Light Rail in Northwest Arkansas

[itk]

I don't think this was noted in any newspapers or on this board but Mr. Goforth with BetaRubicon, everyone's favorite light-rail go-getter in NWA, will be speaking at the 2006 International Conference on Transportation and Economic Development (TED) in Little Rock next Wednesday. His talk is titled "Pushing and Pulling in Rail-based Transit System Development in Northwest Arkansas". Not really big news but I think it's interesting Goforth is still making speaches about light rail in NWA when supposedly he's not being paid for his efforts. Makes me wonder if he's doing this solely on his own dime and time. Either way he'll have some more ears to talk to.

[masons_dad1]

I don't think this was noted in any newspapers or on this board but Mr. Goforth with BetaRubicon, everyone's favorite light-rail go-getter in NWA, will be speaking at the 2006 International Conference on Transportation and Economic Development (TED) in Little Rock next Wednesday. His talk is titled "Pushing and Pulling in Rail-based Transit System Development in Northwest Arkansas". Not really big news but I think it's interesting Goforth is still making speaches about light rail in NWA when supposedly he's not being paid for his efforts. Makes me wonder if he's doing this solely on his own dime and time. Either way he'll have some more ears to talk to.

Is this guy's efforts just a waste of his own time or does he really believe LRT is realistic here when many here have already made strong points against LRT. Either way I guess it won't hurt to keep pushing LRT... at least until someone realizes roads and I-540 need to be expanded. What NWA needs more than anything is larger interchanges with I-540. The southbound turn lane at 540/102 is ridiculous... I'd say during normal hours a hundred cars are trying to turn there and the turn lane only fits 5 cars at most. It's a major bottleneck that will continue to get worse.

[Mith242]

It is interesting to hear he's still pushing it. I guess he really believes in it. It may not be very realistic but I still applaud anyone who will look into alternatives. I guess I like the idea that people are thinking about these things even if it's not likely this will ever happen.

[Mith242]

A bit off topic but I'm going to keep an eye open for more news and see how this could possibly compare to NWA. This fall Albuquerque will be starting up it's Rail Runner Express. It looks like it's going to cover more miles than the proposed light rail here in NWA. It will have 9 stops around the Albuquerque area and they are wanting to expand it northward and have it eventually go to Santa Fe. Perhaps a comparable distance would be Ft Smith. Of course there are different circumstances, the Albuquerque metro is twice the size of NWA's. But one interesting similarity is that Albuquerque is not too built up and is spread out like a lot of western cities. But it does have one main city. The Albuquerque metro makes up at least a third of New Mexico's population. Even more than Little Rock's even before the big boom here in NWA. Even if it does well out there in an area where vehicles are pretty much needed like here, it doesn't mean that NWA will ever get a service like it. But I thought it was interesting and thought I'd mention it. For anyone wanting to see more info, here's a link to the website.

http://www.nmrailrunner.com/index.asp

[DickSonstreetDFW]

A bit off topic but I'm going to keep an eye open for more news and see how this could possibly compare to NWA. This fall Albuquerque will be starting up it's Rail Runner Express. It looks like it's going to cover more miles than the proposed light rail here in NWA. It will have 9 stops around the Albuquerque area and they are wanting to expand it northward and have it eventually go to Santa Fe. Perhaps a comparable distance would be Ft Smith. Of course there are different circumstances, the Albuquerque metro is twice the size of NWA's. But one interesting similarity is that Albuquerque is not too built up and is spread out like a lot of western cities. But it does have one main city. The Albuquerque metro makes up at least a third of New Mexico's population. Even more than Little Rock's even before the big boom here in NWA. Even if it does well out there in an area where vehicles are pretty much needed like here, it doesn't mean that NWA will ever get a service like it. But I thought it was interesting and thought I'd mention it. For anyone wanting to see more info, here's a link to the website.

http://www.nmrailrunner.com/index.asp

I can see this getting a lot of use just from people who fly into ABQ on their way to Santa Fe. I wonder if its a collaborative effort between the two cities.

[Mith242]

I can see this getting a lot of use just from people who fly into ABQ on their way to Santa Fe. I wonder if its a collaborative effort between the two cities.

Yeah if or when they do expand it to Santa Fe it will be used. There's a lot of tourist, including foreign tourist who go to that part of the country. Santa Fe isn't too big and doesn't have much of an airport or anything. Most people fly into Albuquerque and then rent a car or something. But for now it's just going to be used around the Albuquerque metro. I'm wondering how it's going to do out there. In some ways it's a typical western city that seems more governed by vehicles and is very spread out. But I've wondered if maybe the Native American population there might make particular use of it. This obviously doesn't apply to all Native Americans but there are many who try to live a rustic lifestyle. Not having to own a vehicle might be interesting to those who prefer to live this lifestyle.

[thewizard16]

A bit off topic but I'm going to keep an eye open for more news and see how this could possibly compare to NWA. This fall Albuquerque will be starting up it's Rail Runner Express. It looks like it's going to cover more miles than the proposed light rail here in NWA. It will have 9 stops around the Albuquerque area and they are wanting to expand it northward and have it eventually go to Santa Fe. Perhaps a comparable distance would be Ft Smith. Of course there are different circumstances, the Albuquerque metro is twice the size of NWA's. But one interesting similarity is that Albuquerque is not too built up and is spread out like a lot of western cities. But it does have one main city. The Albuquerque metro makes up at least a third of New Mexico's population. Even more than Little Rock's even before the big boom here in NWA. Even if it does well out there in an area where vehicles are pretty much needed like here, it doesn't mean that NWA will ever get a service like it. But I thought it was interesting and thought I'd mention it. For anyone wanting to see more info, here's a link to the website.

http://www.nmrailrunner.com/index.asp

Interesting. I think Light Rail is a good idea, but the cost of starting up a system often makes it hard to realize. In the long run, I think NWA could definitely benefit from it, every city I've been to that has had a rail option, I've used rather than driven (for pure convenience) and I think that it could be a benefit to residents as well as tourists/visitors here as well. That said, I don't think we would benefit a lot from it right now, but considering how long it would take to get a system set up and going, by the time they finished it, we'd probably be needing/wanting it.

[Mith242]

Interesting. I think Light Rail is a good idea, but the cost of starting up a system often makes it hard to realize. In the long run, I think NWA could definitely benefit from it, every city I've been to that has had a rail option, I've used rather than driven (for pure convenience) and I think that it could be a benefit to residents as well as tourists/visitors here as well. That said, I don't think we would benefit a lot from it right now, but considering how long it would take to get a system set up and going, by the time they finished it, we'd probably be needing/wanting it.

I think that's probably the best way to look at it. I can see people's arguments against it. It's a good idea on paper but that doesn't always work in real life. A lot of people could think of it as a good idea but then never use it. Or maybe people are simply hoping others will use it so there are fewer people on the roads when they're out driving on them. But I still think it's something to consider and look into. It's hard to say how the area will continue to grow. That and when you take other factors like gas prices people might view public transportation differently in the future.

[Mith242]

A bit offtopic here, but ORT will be offering free rides to anyone under 18 all summer.

[masons_dad1]

A bit offtopic here, but ORT will be offering free rides to anyone under 18 all summer.

That's pretty interesting seeing how there's very little for teens to do here unless they have a car.

[mcheiss]

Hopefully when the Malls open up here, ORT ridership will boost.

[masons_dad1]

Any idea what the numbers are for ORT ridership?

[mcheiss]

I know Fayetteville's for the previous year was 28,850, Springdale's was 19,954, and that Bentonville has had a 31% increase in the past 2 years, along with Rogers around 45%.

[Mith242]

In some more ORT news, looks like starting in August they are going to test out some new routes out southwest of Fayetteville to Farmington, Prarie Grove and Lincoln.

[masons_dad1]

In some more ORT news, looks like starting in August they are going to test out some new routes out southwest of Fayetteville to Farmington, Prarie Grove and Lincoln.

ORT has a long way to go to become a regional transit authority. They need to start expanding their operations in the inner city areas with hourly routes and more widespread bus stop locations. I'm not about to take a chance riding a bus that only makes 2 trips to Fayetteville each day. If I was to miss my bus home then I'd have to take a cab. In other words ORT needs to spend a lot of money to make it a real mass transit. They seem to be just testing the water and that's not the way to go about it. If people realize that it's a real mass transit and is CONVENIENT to everyone then it'll be successful. I'm not going to ride a test bus and I doubt many will.

[mcheiss]

ORT has a long way to go to become a regional transit authority. They need to start expanding their operations in the inner city areas with hourly routes and more widespread bus stop locations.

Yes, I agree. ORT needs to make more routes throught the area, including along corridors such as I-540 and 71-B since they are straight line paths and make good for Bus Lines. ORT needs to create covered benches and such as well throughout the metros so people actually know there is a bus system here, instead of the stupid 5 inch wide sign on the side of the road. Billboards and other advertisements need to happen as well.

I think another thing that limits ORT is the fact that Razorback Transit operates in Fayetteville. Funding is split between the two transit systems and therefore creates less money to be spent on these programs. Officials need to merge the two systems so funding can be centralized.

[Mith242]

I think I have to also agree with you guys. I'd also prefer them do more inside the metros to make the routes more user friendly. I admit I wouldn't be happy to see Razorback go since I do think it does a very good job here in Fayetteville. But I do think things would be better if there was one system and not two in the metro.

[itk]

What you all should say is that the cities should fork over more cash to help expand ORT. I don't think more federal funding for ORT is in the cards for the near future, to my understanding-- maybe that could change after the next transportation bill in several years. Also, I don't think Razorback and ORT will be combining any time soon either, as the UA helps fund Razorback, and isn't willing to fund ORT since it wouldn't really benefit them.

The problems facing ORT is classic Catch-22 facing transit operations all over the US-- they need more funds to get more ridership, but they need more ridership to get more funds.

[mcheiss]

The problems facing ORT is classic Catch-22 facing transit operations all over the US-- they need more funds to get more ridership, but they need more ridership to get more funds.

Ridership won't get any better unless people actually know about Bus Transportation.

Let's face it, Church Buses and 5" inch signs aren't going to create a mass usage for Bus Transportation. If the area had actual City Buses with actual covered bus stops, people would see that Bus Transportation is in the area and ridership would increase.

[Aporkalypse]

Ridership won't get any better unless people actually know about Bus Transportation.

Let's face it, Church Buses and 5" inch signs aren't going to create a mass usage for Bus Transportation. If the area had actual City Buses with actual covered bus stops, people would see that Bus Transportation is in the area and ridership would increase.

I agree. I also think you're right about combining Razorback Transit and ORT.

[masons_dad1]

The cities need to know you gotta spend it to make it. A half-baked bus system won't fly and there aren't enough funds for a full-blown bus system. The cities will need to take a loss or look at a privatized bus system like Springfield has. Why doesn't SWEPCO fund the bus system and reap all the profits?

[Aporkalypse]

The cities need to know you gotta spend it to make it. A half-baked bus system won't fly and there aren't enough funds for a full-blown bus system. The cities will need to take a loss or look at a privatized bus system like Springfield has. Why doesn't SWEPCO fund the bus system and reap all the profits?

Public transport is rarely profitable. Even larger metros pour tax money into it. For fares to make the system profitable they would have to be unreasonably high.

[Mith242]

There was an article in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette about ORT possibly opening up express routes. But to do it they'll need to know that riders will be there. They mentioned they won't have any federal money to pay for something like this, just the riders money to keep these routes going. They mentioned that the express routes wouldn't make many stops so that they couild try to get people to some areas relatively fast. They also mentioned a Freedom Pass, which would allow you unlimited rides on a monthly basis.

[Aporkalypse]

There was an article in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette about ORT possibly opening up express routes. But to do it they'll need to know that riders will be there. They mentioned they won't have any federal money to pay for something like this, just the riders money to keep these routes going. They mentioned that the express routes wouldn't make many stops so that they couild try to get people to some areas relatively fast. They also mentioned a Freedom Pass, which would allow you unlimited rides on a monthly basis.

I think to make bus transit work in NWA you will have to have express routes between the cities. Theres' too much distance involved not to.

[mcheiss]

There was an article in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette about ORT possibly opening up express routes. But to do it they'll need to know that riders will be there. They mentioned they won't have any federal money to pay for something like this, just the riders money to keep these routes going. They mentioned that the express routes wouldn't make many stops so that they couild try to get people to some areas relatively fast. They also mentioned a Freedom Pass, which would allow you unlimited rides on a monthly basis.

I thought the article said it was coming, at least that's what The Morning News said.

They even showed a photo of the buses they want to use, actual city buses.