waiting for the actual funds from the Feds? What's the hold up? I was hoping to at least see it available for sale by now...

one more question.. Could there be a possibility of an Express RGH-CLT route that runs non-stop through Fuquay, Sanford, then along the ACWR line?

Just a thought.

[hcjohnsoiv]

So today is March 21st. I still see nothing for the start date for the new Piedmont. Does anyone know what the hold-up is? Are the engines rehab completed? Are all the cars received and ready? Are they waiting for the actual funds from the Feds? What's the hold up? I was hoping to at least see it available for sale by now...

one more question.. Could there be a possibility of an Express RGH-CLT route that runs non-stop through Fuquay, Sanford, then along the ACWR line?

Just a thought.

I saw the new engine and cars parked at the Capital yard last weekend...looked ready to go but then again I wasn't close up.

[orulz]

Last I heard, the tentative date for the start of the midday train is Saturday May 8th, though that could get pushed further back still as the budget is tight this year.

[orulz]

Looks like they might finally be getting ready to release the draft Tier II EIS on the SEHSR website. There's currently a space on the front page for the announcement and a headline, but no data underneath it.

Hopefully they will release the documents to their website in advance of the hearings. Not much point in showing up to a public hearing if you haven't had a chance to review the document ahead of time.

[hcjohnsoiv]

http://marynewsom.blogspot.com/2010/03/nc-adds-charlotte-raleigh-train.html

Looks like June 5th is the start date!!!

[ERJ170]

Well, it's about time. it also says the 4th (3rd Piedmont) frequency starts in 2012. I wonder if it will be pushed back (LOL)...

So now it's time to start working on some of the new routes.. :-) PLEASE!!!

[mallguy]

Well, it's about time. it also says the 4th (3rd Piedmont) frequency starts in 2012. I wonder if it will be pushed back (LOL)...

So now it's time to start working on some of the new routes.. :-) PLEASE!!!

This is great news. Do we know what the new consist will be? Similar rebuilt cars from the '60s?

[uptownliving]

Saturday June 5th will be the day they start the mid day Charlotte/Raleigh trains.

This will make train travel a LOT more conveinent. I much prefer the mid day train then having to stay an extra night to take the early train or wait the whole day to take the 5pm train. Thumbs up to NCDOT for getting this off the ground and running. Plus the trip is down to about 3 hours door to door which is pretty good compared to a car and much better than a bus.

Charlotte -> Raleigh

7:30am

12:30pm

5:15pm

Raleigh -> Charlotte

6:50am

11:50am

4:50pm

More details here:

https://apps.dot.state.nc.us/pio/releases/details.aspx?r=3481

[tozmervo]

This has never really been clear to me - does anyone know what the time improvement will be after the ARRA upgrades? IE, by the time the fourth frequency starts?

[hcjohnsoiv]

This has never really been clear to me - does anyone know what the time improvement will be after the ARRA upgrades? IE, by the time the fourth frequency starts?

I'm under the impression that the greatest speed improvements between Raleigh-Charlotte will be realized with the implementation of Positive Train Control (at least in the near future).

[sax184]

This has never really been clear to me - does anyone know what the time improvement will be after the ARRA upgrades? IE, by the time the fourth frequency starts?

Looking at the GRO-CLT track improvements page for NCDOT Rail, I count 6 minutes of travel saved by medium-term investments (next 4-6 years) between those stations.

The Raleigh-Greensboro piece only has 1 more minute to be saved in the short term.

So maybe the 3:12 trip is down to 3:05 by 2013-2014. Positive Train Control raises many speeds to 90 mph on straight track sections, so that will probably knock another 5-10 minutes off.

Projects that straighten curves are the most powerful for travel time savings on these lines.

[orulz]

The biggest savings will be achieved when the trains to Washington start rolling. From what I've seen, at least some of those trains will run express in NC, Raleigh-Greensboro-Charlotte or maybe Raleigh-Durham-Greensboro-Charlotte. Cutting out the extra stops is what will get the travel time down to 2:15.

Another biggie is 5 minutes total savings due to moving from 3" unbalance to 4" unbalance. Basically, this means that passenger trains will move 5mph faster around every curve, without actually increasing the real superelevation (banking.) Roughly 4" is the maximum that NCDOT's locomotives are capable of. 5" is used for conventional equipment on Amtrak's NEC, and 7" for the Acela (which can tilt).

[ERJ170]

So when is Amtrak going to update the bookings? I've been playing around and there is nothing on Amtrak yet. No announcement. No uploaded schedules.. NOTHING!

[kermit]

The Piedmont had 5 cars (all the same vintage) as it came into Charlotte this morning -- I have never seen it with more than 3 before. Are they testing the new equipment?

FWIW.