Florida or North Carolina?

[monsoon]

-Amtrak service being being brandished as "North Carolina Rail"

-Some high-speed rail planning that has not yet begun its detailed environmental and engineering studies. However, Florida completed these studies in 2003 for the first phase of its high-speed rail, and published a different planning study in 2003 for the second phase linking Orlando and Miami.

-Legitimate plans for commuter rail, which is on par with Florida's plans (excluding South Florida which already has commuter rail).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, Only one Amtrak route goes to Miami.

You are confusing Amtrak service with Amtrak routes. Both the NCDOT trains and Amtrak use these routes and their schedules are coordinated to make the service seamless. What you are missing is that some of the trains traveling between Charlotte and Raleigh are NC owned and allow for more frequent service than Amtrak would otherwise provide in NC. For example, the Piedmont only travels between Raleigh and Charlotte. Those rail corridors are not only shared by Amtrak and the NC RR, but also Freight lines. You will find that Train Service to Raleigh and Charlotte are much more frequent than the single Amtrak line that serves Miami.

There certainly are detailed environmental studies taking place for the SEHSPR. I suggest you look at their site for more information. Currently it is the only system in the USA approved for Tier II environmental studies which are taking place as we discuss this topic. In comparison, the project in Fla is dead. I suggest you look at Project History

I've already posted the information about the Commuter Rail plans in NC for RDU and CLT.

[monsoon]

This the map for EIS Stage II study for the SEHSPR project. One might ask where is the Charlotte to Raleigh part? That is not needed since this route is already carrying in-state passenger rail service.

[bic]

Heh..only one route goes to Southern Pines, North Carolina.

If you've looked at the location of Miami on a map, you'd see that it's near the tip of the Florida peninsula and the end of the line as far as Amtrak's rail service goes. North Carolina, however, needs multiple lines simply because there are more directional options to choose from. Routes coming down from the northeast need to split in order service Atlanta, Birmingham, New Orleans, as well as South Carolina and Florida without traveling too far out of the way. Florida will never be a major railroad hub for interstate travel, that's a given due to its geography. People using Amtrak in Miami have only one choice-- to go north. They can then transfer in Central Florida, Jacksonville, or other places farther north. This explains why Miami only receives service from one route. Wait a minute, it doesn't. Miami actually receives service from two lines, the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor. That's only one less line than Charlotte receives, despite its awful location at the bottom of the map. In addition, Miami already has an established network of Tri-Rail (commuter rail), Metrorail (heavy rail), and Metrorail (downtown circulator) to facilitate rail travel in South Florida.

The Carolinian Amtrak line features two trains a day between Charlotte and New York, one in each direction. The Piedmont does indeed run daily between Charlotte and Raleigh, but you forgot to mention that it leaves Raleigh at 7:15am and arrives in Charlotte at 10:40am. Its begins its return journey at 5:30pm and arrives in Raleigh at 8:55pm. That's a single train operation that is hardly the "much more frequent" service you claim to have.

Here's an Amtrak timetable for you: PDF

Okay, so detailed environmental studies are being conducted for North Carolina high-speed rail. Florida's has been finished for two years. Yes, Governor Bush endorsed an effort to repeal the 2000 amendment that mandated the construction of high-speed rail, but the Florida High Speed Rail Authority Act is still in effect. Currently a study is being finalized to redesign the suggested first phase route and align it along the Central Florida Greeneway. So both North Carolina and Florida are still in the proposal phase. We can argue about whose system might get federal funding first, but that's pointless. Let's leave high-speed rail out of this debate.

PS: Freight lines have nothing to do with this, so we can leave those out too.

[monsoon]

Florida's has been finished for two years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, Florida has not reached tierII EIS. Looking at their site, I noticed the voters, voted to repeal the amendment to the state constitution that required it in the first place in last fall's election. HSPR appears to be a dead issue in Fla for the forseeable future.

If Jeb Bush's brother manages to kill Amtrak as he says he is, then rail service to Fla. will disappear all together unless they can put together a service like the one in NC.

[up+down=midtown]

well all i have to say is that atleast miami has heavy unlike charlotte,also miami by itslef beats any or all skyline put together in NC.miami has bigger tourism numbers,better beaches.is more recognizable.better architecture,better mass transit, and in every way beats charlotte or any other city.

meaning that miami by itslef beats all of N.C. but if we add in the rest of florida we blow you guys up by about a mile

[monsoon]

While intercity rail appears to be dead in Fla. except for what Amtrak can provide. The NC RailRoad is continuing to look at options for bringing more state owned intercity rail to the state. In addition to the Piedmont and Carolinean which offer twice daily stops between the ciites between Charlotte and Raleigh. The state is looking to add a 3rd midday train that will operate between the two cities. (until the high speed rail is running)

There is also work towards bringing rail back to other parts of the state. This is the plan underway for Eastern NC. This is why it is big advantage for a state to operate its own passenger railroad. Even if Amtrak survives, they would never consider rail service such as this. Amtrak was one of the big failings of the late 20th century.

[A2]

well all i have to say is that atleast miami has heavy unlike charlotte,also miami by itslef beats any or all skyline put together in NC.miami has bigger tourism numbers,better beaches.is more recognizable.better architecture,better mass transit, and in every way beats charlotte or any other city. 

meaning that miami by itslef beats all of N.C. but if we add in the rest of florida we blow you guys up by about a mile

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THAT IS TOTALLY YOUR OPINION u+d=m. I can respect it, but opinions are a dime a dozen. I think this thread is getting ridiculous with the whole mine is better than your mentality. Agree to disageree guys.

A2

[up+down=midtown]

actually most of it is not opinion i can prove most of things i stated

1.no city in nc has heavy rail---fact

2. miami has a higher skyline ranking than any north carolina city(from world skyline rankings)-fact

3.fact miami passes any city or all cities in N.C. in terms of tourism ,CHARLOTTE BARELY MAKES THE LIST-fact

4.TRAVEL CHANNEL ranked the best beaches and miami beachs were rated higher-fact

5. more recognizable because of the tourism numbers and other factors

6.miami has been stated as one of the top10 locations in the U.S. TO see great architecture.-fact

7.i has better transit becuase of rideship and avaliable modes of transit-fact

[bic]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "tier II" EIS, but to quote the FHSRA:

"Presently, in early 2005, the Authority is in the process of completing the Final Environmental Impact Statement for the Tampa to Orlando Project Segment to reflect the new preferred route and expects that a Record of Decision will be issued by the Federal Railroad Administration in 2005."

Prior to this a different Final EIS was being considered before the amendment was repealed. The new study currently being completed will go before Florida legislation again to seek approval. Just like in North Carolina.

Now you're trying to bring in hypothetical situations to back-up your argument. IF Amtrak dies, North Carolina will be in as much trouble as Florida, since your passenger railroad is a joint venture between NCDOT and Amtrak...and even that is one-train Piedmont operation, two-train Carolinian operation, and Crescent line that runs through Charlotte twice a day. That doesn't sound like much frequency to me.

[Aessotariq]

Also, the Florida High Speed Rail Authority Act is still an active statute, entirely separate from the the constitutional amendment.

The High Speed Rail Authority still has a budget and raison d'

[A2]

actually most of it is not opinion i can prove most of things i stated

1.no city in nc has heavy rail---fact

2. miami has a higher skyline ranking than any north carolina city(from world skyline rankings)-fact

3.fact

[up+down=midtown]

no i have no problem but i was getting annoyed at monsoon and his criticizing post about any piece of info we posted.

i must say that i'm quite jealous of the fact that you guys have 2 of the largest banks and for such a small city are really making your presence felt.

[monsoon]

no i have no problem but i was getting annoyed at monsoon and his criticizing post about any piece of info we posted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's just a forum. You need to keep these things in perspective. Next time you see a "versus" thread I recommend you not click on it.

[Viper]

$211,000 - median price for a home in Jax last month.....up 25% from last year.

[ATLBrain]

The Harris Group released a poll this week that renders this poll and a few others here moot.

It asks respondents where they would like to live if not in their own state. Here are the top ten.

I'm not surprised that FLA is number 2! It's number 1 with me. I'm a bit surprised but proud nonetheless to see that NC and TN finished as well as they did as they are still perceived by non-southerners as being full of the stereotypical "folks" that Hollywood depicts all of us to be.

1

[RiversideGator]

That poll is certainly a more accurate reflection of national sentiment than this poll.

[depechecureguyorl]

^ I agree. It's quite clear this poll is dominated by forumers from NC, as FL clearly falls in the top 3 of National polls.

[9thWonder]

I'm biased, 'cause well, I live in Florida. I've never been to NC, but NC seems like a place I can vacation rather than live.

[MR-2]

The Harris Group released a poll this week that renders this poll and a few others here moot. 

It asks respondents where they would like to live if not in their own state.  Here are the top ten.

I'm not surprised that FLA is number 2!  It's number 1 with me.  I'm a bit surprised but proud nonetheless to see that NC and TN finished as well as they did as they are still perceived by non-southerners as being full of the stereotypical "folks" that Hollywood depicts all of us to be. 

1

[Viper]

^If non-tourist heavy states (NC, Oregon, TN) are in the top 10 then obviously this list isn't tourist based.

It even said in the polling question.

"Where they would like to live if not in their own state?"

[MR-2]

People want to live where good vacations are accessible. I was just noting that the list corresponds to the most geographically scenic states, barring a couple exceptions.

Probably how we got on the list in the first place. NC's cities aren't well-known, but if you look at any map of the US, it's clear we've got a great chunk of beach and mountains for our size and a decent enough amount of civilization.

Or maybe I'm wrong and it really was RTP or something. I'm inclined to think the former.

[A2]

For what it's worth No FL city was listed as a Hot place for singles in Forbes listing just released. I thought that was a bit much, but it is not my list. Raleigh and Atlanta made the list for Top Ten for singles, which I will not argue with, as I feel those cities definately make the cut.

Duke made the Top ten list for Higher Education for the upteenth time in a row. Three NC colleges made the Top thirty list.

Not one Florida school made it in the Top Ten , or for that matter the Top 30!

Singles Scene:

http://biz.yahoo.com/special/singles05.html

Best Colleges:

http://biz.yahoo.com/special/college05.html

Better cities for singles, better education systems, and cost of living do say something for where one lives and what makes a place desireable.

(on a side note Charlotte, NC remained Numero Uno for the Best City for Cost of Living in the US)

A2

[pb4uxplode]

A2... well Florida's colleges whoop up on NC's colleges when it comes to football... and college football is more important that any of that stuff... GO GATORS!!! SEC Champs 05...

[A2]

A2... well Florida's colleges whoop up on NC's colleges when it comes to football... and college football is more important that any of that stuff... GO GATORS!!! SEC Champs 05...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

haha. I do not doubt that. I am an Alabama Fan, so I am going to have to give a big ROOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Tide ROLL shout out. I am an SEC guy. I do believe that every school in FL could beat any of the teams in NC on the field. hands down.

FL State

Miami

or

Florida

(BTW, how about that game the other night. I can't believe FL knocked off Miami)

[pb4uxplode]

It was Florida State... and they suck... It's back to the glory years in the Swamp this year... GO GATORS!!!!! Oh yeah... and Florida is gonna ROLL over the Tide this year... in Bama too...