North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[cowboy_wilhelm]

The project to replace the Durant Road crossing with an overpass in northern Wake County will be let in March. This will be the first new project to grade separate crossings along the S-Line.

Of note is the minimum vertical clearance of 24' 3" from the top of rail to the bridge. From what has been mentioned before and what I have been able to find online, this is the clearance required for future overhead electric catenary. The horizontal clearance between the bridge abutments will be wide enough to accommodate three additional tracks.

At least they're planning ahead and future-proofing.

The project is scheduled to be finished by January 2027.

Project Plans and Proposal

[kermit]

Its not much but worthwhile and possibly a seed for regional rail on the NCRR some day

Quote

City of Greensboro, N.C., will receive $500,000 to study strategies for TOD around the J. Douglas Gaylon Depot, Greensboro’s multimodal downtown transportation center that is used by Amtrak. The study will consider ways to revitalize the surrounding area through economic opportunities and integrating a wider array of housing options, according to FTA.

https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/tod-planning-projects-to-receive-17-6mm/

[jthomas]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

Its not much but worthwhile and possibly a seed for regional rail on the NCRR some day

https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/tod-planning-projects-to-receive-17-6mm/

Where do I sign up to perform this study?

Step 1 - sell the city-owned surface parking lots to somebody who wants to build something.

Step 2 - make sure the new plans contain more floor space for people than for cars.

Step 3 - Profit

 

It ain't rocket science, folks. Where's my $500K?

[kermit]

So this is interesting, the NCRR is starting a flagging and safety office. The suggestion here is the NCRR would begin to provide these necessary construction safety workers rather than (in addition to?) NS. This is a big deal since a shortage of NS flaggers significantly delayed the CATS Blue Line (southern portion) and created a few holdups on the BLE. Hopefully this is something that can streamline construction on the corridor.

I am interested to hear if NCDOT plans to put the portions of the S-Line they purchase under the NCRR umbrella. Anyone have any thoughts? [edit: I guess not since other recent NCDOT acquisitions(e.g. the Piedmomt & Northern) have not been folded into the NCRR]

https://www.railwayage.com/mw/ncrr-launches-flagging-and-safety-services/

 

Edited April 6 by kermit

[cowboy_wilhelm]

There's a lot of info in this recent presentation from the NCDOT Rail Division. S-Line: Building A Transformational Rail Corridor

• New trainsets for the Carolinian in 2027 and Piedmont in 2032 (isn't that a long delay?).
• "Control S-Line operational and schedule decisions into the future through acquisition of CSXT corridor."
• One of the maps shows an RTP station under development between Durham and Cary. First time I've seen that anywhere.
• Raleigh to Wake Forest S-Line funded for construction.
  • Grade crossings, concrete ties, high speed switches, etc.
  • Maynard Rd. and Trinity Rd. grade separations in Cary are also listed?
• Upcoming FY 24 Federal-State Partnership (FSP) grant opportunity to apply for constructing the Wake Forest to Henderson segment.
• Begin service to Wake Forest in 2030 and Henderson in 2032 (if funded).
• Future Corridor ID Program applications:
  • Raleigh to Greenville
  • Raleigh to Hamlet
  • Raleigh to Morehead City
  • Raleigh to Weldon
  • Charlotte to Winston-Salem

[kermit]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:02 PM, cowboy_wilhelm said:

• "Control S-Line operational and schedule decisions into the future through acquisition of CSXT corridor."
• Upcoming FY 24 Federal-State Partnership (FSP) grant opportunity to apply for constructing the Wake Forest to Henderson segment.
• Begin service to Wake Forest in 2030 and Henderson in 2032 (if funded)

It feels weird that there will likely be regional rail on the S-Line long before we see it on the much more populated NCRR. I am starting to get the sense that NS and the NCRR are a big part of the ridiculously high budgets (and poor quality) of the last two Triangle Commuter rail proposals. I can at least understand NS’ position, but the mission of the NCRR is to “improve the lives of North Carolinians”, I am starting to feel like they could be a more effective advocate for expanding passenger rail, particularly in the Triangle and points east.

Edited April 10 by kermit

[jthomas]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

It feels weird that there will likely be regional rail on the S-Line long before we see it on the much more populated NCRR. I am starting to get the sense that NS and the NCRR are a big part of the ridiculously high budgets (and poor quality) of the last two Triangle Commuter rail proposals. I can at least understand NS’ position, but the mission of the NCRR is to “improve the lives of North Carolinians”.

I wonder what would be NS's price to be bought out of their last 15-year option on the NCRR which would begin in 2029, if such a thing is even possible? It seems that the terms of the current lease really limit the use of a crucial piece of state-owned infrastructure. Buying out the lease could well be less expensive than the over-engineered projects that NS seems to insist on, not to mention the opportunity cost of waiting until 2044 to renegotiate the lease to more favorable terms.

Thinking outside of the box - could it be cost-effective for the state to fund freight bypasses and upgrades to secondary lines which would allow most freight to move off the NCRR, clearing the way for much higher frequency of passenger service on the existing infrastructure?

Edited April 9 by jthomas

[kermit]

45 minutes ago, jthomas said:

I wonder what would be NS's price to be bought out of their last 15-year option on the NCRR which would begin in 2029, if such a thing is even possible? It seems that the terms of the current lease really limit the use of a crucial piece of state-owned infrastructure. Buying out the lease could well be less expensive than the over-engineered projects that NS seems to insist on, not to mention the opportunity cost of waiting until 2044 to renegotiate the lease to more favorable terms.

Thinking outside of the box - could it be cost-effective for the state to fund freight bypasses and upgrades to secondary lines which would allow most freight to move off the NCRR, clearing the way for much higher frequency of passenger service on the existing infrastructure?

I am just an observer of this situation but I would bet on the following:

• NS would be happy to walk away from the NCRR east of Greensboro (I have been in Durham for the past six weeks and I have not seen a single freight pass (but a bunch of NCDOT funded trains). This is a peripheral part of their network and I can't imagine the commodity freight they get from Morehead City and the surrounding lumber mills justifies the expense.
• The NCRR  / NCDOT really does not want to pay for track maintenance on the NCRR (we saw this with the ARRA grant where they built Class 5 track west of Greensboro, but NCDOT never wanted to pay the incremental cost of inspections and maintenance so it has always been operated as class 4 (which NS was happy to maintain), I am not sure the NCDOT budget would allow for maintaining much mileage of passenger only tracks. 
• The Charlotte-Greensboro portion of the NCRR is a critical piece of the NS network, I doubt they would ever be willing to walk away from it (and this would be doubly true if they actually allow CATS to begin operating on the O-Line)

All of this adds up to a big "I don't know'.  I would think that NCDOT control of the NCRR would come at a cost that might be too high. But I guess this raises the question of how they plan to pay to maintain the S-Line tracks (and how Virginia plans to pay for maintenance on their rapidly expanding state-owned network)

I wonder if the NCDOT rail division would be interested in hiring an unpaid intern in his mid 50s who mostly just ease-drops on office conversations.

Edited April 9 by kermit

[jthomas]

7 minutes ago, kermit said:

I am just an observer of this situation but I would bet on the following:

• NS would be happy to walk away from the NCRR east of Greensboro (I have been in Durham for the past six weeks and I have not seen a single freight pass (but a bunch of NCDOT funded trains). This is a peripheral part of their network and I can't imagine the commodity freight they get from Morehead City and the surrounding lumber mills justifies the expense.
• The NCRR  / NCDOT really does not want to pay for track maintenance on the NCRR (we saw this with the ARRA grant where they built Class 5 track west of Greensboro, but NCDOT never wanted to pay the incremental cost of inspections and maintenance so it has always been operated as class 4 (which NS was happy to maintain), I am not sure the NCDOT budget would allow for maintaining much mileage of passenger only tracks. 
• The Charlotte-Greensboro portion of the NCRR is a critical piece of the NS network, I doubt they would ever be willing to walk away from it (and this would be doubly true if they actually allow CATS to begin operating on the O-Line)

All of this adds up to a big "I don't know'.  I would think that NCDOT control of the NCRR would come at a cost that might be too high. But I guess this raises the question of how they plan to pay to maintain the S-Line tracks.

I wonder if the NCDOT rail division would be interested in hiring an unpaid intern in his mid 50s who mostly just ease-drops on office conversations.

Yeah - it's true that the cost would be quite high. But if NCDOT was able to think holistically, it would be evident that any future road-based capacity expansions would be quite expensive too. IMO, there are only three justifiable freeway expansion projects left in the entire NC urban crescent:

• I-40 to six lanes between 40/85 split and Chapel Hill (in progress)
• I-85 to six lanes between 40/85 split and Durham
• I-40 to six lanes in Forsyth County

Otherwise, the freeway network should be considered to be mature, and all future expansion should be focused on growing rail capacity. Adding additional lanes along the length of 40/85 would be a multi-billion dollar project with marginal additional utility, so the rail investments begin to look more attractive in comparison.

 

[tozmervo]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:21 AM, jthomas said:

Yeah - it's true that the cost would be quite high. But if NCDOT was able to think holistically, it would be evident that any future road-based capacity expansions would be quite expensive too. IMO, there are only three justifiable freeway expansion projects left in the entire NC urban crescent:

• I-40 to six lanes between 40/85 split and Chapel Hill (in progress)
• I-85 to six lanes between 40/85 split and Durham
• I-40 to six lanes in Forsyth County

Otherwise, the freeway network should be considered to be mature, and all future expansion should be focused on growing rail capacity. Adding additional lanes along the length of 40/85 would be a multi-billion dollar project with marginal additional utility, so the rail investments begin to look more attractive in comparison.

Don't forget expanded I-77 south of Uptown Charlotte, aka the project that will bankrupt NCDOT. 

[jthomas]

Feasibility study complete on Raleigh to Wilmington:

https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2024/04/23/rail-study-estimates-wilmington-to-raleigh-passenger-service-would-be-810m-connect-through-goldsboro/

The price tag is not surprising considering the level of work needed on the line. Only thing disappointing to me is the proposed frequency - 2x/day to start with potential to expand to 3x/day.

[kermit]

The feasibility report for Raleigh-Wilmington passenger rail has been released:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/649c7228e2109c2801c8f2f3/t/6622fb82122a1e1538343ded/1713568652062/SENC+Passenger+Rail+Feasibility+Study+DRAFT+20240417.pdf

• The chosen routing is via Goldsboro rather than Fayetteville (no surprise).
• Tracks are planned to be built to class 4 (80mph passenger trains).
• Travel time is estimated to be 2:35.
• Ridership estimated at 80,000 per year at three round trips per day (Piedmont carries about 290,000) EDIT: I am confused about how ridership is discussed in the report, not sure what numbers are appropriate to report yet.
• Cost is estimated at $810 million. The press is making all kinds of noises about this in comparison to historic estimates but honestly this strikes me as a bargain and I would think federal funds will be available for this.
• There is some talk of the benefits of reopening a second freight route to Wilmington (the Fayetteville route would not) and the Department of Defense would be very happy about redundant rail access to Sunny Point. I doubt CSX would be willing to sell their portion of these tracks, but if they did it would be possible to have the port served by more than one freight carrier, this would make a huge difference to shipping traffic and help to pay for much of the track maintenance costs

EDIT: jthomas scoped me by seconds. Damn.

Edited Wednesday at 05:30 PM by kermit

[jthomas]

10 minutes ago, kermit said:

EDIT: jthomas scoped me by seconds. Damn.

LOL - guess we're both doing the same thing instead of working.

The potential for freight traffic on this line is an interesting angle and perhaps can help tip the scales in its favor. The article mentioned how it would provide a more direct connection to the CSX container hub in Rocky Mount. I would love for the state to buy the entire line between Goldsboro and Wilmington (I believe they already own the abandoned ROW between Wallace and Castle Hayne?). Perhaps CSX could be given access to Morehead City in exchange for NS getting access to Wilmington? That would definitely be in the best interests of both ports (and the state by extension).

[XRZ.ME]

Brightline West just broke ground while Brightline Florida is capacity constraint and ordering more coaches.

BTW, when will NCDOT announce new trainset orders. I remember there are grants a few years ago for this.