Fayetteville, Arkansas

[thewizard16]

While we're on the green talk, this may have been mentioned already, but if not, Arvest is building their first LEED certified bank on Joyce right across from the Post Office by Bellafont. I found that interesting.

[Mith242]

That's neat - I had never heard the name Fayette Junction before. Anyone know the history behind that name?

Yeah I'm not sure if that's a new name that's popped up or if it's something that's been established for a while.

While we're on the green talk, this may have been mentioned already, but if not, Arvest is building their first LEED certified bank on Joyce right across from the Post Office by Bellafont. I found that interesting.

Oh yeah, I believe someone mentioned it when it was first planned. But I don't think it was mentioned when the bank was finally completed. It is good to see other companies getting on board with this.

[floatman]

That's neat - I had never heard the name Fayette Junction before. Anyone know the history behind that name?

According to a great history written by local Denelle Campbell this area was a primary early industrial area. The railroad has a wye at this location with a spur going east through Elkins to St. Paul. Most of this track has been torn up now. The area of the wye is where the concrete plant is located on Cato Springs Rd. just east of Razorback. The junction in this spot allowed for many early industries to thrive in this location (lumber, fence posts for the great plains, the Sligo wagon and wheel company, and later fruit and vegetable canning and poultry products). The area has a very rich history and it along with what was known as "Quicktown", now the mill district, provided the early blue collar jobs in south Fayetteville.

[Thia]

According to a great history written by local Denelle Campbell this area was a primary early industrial area. The railroad has a wye at this location with a spur going east through Elkins to St. Paul. Most of this track has been torn up now. The area of the wye is where the concrete plant is located on Cato Springs Rd. just east of Razorback. The junction in this spot allowed for many early industries to thrive in this location (lumber, fence posts for the great plains, the Sligo wagon and wheel company, and later fruit and vegetable canning and poultry products). The area has a very rich history and it along with what was known as "Quicktown", now the mill district, provided the early blue collar jobs in south Fayetteville.

Has Denelle Campbell authored a book or other publication? If so, what is the name of it and where can I get a copy? I'm interested to learn more about Fayetteville's history and this sounds like a great source.

[cowbreath]

According to a great history written by local Denelle Campbell this area was a primary early industrial area. The railroad has a wye at this location with a spur going east through Elkins to St. Paul. Most of this track has been torn up now. The area of the wye is where the concrete plant is located on Cato Springs Rd. just east of Razorback. The junction in this spot allowed for many early industries to thrive in this location (lumber, fence posts for the great plains, the Sligo wagon and wheel company, and later fruit and vegetable canning and poultry products). The area has a very rich history and it along with what was known as "Quicktown", now the mill district, provided the early blue collar jobs in south Fayetteville.

That's pretty cool, thanks for posting that. I had first heard of Fayette Junction a few months ago when severe storms were coming through our area and we were watching the weather on tv. The weatherman put up the times and locations of the path of the storm.

[floatman]

Has Denelle Campbell authored a book or other publication? If so, what is the name of it and where can I get a copy? I'm interested to learn more about Fayetteville's history and this sounds like a great source.

Denele Campbell published an article on the history of this area in the Washington County Historical Society publication I believe in the winter of 2005. If you contact the WCHS they can make it available to you.

[Mith242]

Cool, thanks for that info floatman. It's very interesting to hear some details that most of us haven't ever heard. I'll have to look into Denelle Campbell's book.

[zman9810]

This is a few days old news but Washington County has moved ahead with plans to buy the Terminella Building on college Ave. just south and across the street from the current courthouse. At $4.5 million it is a good buy since it was appraised at $5 million. They will only build one courtroom in it for Judge Gunn to use while the historic courthouse is being renovated on the inside.

[Mith242]

This is a few days old news but Washington County has moved ahead with plans to buy the Terminella Building on college Ave. just south and across the street from the current courthouse. At $4.5 million it is a good buy since it was appraised at $5 million. They will only build one courtroom in it for Judge Gunn to use while the historic courthouse is being renovated on the inside.

Yeah I just never had gotten around to posting anything about it. Although I don't think it was official till last night. I'm curious when we might hear more about a possible parking deck and skybridge across College Ave.

Something else I wanted to mention. I hadn't noticed it before, but I saw a small crane along North St between Garland and Leverett. As I got closer I noticed on the south side of the street there looked to be some sort of retaining wall a bit off from the street and apparently the crane is somewhere up the hill near there. Anyone heard anything about what this development is? I'm guessing it might be some sort of apartment complex, but I don't generally see stuff like that for your typical apartment complex.

[Mith242]

Sounds like the city will soon be talking to people about widening Garland. Usually there isn't a big commotion about widening roads, although there have been a few instances. But I think this is going to be one of those times. To widen Garland to 5 lanes I'm pretty sure some properties are going to have to be condemned and torn down. Even homes that won't be torn down will have considerably less yard. I just get the impression there's going to be a vocal group against widening the street. It does surprise me a bit though that a number of people seemed surprised about the widening. Seems like the city has talked about widening Garland for the past 15 years or so now. I'm a bit curious to see if the city tries to compromise or if they'll stick to the full five lanes.

[zman9810]

Sounds like the city will soon be talking to people about widening Garland. Usually there isn't a big commotion about widening roads, although there have been a few instances. But I think this is going to be one of those times. To widen Garland to 5 lanes I'm pretty sure some properties are going to have to be condemned and torn down. Even homes that won't be torn down will have considerably less yard. I just get the impression there's going to be a vocal group against widening the street. It does surprise me a bit though that a number of people seemed surprised about the widening. Seems like the city has talked about widening Garland for the past 15 years or so now. I'm a bit curious to see if the city tries to compromise or if they'll stick to the full five lanes.

I don't get it- Garland is a major throughfare that should have been widened years ago. It leads to one of the few I540 interchanges Fayetteville has and will be another connection to the mall area when Van Asche is extended over to it. Traffic will continue to increase on the street and if it isn't widened to 5 lanes now it will be some day in the future. The argument that it is a neighborhood street doesn't work- it is the path used by the entire region to get through the neighborhood .

[Mith242]

I don't get it- Garland is a major thoroughfare that should have been widened years ago. It leads to one of the few I540 interchanges Fayetteville has and will be another connection to the mall area when Van Asche is extended over to it. Traffic will continue to increase on the street and if it isn't widened to 5 lanes now it will be some day in the future. The argument that it is a neighborhood street doesn't work- it is the path used by the entire region to get through the neighborhood .

Yeah, although that certainly isn't stopping some people from making those arguments. It does have a residential aspect to it, but at the same time it's not quite the same as other areas of the city. While some homes aren't lived in by the owners I think overall there's probably more people who rent those homes out to college students and such. But like you said it is an important link to the university and one the university is wanting to enhance. They've already realized that it's the place where most people enter the university and they'll be putting a parking garage somewhere at the top of the hill. It also just seems to make sense as a street that would make a good location for another major north-south route. The only other real option of a major north-south west of College Ave is west of I-540. Some of the businesses that might have to be torn down are ones that Tony C owns and he's even had those up for sale already. I'm a little surprised the city hasn't bought those already. I think it has bought a few properties down the street so that it would make it easier for when they do finally get around to widening it. But like I said before, I guess what gets me is how many people seem shocked the city is widening this road. Seems like some people only want it widened to 3 lanes, although I've seen some people who want it left exactly as is. The only problems I've seen is I'm not sure if it really fixes the problem of how Mt Comfort Rd intersects Garland and what to do with all the traffic that follows the Deane to Sycamore route. It would be nice if they could find a way to try to combine those two roads that end into Garland into one intersection.

Although I do agree with the mayor that you can't fix all your problems by simply widening roads, this one just seems to be a very good candidate. This whole thing might not get as heated as I think it might, but it has the potential. Perhaps also complicating matters is that's it's also an election year and whether anyone wants to make a decision that might anger a number of people. But even if the city does compromise and simply go to a three lane road, it would be a limited matter. At some point in the near future I just can't see Garland staying a three lane road.

[Mith242]

Well looks like Fayetteville will mull the decision about Garland a while longer. Sounds like quite a few people suggested making Garland 3 lanes and the city will look into it. Although ironically it doesn't sound like Fayetteville won't exactly have the final say in the matter. Garland is also Hwy 112 so the state could decide to make it 5 lane anyway. But I would think in most cases they tend to go with what the city wants. At least there hasn't been too much talk of getting rid of the bike lanes and such.

[zman9810]

Well looks like Fayetteville will mull the decision about Garland a while longer. Sounds like quite a few people suggested making Garland 3 lanes and the city will look into it. Although ironically it doesn't sound like Fayetteville won't exactly have the final say in the matter. Garland is also Hwy 112 so the state could decide to make it 5 lane anyway. But I would think in most cases they tend to go with what the city wants. At least there hasn't been too much talk of getting rid of the bike lanes and such.

Hopefully the state will see how short-sighted it would be to only widen it to a 3 lane road. Like you said earlier Garland is a major north-south route through the city and will only grow in importance and traffic load. Trying to choke traffic away from it won't work- it will always be the most direct route to campus from the north and a primary route to the mall area when Van Asche is extended.

I'd like to see the state refuse to contribute money for a 3 lane road - if the City of Fayetteville lacks the foresight to properly improve the corridor it should bear the entire cost. The state should see that they would be asked to help pay for two widening projects on the same stretch of road in a short period of time and back away.

The concerns about how the properties along the road develop can be addressed by zoning the same way they were along Wedington Road. It was a widened through a residential area from Garland to I540 and hasn't developed into commercial road like College or Sixth St.

Edited August 19, 2008 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Hopefully the state will see how short-sighted it would be to only widen it to a 3 lane road. Like you said earlier Garland is a major north-south route through the city and will only grow in importance and traffic load. Trying to choke traffic away from it won't work- it will always be the most direct route to campus from the north and a primary route to the mall area when Van Asche is extended.

I'd like to see the state refuse to contribute money for a 3 lane road - if the City of Fayetteville lacks the foresight to properly improve the corridor it should bear the entire cost. The state should see that they would be asked to help pay for two widening projects on the same stretch of road in a short period of time and back away.

The concerns about how the properties along the road develop can be addressed by zoning the same way they were along Wedington Road. It was a widened through a residential area from Garland to I540 and hasn't developed into commercial road like College or Sixth St.

I'm really not sure what the state would do. In most cases they tend to side with the city. And even when they don't it's usually the situation where the city wants more than the state is willing to pay. Like if Fayetteville wanted a 4-5 lane road but the state was only willing to go with 3. I don't think it's often that the opposite happens. I think one thing that was mentioned that if they cut things down to three lanes then there would likely be more funding to try to increase the widening. Instead of just doing North to Melmar then they could go ahead and extend it so that there was three lanes all the way to I-540. Of course they were going to widen the section north of Melmar to I-540 at some point in the near future anyway. But anyway guess we'll probably end up waiting a while longer before the debate comes back up. But as I said before, even if they do compromise and go with only 3 lanes, I still think they'll have to widen it some more in the next decade or so.

[hogwash]

Interestingly, the 2007 state traffic counts for that road show a similar volume to what you see along the School-Archibald Yell-College area. Wasn't the city proposing to take that back down to 2-lanes with a median?

It'd be nice to see the impact the Sam's location has had on that street in that last year.

A two-lane with a median might work for now if you could solve some access managment issues. The problem is all the old development through there up to the farms. You have a lot of older homes that directly access Garland.

Just fixing the Deane and Sycamore problem could solve so many issues as Mith was saying, but there are at least 3-4 houses that would have to be taken out to do it.

So often traffic problems are an issue of flow. You can easily maintain a high level of service on fewer lanes if don't have lots of conflict points. You start getting lots of closely space driveways and offset road intersections and you'll have problems no matter how wide the road is.

[butttrumpet]

I have been reading here for a while and I have to speak up on this issue. It is ridiculous for the city to be doing everything in its power to calm traffic in some residential areas and then turn around and destroy this neighborhood with a 5 lane highway through the middle of it. I believe a lot of the traffic on Garland could be addressed if there were simply a turn lane to Elm and then they could put a median through the section in the farm. Imagine how beautiful this road could be. There should also be bike lanes and sidewalks the entire stretch. The bike lanes would allow university students to ride out to Sam's and make the loop out to the section of trail that will eventually connect the Razorback golf course area with the Mud Creek trail.

I don't think another high speed highway through the heart of town is what we need. Increase the capacity with 3 lanes, and let it go. This is a road that dead ends into the university. Where is all this traffic supposed to come from that is going to use it in years to come? Not from Gregg, as it is already 4 laned to the expressway. Not from Wedington, because those folks already have a highway street leading them out to 540. As for incoming traffic, unless it is headed to the university, there are other better routes into the city already.

I think 3 lanes where necessary and a median with bike lanes like Vantage in NE Fayetteville would be excellent, and an improvement over what is there now. Sure, traffic won't FLY out of town during football games, but 3 lanes will definitely improve it. I think Dan Coody is correct about his holistic approach to transportation and this road should be looked at as something to improve traffic flow in this area, not solve it for the next 30 years.

I also believe the city should consider moving Sycamore back down to 3 lanes from Gregg to Leverett, and add a section of trail quality sidewalk on the south right of way. I believe that it makes sense given that the new trail crosses Sycamore, and that Sycamore doesn't need 4 lanes for traffic. The new trail section in the right of way would allow for a great connection into the new trail from Gregg Avenue and neighborhoods east, as well as the whole immediate neighborhood.

[Mith242]

I have been reading here for a while and I have to speak up on this issue. It is ridiculous for the city to be doing everything in its power to calm traffic in some residential areas and then turn around and destroy this neighborhood with a 5 lane highway through the middle of it. I believe a lot of the traffic on Garland could be addressed if there were simply a turn lane to Elm and then they could put a median through the section in the farm. Imagine how beautiful this road could be. There should also be bike lanes and sidewalks the entire stretch. The bike lanes would allow university students to ride out to Sam's and make the loop out to the section of trail that will eventually connect the Razorback golf course area with the Mud Creek trail.

I don't think another high speed highway through the heart of town is what we need. Increase the capacity with 3 lanes, and let it go. This is a road that dead ends into the university. Where is all this traffic supposed to come from that is going to use it in years to come? Not from Gregg, as it is already 4 laned to the expressway. Not from Wedington, because those folks already have a highway street leading them out to 540. As for incoming traffic, unless it is headed to the university, there are other better routes into the city already.

I think 3 lanes where necessary and a median with bike lanes like Vantage in NE Fayetteville would be excellent, and an improvement over what is there now. Sure, traffic won't FLY out of town during football games, but 3 lanes will definitely improve it. I think Dan Coody is correct about his holistic approach to transportation and this road should be looked at as something to improve traffic flow in this area, not solve it for the next 30 years.

I also believe the city should consider moving Sycamore back down to 3 lanes from Gregg to Leverett, and add a section of trail quality sidewalk on the south right of way. I believe that it makes sense given that the new trail crosses Sycamore, and that Sycamore doesn't need 4 lanes for traffic. The new trail section in the right of way would allow for a great connection into the new trail from Gregg Avenue and neighborhoods east, as well as the whole immediate neighborhood.

Welcome to the forum. I think the biggest thing about Garland is planning for the future. Yeah we could probably get by with just three lanes for now. But I still think more will be needed in the near future. Overall I do agree with Coody and that widening every road isn't the answer. But I just think another major north-south road is going to be needed between College and I-540 and well it's pretty much going to have to be Garland. I just hate the idea of widening it just a little and then having to widen it more in just 5 years or so like we've done with other roads. But overall this is being planned by the Arkansas Highway and Transportation Dept. They're also planning on widening Razorback Rd too, which is partially where they are going with this idea of having a 4-5 lane road through the city. I'd guess they'll connect it with widening that section of Maple between Garland and Razorback. But I understand it's not going to be a popular idea with everyone. I do agree with you about Sycamore. Unless they're going to get around to widening other sections of Sycamore it seems odd to have that one small section 4 lanes. I'm guessing they did it assuming the city would eventually try making it a major east-west route. There really isn't one except for the northern and southern ends of the city.

[zman9810]

Garland's place in Fayetteville's road network was decided decades ago when it was given an interchange with I540. That decision made it a primary route into and out of town. It has 4 lanes between Maple and North and 4/5 lanes out by I540. To create a bottleneck of 3 lanes between the two sections is not wise.

As for where the additional trafffic that will use Garland in the future- Park West, a project that includes a maximum of 1,712 housing units and 856,000 square feet of commercial space at Arkansas 112 is planned. The project is west of Landers Auto Park and the drive-in theater and north of Sam's Club. The City of Fayetteville is in the process of annexing land from Johnson that is slated for commercial development. The extension of Van Asche to Garland is designed to provide access to that land and to the commercial district around the NWA Mall that is so vital to the collection of the sales taxes that the city government depends on so heavily. Trying to increase accessibilty on one hand and restrict it on the other doesn't make sense.

The widening of Garland doesn't have to be another mistake like what happened with the southern end of Crossover Road. I have heard the section of Garland from Maple to North described as beautiful many times. The same type road can be extended all the way to Drake Street with a 5 lane section through the Oak Plaza/ Harp's area and turn lanes at major intersections. With traffic signals and the median to provide traffic calming both side's concerns on this issue can be met.

Edited August 20, 2008 by zman9810

[butttrumpet]

The ONLY way I could support a more than 3 lane Garland is if they built it like the section up the hill from North. I haven't heard of any plans to make it into a boulevard with a tree-lined median at all. If it were built like this with a few turning spots, as well as SEVERAL brick crosswalks like the section on campus as well as bike lanes, I think it would be more accepted by the neighborhood. Capacity could be increased, and the speed could be kept reasonable. Plus it would be another beautiful boulevard, like you said....The only downside would be a few residents having to make right turns in order to get somewhere where they would normally make a left. If I owned property directly ON Garland, I would take that tradeoff as opposed to having a wide 5-lane swath of asphalt out my front door. Sionce there aren't any businesses on Garland for most of this stretch, I wouldn't think there'd be a lot of complaints about lack of left-turn accesss. There is an opportunity here to make a beautiful road, but yes my fear is another highspeed south Crossover or Wedington running through this part of town. I would think that medians would add a lot to the cost and that it might not be an option, that is why I would definitely prefer a 3-lane version.

Has anbody on here seen plans for the College Avenue construction going on right now? I heard we are getting some street trees but I wonder if that means that there will be median with trees or just along the sides like it is on Dickson Street. I have looked for plans on the Fayetteville website and can't find any anywhere..

[Mith242]

Garland's place in Fayetteville's road network was decided decades ago when it was given an interchange with I540. That decision made it a primary route into and out of town. It has 4 lanes between Maple and North and 4/5 lanes out by I540. To create a bottleneck of 3 lanes between the two sections is not wise.

As for where the additional trafffic that will use Garland in the future- Park West, a project that includes a maximum of 1,712 housing units and 856,000 square feet of commercial space at Arkansas 112 is planned. The project is west of Landers Auto Park and the drive-in theater and north of Sam's Club. The City of Fayetteville is in the process of annexing land from Johnson that is slated for commercial development. The extension of Van Asche to Garland is designed to provide access to that land and to the commercial district around the NWA Mall that is so vital to the collection of the sales taxes that the city government depends on so heavily. Trying to increase accessibilty on one hand and restrict it on the other doesn't make sense.

Interesting points I hadn't considered.

[Mith242]

The ONLY way I could support a more than 3 lane Garland is if they built it like the section up the hill from North. I haven't heard of any plans to make it into a boulevard with a tree-lined median at all. If it were built like this with a few turning spots, as well as SEVERAL brick crosswalks like the section on campus as well as bike lanes, I think it would be more accepted by the neighborhood. Capacity could be increased, and the speed could be kept reasonable. Plus it would be another beautiful boulevard, like you said....The only downside would be a few residents having to make right turns in order to get somewhere where they would normally make a left. If I owned property directly ON Garland, I would take that tradeoff as opposed to having a wide 5-lane swath of asphalt out my front door. Sionce there aren't any businesses on Garland for most of this stretch, I wouldn't think there'd be a lot of complaints about lack of left-turn accesss. There is an opportunity here to make a beautiful road, but yes my fear is another highspeed south Crossover or Wedington running through this part of town. I would think that medians would add a lot to the cost and that it might not be an option, that is why I would definitely prefer a 3-lane version.

Has anbody on here seen plans for the College Avenue construction going on right now? I heard we are getting some street trees but I wonder if that means that there will be median with trees or just along the sides like it is on Dickson Street. I have looked for plans on the Fayetteville website and can't find any anywhere..

I could be wrong but for some reason I thought I had heard that they said it would not be widened into a boulevard type road. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it being a boulevard as long as they allowed enough cuts into the median so that you wouldn't have to go very far. But like I was saying I was under the impression they weren't planning on making it a boulevard past North St.

I've heard some ideas about College Ave, but haven't seen anything set in stone yet. Not sure but I guess I was under the impression they were just talking about some ideas at this stage.

[Mith242]

In other Fayetteville news, the city has made it so that developers can't put in apartments into Neighborhood Conservation Zones. Annexation on Southpass is apparently on hold till at least October. Sounds like some city officials aren't thrilled to annex such a large piece of land, in particular Lioneld Jordan. Guess I shouldn't be too surprised there. Although I can understand some arguments, like it not fitting the principle for City Plan 2025, I still think it would be a good decent development. First of all we're talking about a large piece of property and there's no way they could do anything like this on any piece of land in the city center. I do want us to help prevent sprawl and not let things get out of control. But until the city gives incentives to developers nobody is going to buy property in the center of the city to redevelop. Between very high real estate prices and building heights there's just little chance of a developer being able to do much in my opinion. But anyway, to me this development doesn't seem to be that 'far out there'. This is land west of Drake Field.

Looks like Fayetteville will also hire a consulting firm to study how people perceive our city and metro. I didn't quite get if it was how people in our area think about the city and metro or if this is more directed to people outside our area. I'm guessing the latter.

[Stormcrow]

In more news...Superior Industries has announced some layoffs across the board and the closure of the Pittsburg KS plant. Some people in Fayetteville and Rogers as well will be out of work. No word on how many.

[Mith242]

Here's an early rendering of a possible parking garage and skybridge across College Ave. But still no word on whether St Paul's Episcopal Church will work with the city.

http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/68387/