Should NC build I-30

[dubone]

the more i think of it, the more i think that if this EVER happens, i hope they don't use the Garden Parkway and southern 485 routing. It seems like Independence deserves to be a full-fledged interstate, even if it takes another 30 years to complete it.

30 would basically be this routing:

- (whatever west of asheville, either i40 all the way to memphis, or some more southern routing through Chattanooga and Huntsville)

- i26 past Hendersonville

- us 74 past shelby (requiring an upgrade and a bypass of shelby)

- i85 past gastonia

- Brookshire Freeway from 85 to Independence (requiring an interchange with 85 and an upgrade of brookshire from expressway to freeway between beatties ford and 85)

- Independence Freeway from 277 to 485 (requiring an upgrades from Briar Creek to 485)

- Monroe Bypass Connector (new toll project planned)

- Monroe Bypass

- us 74 past wadesboro and all the way to Wilmingon (requiring upgrades in Anson, Scotland, Robeson, and Columbus Counties).

Then the routing around wilmington could be one of the following from the area's vision plan http://www.ncdot.org/planning/tpb/SHC/PDF/...heastern_NC.pdf :

- All the way into to downtown Wilmington, as is planned for the i20 corridor

- Take the southern portion of 140 and go all the way through the new Cape Fear Skyway

or (i think this one would be cool)

- take the northern portion of 140 past wilmington

- then follow the us17 upgrade (which is to be a freeway in the the state's transport plan) from north of wilmington to jacksonville or new bern

Again, i'm not advocating any new freeways than are already planned in the TIP or the statewide vision, just coordinating existing plans around a contiguous corridor.

[Sabaidee]

That's alot of multiplexing, it will be expensive if it routed on Independence, it will need alot of buffer beyond the farthest right lane.

[dubone]

once the interchanges are in, i think it is just politics on limiting the access. I can't imagine it would be a huge expense, unless they must do serious mitigation. It seems like if they had the eventual goal to make a limited access freeway, that they could slowly eliminate driveways over the next 30 years and end up getting where they need to be.

Really, i think the only way to conquer independence in any rational way is to either make it part of the toll plans for 74 east of 485 (monroe connector) or eventually make it as its own toll project in the next group of NC Turnpike Authority projects.

I agree on the multiplexing, but the idea is to create the corridor almost entirely with upgrade projects that are already on the books/waitinglist, and some stretches taking advantage of existing interstates or freeways.

[Sabaidee]

Independence will be rebuilt all over again regardless of the construction now. Whether it's a busway or light rail, CATS still need more ROW beyond Briar Creek.

[monsoon]

They have reported the Garden Parkway is dead (if this is the one from Gastonia to CLT) The 1/2 Billion pricetag is just too high.

[Jerseyman4]

i would like to see I-30 go right through the heart of charlotte using independance but that would be very costly. Independance Blvd should be a jersey freeway in my opinion at least to I-485 from Albemarle Road (to when the ind. freeway ends). It would be logical to route it along I-485 on the southern portion between I-85 by the airport to US 74 by the Union County line to where it would connect the proposed Monroe bypass. upgrade the existening 485 from 4 to 8 lanes with C/D lanes at interchanges.

[cosmoboy]

They have reported the Garden Parkway is dead (if this is the one from Gastonia to CLT) The 1/2 Billion pricetag is just too high.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess what killed it might've been that expensive bridge they were planning over the Catawba River.

[dubone]

what is your source? i don't see any news on that, even on ncdot's official garden parkway website. The $500m pricetag has been known for a while.

[cosmoboy]

yeah monsoon what is it?

[flith]

Seems there is a proposal in the works to build part of I-30 in North Carolina that would connect Asheville <-> Charlotte <-> Wilmington.    I would say it is about time that something is built in the state that doesn't go through Raleigh but I would rather see the funding going towards a train line instead of building another interstate. 

What do you think.

More info here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in the military and live in Pinehurst, NC and am stationed at Ft. Bragg. I am from Chattanooga, TN. Since I've been in Pinehurst I visited Charlotte and Wilmington on a regular basis and have often complained that there isn't a better connection between the two cities. US 74 works for the most part except for all the *&&#$%# traffic lights east of Charlotte that are not synchronized, and the part of US 74 at I-95 that is two lanes still.

I'd love for there to be a connection direct to Chattanooga TN/Huntsville, AL from Wilmington, NC. I hate driving all the way down to Atlanta to go home or all the way up to Knoxville, TN. I never realized how Chattanooga is kind of isolated from NC because of the lack of a godd due east connection. I read a long time ago that an interstated was on the books from Mempis to Wilmington via Huntsville/Chattanooga/Charlotte. I know that AL and MS are upgrading parts of US 72 to interstate "quaility" roads. It also seems that NC is working on some of the route too.

[monsoon]

It is a long and terrible drive from Charlotte to Wilmington. 74 is basically impassable once you reach Union county. And while the state continues to pave pig paths in the middle of no-where, not much is done to fix this situation.

I also agree about the Chattanooga situation. I can only guess is it is the mountains and national forests that prevent better connections.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12261803.htm

the transportation bill just put some money toward the Monroe Bypass, the Garden Parkway, Shelby Bypass, and some sections of the I74 corridor (a section of the Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington i30/us74 corridor is also in the i74 corridor).

[skysdalimit]

Yes, definitely, we need I-30 running through Charlotte. It can run on 85/277/Independence.

[orulz]

I think I-30 on 277/Independence is a BAD idea. Read this post in the "Freeways, Traffic, Air Pollution, Construction" thread from the Charlotte board for my explanation.

[cosmoboy]

I think I-30 on 277/Independence is a BAD idea. Read this post in the "Freeways, Traffic, Air Pollution, Construction" thread from the Charlotte board for my explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's a good idea, because if you route I-30 to the south on I-485 then you will be encouraging sprawl with new restaurants, hotels, and convenience stores. If I-30 were to go on Independence and Brookshire then think of all the possibilities! You could see Eastland get livelier again, more hotel occupancy in UT, and more tourists coming in to the city because of better access. But I will admit that I-30 through Charlotte will have it's negative effects. Like dividing the city in half, eating up more land, closing down businesses to acomodate the bigger road, and worse air quality. Also you would have to upgrade ALOT of interchanges but you could also eliminate some that were not necessary. If I-30 were to go through Charlotte then I-277 would probably look like I-75/I-85 in Atlanta. Another big problem is right as it leaves I-277 where does it go? I have included a map to show where I think it should go if it were to go on one route or the other.

or

[orulz]

I think it's a good idea, because if you route I-30 to the south on I-485 then you will be encouraging sprawl with new restaurants, hotels, and convenience stores. If I-30 were to go on Independence and Brookshire then think of all the possibilities!

Do you really think that the average through traveller will want to stop off for the night at the Westin uptown, or drop by Eastland Mall for a bite to eat? I know that I wouldn't even consider it. I'd go for the cheapest chain hotel or restaurant I could find, in the outskirts of the city with easy on-off interstate access and plentiful parking. On a road trip, most people never even consider staying somwhere nice. It's just a matter of whether these hotels end up in the sprawl along I-485 or along the hypothetical I-30 somewhere between Charlotte and Monroe or Charlotte and Gastonia.

[cosmoboy]

Do you really think that the average through traveller will want to stop off for the night at the Westin uptown, or drop by Eastland Mall for a bite to eat? I know that I wouldn't even consider it. I'd go for the cheapest chain hotel or restaurant I could find, in the outskirts of the city with easy on-off interstate access and plentiful parking. On a road trip, most people never even consider staying somwhere nice. It's just a matter of whether these hotels end up in the sprawl along I-485 or along the hypothetical I-30 somewhere between Charlotte and Monroe or Charlotte and Gastonia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well think about, there;s always going to be those oldies or baby-boomers who decide to take their family on a vacation and they stop in charlotte for one night and they think they're to good to stay at a Best Western or Quality Inn. Plus you're going to have these little daddy's girls who are going to take a "roadtrip" and when they see an Eastland Mall billboard they will be all happy and say, " let's go shopping!" there will always be those type of people and situations, no matter what!

[MZT]

I'm not buying it.

I think people on road trips do exactly what orulz said. They just try to "get through" the major cities-- and if they stop overnight, it's somewhere on the outskirts where they think it'll be cheaper and quick to get back on the highway. They are trying to GET somewhere, (probably the beach or the mountains) and are definaly not pulling over to check out a mall in the middle of their trip, for a few hours.

(I know my own family always tried to plan our road trips, so that we could avoid rush hour and spend as little time driving in Atlanta or Jacksonville as possible.)

[orulz]

Well, after having been cited for what I said, I have to admit that there MAY be different types of road trips out there, but I haven't experienced them. Every road trip that I've done up to this point in my life has been either (1) a family trip, where efficiency is key so the parents have to spend as little time couped up in a car with us cranky kids, (2) college road trips, where "cheap" is the prime directive, stops at KOA are common, and food comes from the grocery store in the form of Wonder Bread, Jif, Smucker's, and a bag of baby carrots, or (3) a business trip, where speed is key and time is very limited.

Some well-to-do singles, couples, or retirees may very well have the time to go exploring and sightseeing along the way to their final destination. But I do have a hard time believing that it's a significant percentage of all road trippers.

Our hypothetical I-30 will NOT go so far as to turn Charlotte into a tourist destination where people have to go every time they're driving through or in the vicinity.

[cosmoboy]

Well, after having been cited for what I said, I have to admit that there MAY be different types of road trips out there, but I haven't experienced them. Every road trip that I've done up to this point in my life has been either (1) a family trip, where efficiency is key so the parents have to spend as little time couped up in a car with us cranky kids, (2) college road trips, where "cheap" is the prime directive, stops at KOA are common, and food comes from the grocery store in the form of Wonder Bread, Jif, Smucker's, and a bag of baby carrots, or (3) a business trip, where speed is key and time is very limited.

Some well-to-do singles, couples, or retirees may very well have the time to go exploring and sightseeing along the way to their final destination. But I do have a hard time believing that it's a significant percentage of all road trippers.

Our hypothetical I-30 will NOT go so far as to turn Charlotte into a tourist destination where people have to go every time they're driving through or in the vicinity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that I think about it, your right! People do want budget rooms and cheap food. I remember taking my first road trip to LA last year with some of my friends and our hotel was always a truck-stop parking lot and food was "bring your own." I just can't seem to get off the topic of I-30 being routed to the south, I mean think of all the cars being by-passed to the south but instead they could go through town and there would probably be a little improvement in hotel occupancy and in the local economy. I see your point about how families would rather stop at Days Inn then a swanky Westin or Marriott. One idea I thought of is tolling the US 74 portion from I-485 to I-277. Chances are this road won't even surface. It'll just be a topic that DOT uses as propaganda.

[Sabaidee]

^ NC laws state that for tolls to exist, it must be a new build project and it must parrallel to an existing main freeway. Tolls are suppose to provide options.

[dubone]

i actually wrote the nc turnpike authority in support of combining the monroe bypass with some portion of independence upgrade.

I basically got back a response that roughly said toll project ideas must come from local politicians, and she forwarded my email to the head of the local ncdot division.

i don't think it would be too practical to toll all the way up to 277, but it seems pretty reasonable to do the section south of, say, harris. I didn't know about the 'new starts' requirement, but i did figure it was a long shot that they'd consider doing it.

They key element in my mind that might lead to expansion of the toll corridor is based on the observer article recently: that they are finding that tolls won't be enough to fund the original project boundaries, so by expanding the toll area to include nearby corridors that would have been funded traditionally, the numbers come closer to working out. I think that if they could extend the toll area to be inside 485 to some distance, they would have much higher chances of increasing toll revenues.

that said, the rules are the rules, and they likely won't grant exceptions unless all the toll projects hit similar challenges. (a serious possibility)

[Sabaidee]

Some legislators and local officials want the Monroe Bypass to be apart of the Monroe Connector Tollway to further speed up the construction.

[NcSc74]

I voted no. No time soon or near future. As you can see from the different threads I don't want NCDOT screwing this up to. I do realize the need for interstate status from 277 to hwy74 inside the belt. I think traffic counts justify that. However I am gun shy when it comes to NCDOT planning and routing interstates. Nevermind the cost of building in a mountainous environ. I just don't like our DOT getting it right at this time. Case in point I-73/74. I still don't know the reason or cause for these interstates. If one of them terminated in Wilmington(not just outside or 20 miles away) I would not have a problem with them. I say scrap one of them to make I-30 possible but not a jumbled mess of new interstaes that undulate across the state map with no rhyme or reason.

[RiverwoodCLT]

We need I30 from Charlotte to Wilmington to help the ports in Wilmington and Charlotte. Keep the money here in NC, by using our own ports.

Use I485 around Charlotte, Independence would cost too much and kill the project from the go. Could us the new by-pass around southern Gaston county to I85S. US74 from I26. is like an interstae highway just this side of Forest City and from I85 to south of Shelby. With the bypass of Shelby that would join up with Forest City it would be near instate code. form I85 to I26.

Bypass around Monroe Area > Wadesboro > Rockingham >Hamlet >o Launinburg.

They are now working on the last 2 lane section in Robeson county to I95.

East of I95 to east of Bolton NC about 8 or 9 intersections would need be upgraded. From Bolton to Leland, NC new roadway.

So I30 from Wilmington would not be like builing a complet new road.

From Rockingham down to Wilmington, it could use I73-I74 part of the way.