Tiers of US cities

[monsoon]

Many Southern cities, including Houston, are building light rail and commuter rail systems. Detroit has yet to make any inroads in this area and instead continues to build super freeways for the automobile. Detroit may be one of the largest urban areas in the modern world without any kind of rail system. (not counting the really ineffective people mover which was never finished)

[PeninsulaKiddo]

The numbers game doesn't play well into others' views of Detroit either. One has to wonder why the population of the city has been continually decreasing by over 10% a decade, but the city has great potential to rise again. It'll take a lot of time and reversing so many decades of developmental problems.

[AvianKeahi]

Many Southern cities, including Houston, are building light rail and commuter rail systems.  Detroit has yet to make any inroads in this area and instead continues to build super freeways for the automobile.    Detroit may be one of the largest urban areas in the modern world without any kind of rail system.  (not counting the really ineffective people mover which was never finished)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bingo.

When General Motors was indicted in Federal Court in the Twin Cities in the 1960's, it was because they were accused (and later found guilty) of bribing Minneapolis politicians to dismantle the street car system. This is a strong indicator that Detroit may never have an effective mass transit system. The automobile interests have too much sway in city politics. I hope I am wrong. Detroit is a great city and deserves the benefits that a first-rate mass transit system can deliver.

If you are interested in an overview of the events surrounding GM's activities, surf to:

http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeliberatelydestroyed.htm

Though you might think this is some liberal BS, the events chronicled here have been well documented elsewhere, even in very conservative newspapers.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Bingo.

When General Motors was indicted in Federal Court in the Twin Cities in the 1960's, it was because they were accused (and later found guilty) of bribing Minneapolis politicians to dismantle the street car system.  This is a strong indicator that Detroit may never have an effective mass transit system.  The automobile interests have too much sway in city politics.  I hope I am wrong.  Detroit is a great city and deserves the benefits that a first-rate mass transit system can deliver.

If you are interested in an overview of the events surrounding GM's activities, surf to:

http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeliberatelydestroyed.htm

Though you might think this is some liberal BS, the events chronicled here have been well documented elsewhere, even in very conservative newspapers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard about this a few times before and it most certainly isn't some biased liberal report (though that was slightly out of Left field... haha, get it?).

Anyway, I think it's sad that if GM and Ford and the others went out of their way to make Detroit the "Motor City" (And freeway Hell-hole) they didn't try to reverse the damage at least by the 1980's when it was becoming evident.

But I guess when you're the world's largest auto corporation $$ signs mean more than human lives and the success of one of America's great cities Was that an unfair statement? I don't think so.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Also, when it's said that Detroit has NO rail whatsoever, does that include Amtrack? I'm not very aware of the transportation system in Detroit other than a grotesque number of major freeways/highways and that I never hear of any mass transit.

[AvianKeahi]

But I guess when you're the world's largest auto corporation $$ signs mean more than human lives and the success of one of America's great cities    Was that an unfair statement?  I don't think so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was a completely fair statement!

But I again say that the citizens of Detroit need to stand up to the forces of the auto industry and declare that a city requires a BALANCED and FAIR system of mass transit. To cave in to the ideology of GM or Ford is detrimental to the health of Detroit. GM and Ford and Chrysler are great companies! But they need to learn that a city exists apart from their own corporate ideology.

The breathtaking ebb and flow of a city's lifeblood is far greater than what any of the corporations can supply as a substitution to the city itself. How can GM possibly take into account the wonderful contributions of a family-owned business in Greektown? What does GM know about the glorious pulse of a small tavern on St. Antoine Street?

What is good for GM is NOT necessarily good for America. What is good for America is NOT necessarily good for GM.

[LowerRoxbury]

Let me say first that I realize this is just an opinion thread, so there is no set of right answers.  I find it mind blowing that someone would think Philly, Detroit, and Seattle are 2nd tier, and Boston, DC, Dallas, and Atlanta are 3rd.  Could you give us a little rationale?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think this response is fairly accurate, i thought one list i saw to be outlandish....philly, detriot, and seattle over boston and d.c, lol! lol! Sorry if I come across mean or rude, but thats just ignorence.

[MJLO]

hehehehe,

it's ok you can be rude, but i'm cracking up at the faux pas of mis-spelling the word ignorance, when using it in that context!

[hudkina]

Also, when it's said that Detroit has NO rail whatsoever, does that include Amtrack?

[hood]

In response to everyones attitude towards Detroit, I've seen many times on this topic people putting Detroit down, saying that Houston, Boston and some other cities should be above it. Sorry, this was not asking what city was the largest, had the lowest crime, or any other statistical stuff. It was asking what are the most recoginzable cities internationally, Detroit is almost on par with DC when it comes to that, largly because of the car industry, many know of Detroit internationally, it is thought of often in the list with NYC, Chicago, LA, SF and DC, not neccasarily as "good" or big as these, but just as one of the major American cities. We all know that bigger doesn't mean better (or recognizable in this case), so you can forget about cities like Houston being significant on the list, and if it wasn't for the '96 olympics Atlanta would likely be insignificant also.

[monsoon]

Detroit is known internationally for autos, Motown, riots and urban decay. Except for Motown, I'm not sure those are good things, and the significance of Motown is going away as the music scene has shift away from what Motown meant.

Houston is very well known because of the manned space program. Anyone having watched the moon landings will know about Houston.

Atlanta is well known for far more than the olympics. Many people consider it the capital of the New South, but with what can also go horribly wrong when you don't have decent urban planning in a growinc city. CNN is mostly broadcast from there and the city was probably best brought into America's concience in the movie Gone with the Wind. A 1930s movie that ranks as one of the most watched of all time. Having the world's busiest airport doesn't hurt either in terms of international recognition.

[hudkina]

Who internationally knows Detroit for riots? Crime maybe, riots, no. Los Angeles is probably the only city known for its riots, only because they are a recent memory and because they were well documented.

[Lady Celeste]

In response to everyones attitude towards Detroit, I've seen many times on this topic people putting Detroit down, saying that Houston, Boston and some other cities should be above it. Sorry, this was not asking what city was the largest, had the lowest crime, or any other statistical stuff. It was asking what are the most recoginzable cities internationally, Detroit is almost on par with DC when it comes to that, largly because of the car industry, many know of Detroit internationally, it is thought of often in the list with NYC, Chicago, LA, SF and DC, not neccasarily as "good" or big as these, but just as one of the major American cities. We all know that bigger doesn't mean better (or recognizable in this case), so you can forget about cities like Houston being significant on the list, and if it wasn't for the '96 olympics Atlanta would likely be insignificant also.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally disagree with you assessment on Atlanta's insignificance had it not been for the Olympics.

Coca~Cola is one of the most known symbols in the world.

Gone with the Wind is one of the most read books in the world.

Martin Luther King is a world known figure.

Has anyone ever heard of CNN?

This is not to say that Atlanta is at the top of the pack.....but then again who cares. In the grand scheme of things someone knowing about Atlanta in Bora Bora is not going to increase the quality of my life. For some people I suppose being known to the world is important but that is meaningless if your citizens are not enjoying the best life has to offer. Rio de Janiero is known around the world as well...but surely you can find citizens of that city in adverse poverty. That's not a knock on Detroit or any city for that matter. It has never been my M.O. to tear down others to build myself up......that's so counter productive.

That being said, when I was in college, I did a semester in Erlangen, Germany. Oddly enough at that time Atlanta's Symphony Orchestra was enjoying much exposure and had garnered serveral ovations during it's European tour under the direction of Yoel Levi. A very fine director I might add. For the seasoned and highbrow European audiences, standing ovations are hard to earn even for European symphonies. Amongst people of certain ranks, this gave Atlanta much needed exposure. This occured before the Olympics.

The Olympics merely gave increased international exposure among those of more common existence.

[Lady Celeste]

Oooops!

I should have read monsoon's response first.

Sorry.

[theSuburbs]

I totally disagree with you assessment on Atlanta's insignificance had it not been for the Olympics.

Coca~Cola is one of the most known symbols in the world.

Gone with the Wind is one of the most read books in the world.

Martin Luther King is a world known figure.

Has anyone ever heard of CNN?

This is not to say that Atlanta is at the top of the pack.....but then again who cares. In the grand scheme of things someone knowing about Atlanta in Bora Bora is not going to increase the quality of my life. For some people I suppose being known to the world is important but that is meaningless if your citizens are not enjoying the best life has to offer. Rio de Janiero is known around the world as well...but surely you can find citizens of that city in adverse poverty. That's not a knock on Detroit or any city for that matter. It has never been my M.O. to tear down others to build myself up......that's so counter productive.

That being said, when I was in college, I did a semester in Erlangen, Germany. Oddly enough at that time Atlanta's Symphony Orchestra was enjoying much exposure and had garnered serveral ovations during it's European tour under the direction of Yoel Levi. A very fine director I might add. For the seasoned and highbrow European audiences, standing ovations are hard to earn even for European symphonies. Amongst people of certain ranks, this gave Atlanta much needed exposure. This occured before the Olympics.

The Olympics merely gave increased international exposure among those of more common existence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When most people think of Atlanta, they are not thinking of Coca Cola, CNN, or MLK. Most people don't realize that these things are associated with Atlanta.

When it comes to the automobile, though, the Motorcity comes to mind

[PeninsulaKiddo]

When most people think of Atlanta, they are not thinking of Coca Cola, CNN, or MLK. Most people don't realize that these things are associated with Atlanta.

When it comes to the automobile, though, the Motorcity comes to mind

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My first thoughts of Atlanta are generally 1996 Olympics, CNN (for anyone who works in an office environment and watches CNN or Bloomberg, they know that), and I think of the Weather Channel. Information TV and sports are big things Atlanta is known for.

Detroit makes me think of Ford, "The Motorcity", and even though it's only a semi-accurate stereotype of the city, I often think of crime.

Those are just my opinions, but I think that to an European person they might only know Atlanta for its airport and as "another American city". How many average Americans know the importance of the city of Frankfurt in Germany to that country's economy? Similar thing here I guess comparing to Detroit and Atlanta.

[ChunkyMonkey]

On aquariums:

--Although it may not be a "World Class" city, or one that is recognised in several countries, Chattanooga is pretty famous for its world class aquarium.

Here's a revised list of cities in my opinion:

Tier 1a:

New York City (in a class of its own)

Tier 1b:

Los Angeles

Chicago

Tier 1c:

Washington

San Francisco

Philadelphia

Houston

Honolulu (very important for US Military, Port, etc.)

Tier 2a: (important because of businesses, transportation, etc.)

Miami

Dallas

Atlanta

Boston

Minneapolis-St. Paul

Seattle

Detroit

San Diego

Pittsburgh

St. Louis

Cleveland

Baltimore

Tier 2b: (important because of entertainment, attractions, etc)

Las Vegas

New Orleans

Nashville

Tier 3:

San Antonio

Phoenix

Charlotte

Buffalo

Kansas City

Denver

Salt Lake City

San Jose (Silicon Valley)

Columbus, OH

Cinncinati, OH

Milwaukee

Tier 4:

Providence

Hartford

Anchorage (Very important for military, airport, port)

Memphis (Very big cargo hub...largest cargo airport in the world)

Atlantic City (casinos, etc....would be higher, but is very small)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with the Tier 1a, 1b. I don't see any cities in Tier 1c. I certainly don't see Philly, Houston higher than Boston, Atlanta and Dallas. Honolulu definitely does not belong witht the group It has a great international tourist repuation but nothing in the business sense. I would put Boston higher out of all the cities as it is a destination for business, leisure and a huge magnet for international students. Here's what I see.

Tier 2a

Washington, DC

San Francisco

Boston

Miami

Tier 2b

Philly

Houston

Dallas

Atlanta

Seattle

Tier 2c

Minneapolis

Las Vegas

Honolulu

Tier 3

Denver

Detroit

San Diego

Pittsburgh

St. Louis

Cleveland

Baltimore

[cheeriokid61]

Actually, I think that his list is very good, just switch Honolulu with Boston. Philadelphia is, believe it or not, one of the largest cities in the country, like number 5. It is very important. And sometimes, enetertainment and tourism are some of the biggest factors in deciding where a city should be, not just business and economy.

[Plasticman]

Being that you are from outside the US, I must ask. What about Detroit made you put it in a tier above any of the cities you put in tier 3? Nothing against Detroit but...

I also question putting Philadelphia above Boston, Atlanta, and even Houston. I'd say Philly and Atlanta should be at the same level, whether that means moving Philly down or Atlanta up? I'm not sure. I'd lean toward bumping Philly down.

Then there's Washington, without the federal government it wouldn't exist, but the federal government is there. Is the federal government enough to make it a 2nd tier city?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm more puzzled by the Seattle in tier two? Atlanta and Houston are both bigger in metro population and have more impressive skylines. I would also venture that if you go anywhere overseas, Atlanta has much more name recognition than Seattle.

[ironchapman]

Actually, I think that his list is very good, just switch Honolulu with Boston. Philadelphia is, believe it or not, one of the largest cities in the country, like number 5. It is very important. And sometimes, enetertainment and tourism are some of the biggest factors in deciding where a city should be, not just business and economy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, Honolulu is one of the most important Pacific ports and is vital to the US military.

Houston is one of the capitals of the petrochemical industry, and it has more F-500 companies in it than any other US city except NYC.

Boston I could see being bumped up to a Tier 1c.

I'm also thinking of bumping Cincy up to a Tier 2a city.

Of course, if necessary, I would add it to 2a or 2b. I could see it there.

I agree with the Tier 1a, 1b. I don't see any cities in Tier 1c. I certainly don't see Philly, Houston higher than Boston, Atlanta and Dallas. Honolulu definitely does not belong witht the group It has a great international tourist repuation but nothing in the business sense. I would put Boston higher out of all the cities as it is a destination for business, leisure and a huge magnet for international students.

The only reason I divided up Tier one into so many levels was becuase NYC is in a class of its own, and LA and chicago deserve to have a class to themselves also, just not with NYC.

So, I propose this based upon what you guys have said (the itlaicized cities have been moved from their original position):

Tier 1a:

New York City (in a class of its own)

Tier 1b:

Los Angeles

Chicago

Tier 1c:

Washington

San Francisco

Philadelphia

Houston

Boston

Tier 2a: (important because of businesses, transportation, etc.)

Miami

Dallas

Atlanta

Minneapolis-St. Paul

Seattle

Detroit

San Diego

Pittsburgh

St. Louis

Cleveland

Baltimore

Honolulu (very important for US Military, Port, etc.)

Hampton Roads (port, military, and tourism)

Cinncinati

Tier 2b: (important because of entertainment, attractions, etc)

Las Vegas

New Orleans

Nashville

Tier 3:

San Antonio

Phoenix

Charlotte

Buffalo

Kansas City

Denver

Salt Lake City

San Jose (Silicon Valley)

Columbus, OH

Milwaukee

Tier 4:

Providence

Hartford

Anchorage (Very important for military, airport, port)

Memphis (Very big cargo hub...largest cargo airport in the world)

Atlantic City (casinos, etc....would be higher, but is very small)

[PeninsulaKiddo]

If you're going to put Honolulu on there for the military and being a major port, then you HAVE to include Norfolk, VA in that same class. Our port is only smaller than NYC and Savannah, Ga. on the east seaboard. Also, our region is incomparable in terms of military presence. So toss us in 2a right below Honolulu.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Houston Texas has more than 2 million people in its city limits. The 4th largest city in the US.

It would come close a 1 and no lower than a 2.

[TheBostonian]

Oh my. I just spent way too much time skimming through the first 20 pages of this thread.

It is cool to see Boston ranking relatively high without controversy--at least in the parts of the thread I've seen.

A woman in London asked me where I come from. When I answered, "Boston, " she said, "that's classy." I've always wondered if she was making fun of me or if Boston is simply a classy place to this woman. Does she assume I descend from the Founding Fathers, attended Harvard and live on Beacon Hill (next to John Kerry's townhouse, of course)?

[ironchapman]

If you're going to put Honolulu on there for the military and being a major port, then you HAVE to include Norfolk, VA in that same class.

[*Sweetkisses*]

Oh my.  I just spent way too much time skimming through the first 20 pages of this thread.

It is cool to see Boston ranking relatively high without controversy--at least in the parts of the thread I've seen.

A woman in London asked me where I come from.  When I answered, "Boston, " she said, "that's classy."  I've always wondered if she was making fun of me or if Boston is simply a classy place to this woman.  Does she assume I descend from the Founding Fathers, attended Harvard and live on Beacon Hill (next to John Kerry's townhouse, of course)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She probably was serious. Boston is classy