Should NC build I-30

[QueenCityBobcats]

I'd rather see a high-speed (bullet train) built between Asheville and Wilmington via RDU Airport...

this was mentioned earlier...

however the Asheville to Wilmington via Raleigh isn't a concern. Raleigh or greensboro for that matter doesn't need anymore projects over charlotte. Raleigh Will get a 2nd belt about the same time Charlotte's first is finished. And Greensboro has as many proposed highways through it as Charlotte has total. Charlotte is larger than Greensboro and Raleigh combined! The NCDOT and NC state congress hates the State of Meck. Lets secede and join SC! The SCDOT has done more for I77 widening sooner and better that NC has. i30 or its equivalent is needed more than both 73 and 74.

[95-Souf]

Charlotte does need more highway projects than it currently has going on now,..

By the way, ... are there any plans for a highway or interstate that would connect Charlotte with the coast. Its really difficult to traverse thru NC from Charlotte to cities along the coast presently.

[dubone]

Charlotte does need more highway projects than it currently has going on now,..

By the way, ... are there any plans for a highway or interstate that would connect Charlotte with the coast. Its really difficult to traverse thru NC from Charlotte to cities along the coast presently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

most of that route will be a freeway eventually. From 485 to Wadesboro, there are three separate projects that will likely be combined: The Monroe Connector Tollway, Monroe Bypass, and Wadesboro Bypass. They are all basically to create a us74 bypass freeway that will go around indian trail, monroe and wadesboro. As i said, as part of making the finances work for the tollway, they might merge them all together and make that whole section an toll project... so not technically "free"way, but you get the idea.

Between wadesboro and the current rockingham bypass, there is a project to eventually upgrade us74 to freeway.

Between rockingham and somewhere just west of wilmington, us74 will be upgraded eventually to full interstate standards as part of the i74 corridor.

This whole thread deals with the possibility that by coordinating all these us74 upgrades into a single combined corridor, it could easily become interstate 30. That, however, is not even before congress, so it is just conceptual at this point. The upgrades, however, are already on the docket for NCDOT, but most are 10-15 years away.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news...al/12819931.htm

the i-30 proposal is starting to gain some momentum. It will be requested for official study.

i think that there are so many aspects of this proposal that meet north carolina's strategic goals that this project will start to be picked up by politicians. Easley's plan for i20 will not likely happen (which as i said earlier in the thread, that is okay, because it wouldn't shave much off the route to wilmington from florence using 95 and us 74), so i can see them switching to this project, which they don't have to work with SC on.

i think north carolina desparately needs another east-west freeway through charlotte. And we aren't that far away. It just needs some coordination of existing projects and a few new projects.

"It would not involve Independence Boulevard"

i already know this is true... but it hurts.

[monsoon]

Agreed about I-20. Easley's plan won't happen because it will be a very cold day before SC agrees to build the part in SC. If I-20 were extended, it would go to Myrtle Beach.

[orulz]

I think the concept of I-30 in NC is a good idea for the eventual, complete build-out of the interstate highway system - but I don't think any segment in NC except Charlotte to Wilmington should be a priority in anybody's book.

I really hate the idea of an I-30/I-40 multiplex through the Pigeon River gorge at the NC/TN state line. That's a very twsity highway with frequent rock slides. It's already terror incarnate to drive it at night with all the trucks.

If I-40 through The Gorge got pushed over capacity and needed more lanes, we'd be S.O.L. - even if a six lane highway through terrain like that were physically possible, it would be an ecological nightmare and cost way too much. There would have to be new, wider tunnels and miles of hundred-foot tall retaining walls. Yup, any attempt to six-lane it would be engineering suicide.

Instead, they should get a "future I-30" designation on US74 from Waynesville through Murphy to Cleveland, TN. Much of that is already a slightly sub-interstate freeway; the rest of it is a 55mph four-lane median-divided expressway. The terrain is less rugged than I-40, there is already a (not very crowded) highway in place, and the ROW is already wide enough to fit a Jersey Barrier interstate - so it wouldn't tear things up too badly at all. If I-26 from Columbus to Asheville and I-40 from Asheville to Waynesville needs widening, then so be it - but for the love of God, don't do anything to put more traffic through the Gorge.

Link the Waynesville to Cleveland, TN segment with High Priority Corridor 7 from Memphis to Chattanooga via Huntsville, and you will have a complete I-30 without the 700 mile I-40 multiplex.

[dubone]

i agree. i kind of like the idea of going through Waynesville and Murphy to get to Cleveland, TN, and then Chattanooga and possible just replace the I24 label with an I30 between Chatt and Nasheville... or else somehow loop through Huntsville and follow that high-priority corridor that will eventually improve connectivity between Memphis and Huntsville (possibly along the US 72 corridor).

the most important part for the state of north carolina is from Asheville to Charlotte to Wilmington, though.

[kickazzz2000]

My question is why do the two 30's even have to be physically linked. If i recall correctly, there is I84 in New England and NYS, and then an I84 in like Idaho and Washington. (I may have the western states wrong, but somewhere wayyyy out west.) I think the same is true for an I 88 in NYS and somewhere out west.

Granted Texark is not as from from NC as NE and the NW, but still...I think its ridiculous to multiplex with 40 for SEVEN HUNDRED MILES!

[Jerseyman4]

My question is why do the two 30's even have to be physically linked. If i recall correctly, there is I84 in New England and NYS, and then an I84 in like Idaho and Washington. (I may have the western states wrong, but somewhere wayyyy out west.) I think the same is true for an I 88 in NYS and somewhere out west.

You could of been 100% accurate by just looking at a current Randy McNally Map or this to scroll around to be certain.

Granted Texark is not as from from NC as NE and the NW, but still...I think its ridiculous to multiplex with 40 for SEVEN HUNDRED MILES!

This is confusing to understand, could you tell us what you mean?

I dont see any problem with Interstates 80 and 90 multiplexing between the Cleveland and Chicago suburbs which is roughly 350 miles.

[Hotlanta]

You could of been 100% accurate by just looking at a current Randy McNally Map or this to scroll around to be certain.

This is confusing to understand, could you tell us what you mean?

I dont see any problem with Interstates 80 and 90 multiplexing between the Cleveland and Chicago suburbs which is roughly 350 miles.

But doesn't that just ruin the point of having an interstate system if one route follows another for almost 800 miles?

[Jerseyman4]

But doesn't that just ruin the point of having an interstate system if one route follows another for almost 800 miles?

I dont see a problem with long multiplexes but i dont like interstate breaks from the west coast to east coast with I-84 like kickazzz2000 said. Its important that the interstate highway numbers are kept in order even though 98% of the motoring public wouldnt give a rats a$$ about it. How do you think we have I-73, I-74 and I-3 (number wise) in the wrong geographical location?!

[kickazzz2000]

You could of been 100% accurate by just looking at a current Randy McNally Map or this to scroll around to be certain.

Thanks for that bit of info, I know how to look at a map. I was post call and way too tired to do anything other than finish my post and go to bed.

[JDC]

Trains, not highways, please.

[orulz]

Bringing this one up again,

This article in the Citizen-Times pointed out another aspect of our hypothetical cross-state "I-30" plan to me.

Seems the western part of what could become I-30 in NC already has a name, 'Corridor K.' This is the corridor between Asheville and Chattanooga. Construction on 'K' has been happening off and on since the 1960s. The plans call for a 4-lane highway, not necessarily a freeway, and much of it has already been built.

If at some point decades in the future, Corridor 'K' from Asheville to Chattanooga, and Corridor 7 from Chattanooga to Memphis via Huntsville, the whole thing could hypothetically recieve the designation of I-30. Throw in US74 through NC, and you have a corridor from Dallas to Wilmington, with a total of approximately 120 miles of multiplex with I-40.

Not that I think all this is necessary...

[Transplant]

Is I277 in Charlotte considered a 'beltway'? I assume that I485 is.

[Jerseyman4]

Is I277 in Charlotte considered a 'beltway'? I assume that I485 is.

I-277 to me is not a beltway because it does not form a complete loop. It begins and ends at I-77, forming 270 degrees. The NC 16 portion of the Brookshire Freeway is not part of I-277 northwest of uptown Charlotte past the I-77 juncture.

Once I-485 is completed, it is then a beltway.

[reverbandwhiskey]

Don't we have enough massive roads already?

[Jerseyman4]

Don't we have enough massive roads already?

The most important thing is that North Carolina's infrastructure is not widely dependant on its two lane highways.

[dubone]

Well, consider that the existing interstate freeway from Asheville (the gateway to the mountains and to Tennesee) and Wilmington is I40, is 385 miles. Taking US74 between Asheville and Wilmington is only 320 miles. 65 miles of additional distance is significant, especially if you consider the pollution and time wasted.

The existing massive road throughout the distance is only built to US highway standards, which allows for driveways and traffic signals. By upgrading it to an interstate, it becomes a much more efficient long distance route for all of those trucks and interstate car traffic.

An upgrade to an interstate would mainly to just fix the shoulders, close driveways, and add bridges to replace at grade interchanges. The effect, however, would be in reducing the amount of stop and go that the thousands of vehicles on the route must undergo.

[davidals]

some variation on a freeway, but not quite interstate standards.

They might have some at grade intersections or a few access points that aren't full interchanges. It also might be a full limited access freeway, but may not meet interstate standards with guardrails and such. Without ever intending a stretch of US highway to be an interstate, they might make a number of compromises on the engineering... or, as is the case for parts of the i73/74 corridor, they may be upgrading and widening a lot of it, but plan to go the rest of the way to interstate standards in the future. independence in charlotte is a freeway has some driveways along it, for example. also us 52 between lexington and winston is a freeway, and you'd swear it was an interstate, but they must do a number of upgrades to it to get it to pass interstate standards.

The idea is US74 is already slated for upgrade to a freeway, they just might not otherwise bring it all the way up to interstate standard. By coordinating it with a corridor like "Interstate 30" they might still make compromises that require future work, but they'll at least build it in a way that makes it cheaper to do the upgrades in the future, rather than assume it will never be upgraded to a full interstate.

Most freeways in NC aren't built to interstate standards - shorter ramps, narrower shoulders or a thinner layer of pavement for example. The DOT is designing these various freeway upgrades to US 74 at sub-interstate freeway standard, while lobbying for an interstate designation, which would require them to overhaul the highway again immediately after completion? The logic of our DOT is unbelievable...

Freeway upgrades to 74 have been talked about for 40 years; as traffic on 40 through the entire state had done nothing but escalate, I find it hard to fathom 74 not being rebuilt as an interstate decades ago. At the very least it would offer a relief route for 40, which can only be widened so much. Wilimington would get a 2nd interstate, Charlotte gets direct access to a port, and 2 tourist meccas (Asheville and Wilmington) get a direct, if long-distance (still shorter than Asheville-to-Wilmington via I-40) connection.

The current routing of I-73 and I-74, both of which will be completed when hell freezes over, looks as if it was routed by toddlers. Neither go very directly anywhere, and the weird sharp zig-zag on I-74 around the Green Swamp may well make portions of that project unbuildable; the proposed tangle of freeways in the Triad is geographical illiteracy raised to an art form. This inability to plan or route things in some sort of geographically sensible fashion would make me a bit more reluctant to support another new interstate project. Meanwhile, the only major city in NC that Charlotte directly links to (via interstate) is Greensboro; a Wilmington or Fayetteville (or Asheville) connector seemingly would've been a no-brainer decades ago, but there don't seem to be any actual brains involved...

Could be worse - some nitwit is proposing an I-3 (??? Shouldn't this be a West Coast number???) to link Savannah GA and Knoxville TN, via Augusta, Anderson SC and Graham Co NC. Seems like a joke...

[Jerseyman4]

^Well said

I think NCDOT likes to cuts corners when it comes to building freeways with short shoulders. What i mean by is that they know some highways are just intra-state highways so why meet federal standards? I think with the future itnerstates, at the end, tehy will add shoulders and do whatever else is needed to bring it up to interstate standards. Save money now but wouldnt it cost more at teh end to finish it up? How come the Fayetteville beltway (future I-295) has NO SHOULDERS over this one bridge??

[davidals]

^Well said

I think NCDOT likes to cuts corners when it comes to building freeways with short shoulders. What i mean by is that they know some highways are just intra-state highways so why meet federal standards? I think with the future itnerstates, at the end, tehy will add shoulders and do whatever else is needed to bring it up to interstate standards. Save money now but wouldnt it cost more at teh end to finish it up? How come the Fayetteville beltway (future I-295) has NO SHOULDERS over this one bridge??

It was decided to sign it as an interstate after it was designed and construction had already started; more improvisational planning. It can't be signed until they rebuild that diamond interchange at I-95/future 295/US 13; a feature not allowable at the junction of two interstates.

[Creasy336]

We should stop worrying about I-30 for now and just focus on a interstate routed from I-85 in Gaston county then along the Garden Parkway, I-485, the monroe bypass, upgrade US 74 to interstate standards to the Rockingham bypass...from there use the I-74 routing along with a toll for every section unfunded. It could be called I-36 or something...

[davidals]

We should stop worrying about I-30 for now and just focus on a interstate routed from I-85 in Gaston county then along the Garden Parkway, I-485, the monroe bypass, upgrade US 74 to interstate standards to the Rockingham bypass...from there use the I-74 routing along with a toll for every section unfunded. It could be called I-36 or something...

I actually wrote our Congressional reps with the suggestion of Garden Pkwy+an interstate grade upgrade of 321 between Dallas and Hickory as I-640 (that number will not be used on the Raleigh loop), and didn't get (wasn't expecting) any response. I did copy the letter to the NCDOT and got a pretty curt reply from some engineer stating that "The Garden Pkwy will not be designed to interstate standards."

They are probably designing it as a four-lane as well, guaranteeing another future widening project.

Writing a few Chambers Of Commerce might be a better method of planting the idea.

[Jerseyman4]

If your going to build a limited access toll road, it would be foolish to not build it to interstate standards. Another cutting corner brought to you by NCDOT