New Saks Fifth Avenue in former Montaldo's?

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

The likelihood of Belk getting Parisian is slim. They only want some of the stores. Saks has long held that they want the entire chain sold to one party not break it into pieces. George Jones (former CEO) and Spigoli Group are also interested, but want to buy the entire Parisian's chain. If it comes down to it, Spigoli Group will win over Belk. Saks is asking more than I think Belk would pay. Saks wants like one or to billion for the chain. I can't remember exactly, but it's some hugely insane sum that only an investment group would think is fair. If Saks does decide to sell Parisian's by the piece, I don't think they'll get some of the prime spots like Phipps Plaza. It would be a bad move anyway since Belk doesn't have as favorable a reputation as Parisian in Atlanta.

Mallguy, Saks needs to cash infusion to keep the dept. stores going. They're throwing a great deal of money at the Saks chain to keep it off the auction block and increase sales and profitability.

The bid for L&T is from another financial firm who want to team with developers.

[kelerbela]

Century 21 might do well in this space. It's a discount department store with a few locations in NYC. Finding a pair of last season Prada shoes for less than half-price is a good draw to get people to come to CC instead of SP.

www.c21stores.com

[DigitalSky]

People could confuse that with the realtors

[StevenRocks]

McRae's and Proffitt's aren't going to see the light of day again as divisions of Belk. Conceptually, they were too similar to Belk to continue, and really, Saks had gutted them down to the same store with different nameplates long before they sold it anyway.

Also, belk really doesn't revive nameplates. Anyone seen an Effrd's in the last fifty years?

Seriously, Belk really isn't a great fit for Parisian either. As I've said before, they're already a lot alike, and the stores Belk wants they can get for cheaper from an investment group breaking the chain apart rather than digesting it whole.

A smart investor would purchase and Parisian in tandem and gut Parisian, taking the best stores and rebranding them as L&T. That's the best hope that either store has for survaival.

Another option is for Saks to buy L&T and convert stores to the appropriate nameplate for success. The two beands together would be a force in luxury reatiling, and I'm convinced they're at least considering this with the pending Parisian sale.

They could make the money to buy L&T from selling Parisian, though getting two billion for it is a little far-fetched. I'd say it'll go for a little less than a billion, with saks retaining the rights to a handful of Parisian's most popular stores.

Anyway, this is all speculation and not even my best work, so I'll close.

[mallguy]

I think Belk was a much better fit for Proffitt's and McRae's than it would be for Parisian. I think Belk is generally slightly higher-end than those two chains, but not by much (except in larger stores in larger markets such as the SouthPark Belk, which is definitely an upscale store). Parisian is more upscale than Belk typically is and is much more upscale than Proffitt's and McRae's were. Look in Saks Inc.'s annual report and other corporate descriptions, and Parisian is marketed to investors as an upscale chain for large markets. I don't see Belk buying it; the two chains already overlap a lot, especially with Belk's purchase of Proffitt's and McRae's.

I hope that investment funds or something buy Parisian and Lord & Taylor. I really love both chains and would be ill to see either one of them disappear.

Parisian stores are usually at least 100,000 sf, although there is a small Parisian in downtown Birmingham. I don't know much about that store and why it's around, but a similar store would be great to have in uptown Charlotte.

[DigitalSky]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14369300.htm

Belk may be a bidder for Parisian.

[mallguy]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14369300.htm

Belk may be a bidder for Parisian.

gosh, no!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see Belk keeping other nameplates, which would mean farewell to Parisian, which is really a great store- moderately upscale, with sharp clothes.

Parisian would be a better fit with whoever buys Lord & Taylor, or maybe witih an investment fund or something.

And if Belk buys Parisian, lots of Southern malls would lose anchors or would have duplicate ones.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14369300.htm

Belk may be a bidder for Parisian.

Yeah, they only want a few of the stores. I think there are 39 stores in the chain and Saks wants to sell the entire chain. There's one other group looking to buy the entire chain. Rumor has it they're the lead bid because they want the entire thing and they offered more money than Belk is even worth (YIKES).

On a side note: It's kind of sad that Saks is licensing its name.

[f0xym0p]

Century 21 might do well in this space. It's a discount department store with a few locations in NYC. Finding a pair of last season Prada shoes for less than half-price is a good draw to get people to come to CC instead of SP.

www.c21stores.com

I would LOVE it if we got a Century 21 here! I agree though that it would be confusing having a real estate co. with the same name--when I first moved to NYC and I saw Century 21 bags I couldn't figure out why they would have bags with a real estate co. on them

Also they are only in the NYC area and I doubt they would open a store here unfortunately.

[mallguy]

I would LOVE it if we got a Century 21 here! I agree though that it would be confusing having a real estate co. with the same name--when I first moved to NYC and I saw Century 21 bags I couldn't figure out why they would have bags with a real estate co. on them

Also they are only in the NYC area and I doubt they would open a store here unfortunately.

I was at C21 on Saturday. Definitely a good store with a lot of good bargains- but so crowded!

You can get the same feeling at the Eastland Mall Dillard's, but just imagine a lot more people there.

[StevenRocks]

gosh, no!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see Belk keeping other nameplates, which would mean farewell to Parisian, which is really a great store- moderately upscale, with sharp clothes.

Parisian would be a better fit with whoever buys Lord & Taylor, or maybe witih an investment fund or something.

And if Belk buys Parisian, lots of Southern malls would lose anchors or would have duplicate ones.

If Belk buys Parisian, there will be no more Parisian. I was saying that earlier. I personally think they'll pick up a few stores from whoever buys Parisian, but I doubt they'll get the whole chain.

Yeah, they only want a few of the stores. I think there are 39 stores in the chain and Saks wants to sell the entire chain. There's one other group looking to buy the entire chain. Rumor has it they're the lead bid because they want the entire thing and they offered more money than Belk is even worth (YIKES).

On a side note: It's kind of sad that Saks is licensing its name.

The group with the most capital will get Parisian. Brad Martin needs the money to save Saks.

Doesn't Saks license its name in the middle East?

[mallguy]

I dislike Saks, since they ran my Parisian (Greenville Mall, Greenville, SC) into the ground and are partially responsibile for killing that mall and now are possibly ending the chain's existence. Now where can I shop, since L&T is apparently going under as well?

Now this would mean a Belk's at Phipps Plaza, I take it, to replace the Parisian there?

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

If Belk buys Parisian, there will be no more Parisian. I was saying that earlier. I personally think they'll pick up a few stores from whoever buys Parisian, but I doubt they'll get the whole chain.

The group with the most capital will get Parisian. Brad Martin needs the money to save Saks.

Doesn't Saks license its name in the middle East?

Steven, that was my subtle way of saying there's a near billion dollar offer on the table. Hence, the YIKES. The group that made the offer already bought another dept. store chain. That's apparently their focus: Buy chain dept. stores and prove the stores have worth under the right management. Only time will tell if they're correct.

I can't remember how Saks opened in the ME. Okay, I looked it up. You're right. It's still kind of sad. Anyway, this is the 3rd time I've said all this. I try not be boring AND redundant.

[mallguy]

So it's the same group that bought Neiman Marcus, I take it? That would probably be better for Parisian than being run by Saks' management.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

So it's the same group that bought Neiman Marcus, I take it? That would probably be better for Parisian than being run by Saks' management.

No, it's George Jones (former head of Saks) and Freeman Spogli (a financial investment firm).

[Lady Celeste]

Now this would mean a Belk's at Phipps Plaza, I take it, to replace the Parisian there?

Oh my word!

It was bad enough that Parisian slid through the cracks and landed there. Oddly enough, the Parisian at Phipps is a great deal more upscale than surrounding same brand stores. That of course lessens the shock. If Belk was to buy Parisian and there was talk about the Phipps Plaza store, I would much rather they (Belk) sell the space to Barney's and be done with it.

I can however see why such a store would be advantageous for any brand given the number of tourist "shoppers" that frequent both Lenox Mall and Phipps Plaza.

[mallguy]

A SouthPark-type Belk would be OK at Phipps. It's on par with Parisian and Phipps Plaza's former Lord & Taylor.

But geez, if one like the one in Rock Hill, SC ends up there!

[DigitalSky]

If anything it would be a SouthPark-type Belk. I mean this is the retail destination of the southeast.

[mallguy]

Coming from a small city that FINALLY got a Parisian in the '90s, I always really liked that store. Now that I have shopped at places like Bergdorf Goodman, Parisian doesn't seem as chi-chi as it did when I first walked into the store, but still, for the cities that Parisian is in (other than Atlanta, etc.), it's the nicest store in town, and still pretty comparable to a Lord & Taylor. Thus I hope the chain survives, at least to give retail hope to the big-city wannabees in smaller cities and who would otherwise have to shop at bland, mid-market stores.

[StevenRocks]

Steven, that was my subtle way of saying there's a near billion dollar offer on the table. Hence, the YIKES. The group that made the offer already bought another dept. store chain. That's apparently their focus: Buy chain dept. stores and prove the stores have worth under the right management. Only time will tell if they're correct.

....No, it's George Jones (former head of Saks) and Freeman Spogli (a financial investment firm).

Okay, they got a shot at survival then, and that eliminates Belk from the mix almost entirely. George Jones knows Parisian inside out, and Freeman Spogli won't dismantle the chain unless it's absolutely necessary. There may be sme store closures, but it will be closer to business as usual than if Belk bought it.

Oh my word!

It was bad enough that Parisian slid through the cracks and landed there. Oddly enough, the Parisian at Phipps is a great deal more upscale than surrounding same brand stores. That of course lessens the shock. If Belk was to buy Parisian and there was talk about the Phipps Plaza store, I would much rather they (Belk) sell the space to Barney's and be done with it.

I can however see why such a store would be advantageous for any brand given the number of tourist "shoppers" that frequent both Lenox Mall and Phipps Plaza.

Parisian ain't giving up that store unless the whole chain falls! I think Phipps is safe.

[kayman]

I think Belk was a much better fit for Proffitt's and McRae's than it would be for Parisian. I think Belk is generally slightly higher-end than those two chains, but not by much (except in larger stores in larger markets such as the SouthPark Belk, which is definitely an upscale store). Parisian is more upscale than Belk typically is and is much more upscale than Proffitt's and McRae's were. Look in Saks Inc.'s annual report and other corporate descriptions, and Parisian is marketed to investors as an upscale chain for large markets. I don't see Belk buying it; the two chains already overlap a lot, especially with Belk's purchase of Proffitt's and McRae's.

I hope that investment funds or something buy Parisian and Lord & Taylor. I really love both chains and would be ill to see either one of them disappear.

Parisian stores are usually at least 100,000 sf, although there is a small Parisian in downtown Birmingham. I don't know much about that store and why it's around, but a similar store would be great to have in uptown Charlotte.

The reasoning behind the maintanance of the downtown Birmingham location has a lot to do with the revitalization of the city center. The City Center has nearly 10k in population with the revitalization of building and the construction of lofts and condos. Its core customer base is daytime workers (some 50k daytime pop.) and upper income downtown residences. It is doubtful that location will close now.

[NCMike1981]

I would think that whatever cities out there that have managed to hang on to some of their downtown department stores are lucky, and now that downtowns are becoming "in" again maybe they have weathered the storms and are about to start making some decent profits.....Too bad the '70's through the '90's killed off department stores in most downtowns across America....Although I think alot of the larger well known cities still have a few hanging on...

[mallguy]

I would think that whatever cities out there that have managed to hang on to some of their downtown department stores are lucky, and now that downtowns are becoming "in" again maybe they have weathered the storms and are about to start making some decent profits.....Too bad the '70's through the '90's killed off department stores in most downtowns across America....Although I think alot of the larger well known cities still have a few hanging on...

Agreed- and when I walk by the Ivey's building in uptown Charlotte, I think that the store should have just hung on for a few years and it could then do OK- not great, probably, but better than in the late '80s before it closed.

Also just curious about people's thoughts about why department stores haven't moved back into downtown areas. Definitely more growth is still in the suburbs, but with resurgent downtowns, I'd think that a small (20,000sf or maybe more?) department store with "the basics" could do OK in a lot of places like Charlotte (sorry, Belk Express is just a convenience store-sized thing with makeup; you can't get clothes there, really), Raleigh, etc.

How big is that downtown Parisian in Birmingham? That seems like a good model for a lot of other cities.

[A2]

Agreed- and when I walk by the Ivey's building in uptown Charlotte, I think that the store should have just hung on for a few years and it could then do OK- not great, probably, but better than in the late '80s before it closed.

How big is that downtown Parisian in Birmingham? That seems like a good model for a lot of other cities.

Small. It is in the Harbert Plaza. It is a nice store, but much like the boutique's in Charlotte's Overstreet mall it is hidden away from street activty.

For what it is worth I still think Parisian's is a bit more upscale than Belk's. I hope I do not step on any toes with that comment.

A2

[DigitalSky]

Agreed- and when I walk by the Ivey's building in uptown Charlotte, I think that the store should have just hung on for a few years and it could then do OK- not great, probably, but better than in the late '80s before it closed.

Ivey's may have stuck around a few more years --- if it weren't for the Dillard's buyout