Fayetteville, Arkansas

[jdevers]

I'm a Democrat who lives in Fayetteville and is originally from LA (Lower Arkansas), I don't see how the two areas would mesh at all. The Democrats up here are actual liberal Democrats for the most part, as opposed to moderate or even conservative "Blue dog" Democrats of that area. The party down there is mostly social conservatives with a strong fiscal liberal lean, NWA Democrats are almost the opposite socially and are probably a bit more fiscally conservative.

The worst part about this plan in my opinion is that it started as a plan by a man from Marvel, which is a town not in either district which is so far removed from the third district that the 200 mile gulf can't even begin to describe it. All of the opposition to this plan so far has focused on how it is "partisan politics at it's worst" and such, when in reality a group pushing against it should probably mention how it could be construed as an attempt by the Delta to undermine NWA as a cohesive force. That may not be reality, but it would be a very strong way to push against this gerrymandering attempt.

[zman9810]

I'm a Democrat who lives in Fayetteville and is originally from LA (Lower Arkansas), I don't see how the two areas would mesh at all. The Democrats up here are actual liberal Democrats for the most part, as opposed to moderate or even conservative "Blue dog" Democrats of that area. The party down there is mostly social conservatives with a strong fiscal liberal lean, NWA Democrats are almost the opposite socially and are probably a bit more fiscally conservative.

The worst part about this plan in my opinion is that it started as a plan by a man from Marvel, which is a town not in either district which is so far removed from the third district that the 200 mile gulf can't even begin to describe it. All of the opposition to this plan so far has focused on how it is "partisan politics at it's worst" and such, when in reality a group pushing against it should probably mention how it could be construed as an attempt by the Delta to undermine NWA as a cohesive force. That may not be reality, but it would be a very strong way to push against this gerrymandering attempt.

I fit that description as socially liberal but more conservative fiscally. There is one theory that this won't help the Democrats keep the 4th district because Fayetteville Democrats will vote Green Party if the city is taken out of the 3rd district. In that scenario it would just strengthen the Republican hold on the 3rd district- something that isn't assured forever.

That is a good point about the possiblity that this is also aimed at dividing NWA. It will certainly do so and the fact that it is being pushed the most by people out of the area lends credence to that idea. Our local legislators need to take care of Fayetteville's interests first and their party politics second. We should know something this week- the legislature is about up for this session.

[akahogfan]

In that scenario it would just strengthen the Republican hold on the 3rd district- something that isn't assured forever.

This is something that I have been thinking about. The increase in population in NWA (assuming that it pics back up), especially with the Hispanic population in Springdale, is not going to be decidedly Republican. If Fayetteville is taken out of the 3rd I think that it would remove any possibility of this being a contested district in the future. On the other hand, keeping Fayetteville were it is would mean that a more conservative population would being moving out, further evening out the situation for NWA. Putting Fayetteville in the 4th district just seems shortsighted, something that might be reversed another ten years from now.

Edited March 28, 2011 by akahogfan

[Mith242]

Costs were higher than anticipated and there were delays but the parking deck at the Washington County Courthouse was finally opened yesterday. It will certainly be nice to be able to park there again and not have to look for other areas and walk over.

[Mith242]

So far other redistricting plans have been rejected. Which of course still leaves the proposal to move Fayetteville out of the third district. Steve Clark, President of the Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce met with Sue Madison the other day. She still says she has to remain 'neutral' so that any redistricting plan gets a 'fair chance'. Which of course means she supports this but because the idea has so much opposition within Fayetteville she won't officially back the plan. Steve Clark obviously isn't happy with these games that Sue Madison and Greg Leding are playing and has now asked them to resign if they are "unwilling or unable to represent the interests of Fayetteville". I don't know if this will really have any affect on either senator. But it's nice to see someone trying to stand up to the two of them. They keep trying to spin this, saying things like it would be possible to have two congressmen from NWA. But of course failing to mention Fayetteville would have to rely on south Arkansas to vote our way. The chance of which I don't find very reassuring. I wouldn't exactly label myself as a Democrat. But I have mentioned to do lean more left than right. But I do know this. If Fayetteville is sent packing to the fourth district, I don't see myself voting for any Democratic candidate for any congressional position in the next decade. I don't know if I'd vote republican or not, but I'll give a Green party candidate my vote before I will a Democrat with the way this whole farce has gone down. And I hope I'm not the only person that does this.

[thewizard16]

So far other redistricting plans have been rejected. Which of course still leaves the proposal to move Fayetteville out of the third district. Steve Clark, President of the Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce met with Sue Madison the other day. She still says she has to remain 'neutral' so that any redistricting plan gets a 'fair chance'. Which of course means she supports this but because the idea has so much opposition within Fayetteville she won't officially back the plan. Steve Clark obviously isn't happy with these games that Sue Madison and Greg Leding are playing and has now asked them to resign if they are "unwilling or unable to represent the interests of Fayetteville". I don't know if this will really have any affect on either senator. But it's nice to see someone trying to stand up to the two of them. They keep trying to spin this, saying things like it would be possible to have two congressmen from NWA. But of course failing to mention Fayetteville would have to rely on south Arkansas to vote our way. The chance of which I don't find very reassuring. I wouldn't exactly label myself as a Democrat. But I have mentioned to do lean more left than right. But I do know this. If Fayetteville is sent packing to the fourth district, I don't see myself voting for any Democratic candidate for any congressional position in the next decade. I don't know if I'd vote republican or not, but I'll give a Green party candidate my vote before I will a Democrat with the way this whole farce has gone down. And I hope I'm not the only person that does this.

The stupidity and partisan motivations behind this redistricting mess are extremely frustrating. Sue Madison needs to be get over herself and her blatant partisan intentions and represent her constituents better. But she isn't the only problem. Here's an image of a potential redistricting map that's been floating around the capitol this evening:

Worst I've seen so far, and that's saying something.

Edited March 31, 2011 by thewizard16

[Mith242]

The stupidity and partisan motivations behind this redistricting mess are extremely frustrating. Sue Madison needs to be get over herself and her blatant partisan intentions and represent her constituents better. But she isn't the only problem. Here's an image of a potential redistricting map that's been floating around the capitol this evening:

Worst I've seen so far, and that's saying something.

Wow, I find it hard to believe someone actually came up with this idea and thought it was a good plan. Northeast Ark and Southwest Ark are somewhat unified. But even they still sprawl out a bit too much. But those second and third districts, come on. Well if this was the type of stuff that's been coming out then I can see why they're being rejected. But surely someone has come out with a somewhat decent redistricting plan that doesn't totally rewrite the map. And doesn't have small wondering sections and so on. I just noticed Benton County would actually be divided into all four districts in that plan. Hey they can advertise it as Benton County having the chance to have all members from their county. Like that would ever happen.

[zman9810]

The stupidity and partisan motivations behind this redistricting mess are extremely frustrating. Sue Madison needs to be get over herself and her blatant partisan intentions and represent her constituents better. But she isn't the only problem. Here's an image of a potential redistricting map that's been floating around the capitol this evening:

Worst I've seen so far, and that's saying something.

I would have thought that was a joke but after seeing the Pig Trail Gerrymander I imagine it isn't. That map must be a product of the super software we've been hearing about. I wonder if it isn't being put out in order to attempt to make the Pig Trail idea easier to take.

The Dems are digging themselves a hole that they won't be able to crawl out of. The trend in Arkansas is towards a Republican majority- if that happens you can bet if this plan passes they will change the map exactly how they want it without any regard for fairness or common interests. It is ridiculous for Hall to say that it would be good for NWA to have two representatives when his area of the state could end up with no representation at all if this plan passes.

Madison needs to recuse from her committee chairperson position if she refuses to support Fayetteville's best intersests.

[thewizard16]

A quick update- The Pig Trail Gerrymander/ Fayetteville Finger just passed the House with 52 votes. It's up to the Senate to decide it's fate now. Everyone responsible for this blatant politically motivated gerrymander deserves to be booted out next election, in my opinion.

[Mith242]

A quick update- The Pig Trail Gerrymander/ Fayetteville Finger just passed the House with 52 votes. It's up to the Senate to decide it's fate now. Everyone responsible for this blatant politically motivated gerrymander deserves to be booted out next election, in my opinion.

Yeah I heard about that. Just so that everyone knows. Greg Leding (D-Fayetteville) voted for the bill Reps. Charlie Collins (R-Fayetteville) and Uvalde Lindsey (D-Fayetteville) voted against it. I hope everyone remembers to 'thank' Greg Leding later. The bill now goes to Sue Madison's committee. Now we have to see what she does.

[RAK]

Yeah I heard about that. Just so that everyone knows. Greg Leding (D-Fayetteville) voted for the bill Reps. Charlie Collins (R-Fayetteville) and Uvalde Lindsey (D-Fayetteville) voted against it. I hope everyone remembers to 'thank' Greg Leding later. The bill now goes to Sue Madison's committee. Now we have to see what she does.

Okay, this is just repulsive. Are the Dems as a whole --- and I know there are some against it --- just so desperate to regain the US rep seats they lost? This might actually work against them.

And will people please stop voting for Sue Madison? What has she done for this state, as opposed to her party?

[Mith242]

Okay, this is just repulsive. Are the Dems as a whole --- and I know there are some against it --- just so desperate to regain the US rep seats they lost? This might actually work against them.

And will people please stop voting for Sue Madison? What has she done for this state, as opposed to her party?

This has certainly changed how I view a number of Democrats. And I've got to agree with you about Sue Madison. I'm not quite sure who keeps voting for her. Maybe she'll prove me wrong. But I just have a feeling she's going to vote for this redistricting plan.

[zman9810]

So now the plan goes to the Senate committee that Madison is chairman of. The committee has 4 Democrats and 4 Republicans. Assuming that the other 3 Dems vote to send it to the full Senate and the 4 Republicans do not that leaves the decison squarely in Madison's hands- she can vote for and it would take a majority of the Senate to bring it out of committee to be considered. It would still be possible for it to pass because of the 35 Senators, 20 are Democrats. Either way, Madison is going to have to take a stand to either look out for Fayetteville's best interests or the party.

One thing I'm still not clear on is if the bill is defeated in the committee can the Senate still pull it out and vote on it? What would be the point of having a committee if that scenario is possible?

Edited March 31, 2011 by zman9810

[aerotive]

What I don't get is why so much of the focus is on Fayetteville. A quarter million people from all around the state need to be moved to new districts but so much of the statewide reporting and talk is about us.

[Mith242]

What I don't get is why so much of the focus is on Fayetteville. A quarter million people from all around the state need to be moved to new districts but so much of the statewide reporting and talk is about us.

For one thing I think this move really caught a lot of people off guard. Usually when redistricting happens they simply take away counties on the edges of districts. They've never really split counties up and especially in a case like this where you have a long thin sliver of land just to get a target city. Also I don't think in a lot of cases have you had such a large city get moved. Granted I think some people sorta though Ft Smith might get taken. But in that case I don't think people in Ft Smith would have been that shocked. This really caught people in Fayetteville off guard and no one really saw this move coming. Maybe this is being blown out of proportion and it won't be such a big deal in the long run. But I really don't think there's that many people in Fayetteville who see this as being beneficial to the city or the people in it. With so much of the third district made up of south Arkansas. I think people in NWA already sometime feel like we get overlooked over in this corner of the state. And in this case I think there's a realistic chance Fayetteville is going to be overlooked in our little cranny of this possible district. Even if both areas tend to vote Democrat, I don't think it means people in both areas have the same needs. Even if we knew this was coming I'd imagine it would still get a lot of attention. Rarely does anything go down in Fayetteville without some controversy. But being blindsided like this just made it an even bigger deal.

[thewizard16]

For one thing I think this move really caught a lot of people off guard. Usually when redistricting happens they simply take away counties on the edges of districts. They've never really split counties up and especially in a case like this where you have a long thin sliver of land just to get a target city. Also I don't think in a lot of cases have you had such a large city get moved. Granted I think some people sorta though Ft Smith might get taken. But in that case I don't think people in Ft Smith would have been that shocked. This really caught people in Fayetteville off guard and no one really saw this move coming. Maybe this is being blown out of proportion and it won't be such a big deal in the long run. But I really don't think there's that many people in Fayetteville who see this as being beneficial to the city or the people in it. With so much of the third district made up of south Arkansas. I think people in NWA already sometime feel like we get overlooked over in this corner of the state. And in this case I think there's a realistic chance Fayetteville is going to be overlooked in our little cranny of this possible district. Even if both areas tend to vote Democrat, I don't think it means people in both areas have the same needs. Even if we knew this was coming I'd imagine it would still get a lot of attention. Rarely does anything go down in Fayetteville without some controversy. But being blindsided like this just made it an even bigger deal.

The only people I've talked to that are for this so far only have political reasons for liking the Fayetteville Finger proposal. I've talked to friends in Fayetteville and some in south Arkansas, and none of them like it. South Arkansasans seem to feel having Fayetteville in their district will result in their needs being overlooked and the district's identity as an agricultural, rural area being lost. Fayetteville would also have a significant amount of sway on the overall vote of the region. Fayetteville residents seem to feel the same way- they think the city being lumped in with a region of the state that is so dissimilar will destroy any chance at NWA working together to secure new federal resources for highway improvements, transit, etc. and Fayetteville's needs may go overlooked to focus on agriculture, etc. issues. Aside from partisan reasons (which may not be as sure a thing as the sponsoring politicians seem to think), I just can't see any way this plan is beneficial to either area.

[Mith242]

The only people I've talked to that are for this so far only have political reasons for liking the Fayetteville Finger proposal. I've talked to friends in Fayetteville and some in south Arkansas, and none of them like it. South Arkansasans seem to feel having Fayetteville in their district will result in their needs being overlooked and the district's identity as an agricultural, rural area being lost. Fayetteville would also have a significant amount of sway on the overall vote of the region. Fayetteville residents seem to feel the same way- they think the city being lumped in with a region of the state that is so dissimilar will destroy any chance at NWA working together to secure new federal resources for highway improvements, transit, etc. and Fayetteville's needs may go overlooked to focus on agriculture, etc. issues. Aside from partisan reasons (which may not be as sure a thing as the sponsoring politicians seem to think), I just can't see any way this plan is beneficial to either area.

And as jdevers pointed out earlier. Although both areas tend to vote Democrat, they tend to go for different types of Democrats. So even that isn't going to help much in unifying the two areas. I've wondered if Fayetteville could actually end up actually having a chance of wielding a lot of power in the Fourth. I suppose it's possible but I think it's more likely to run the other way. Even though Ft Smith isn't that much bigger than Fayetteville, I think Ft Smith could yield more power in the Fourth than Fayetteville. While Ft Smith and the Fourth don't tend to vote for the same party. They both in many ways are conservative in a number of areas. I think that could work to Ft Smith's advantage. And I think it's also why Democrats don't want Ft Smith in the Fourth. It could sway the area to becoming more Republican. But I think Fayetteville may be too 'different'. Even if the current representative is willing to bend to Fayetteville. Seems to me in the next election south Arkansas will simply unite and vote for someone who's going to represent them not Fayetteville. Even though Fayetteville will be the biggest city in the Fourth. I think it's going to be hard to out-vote an entire region of the state that doesn't share your opinions on most matters. So in the long run I see Fayetteville losing out in this situation.

And I guess I should also mention. I'm not some 'sheltered Fayetteville person who's never even seen south Arkansas. While I've now spent more time in Fayetteville than south Arkansas. I've still spend quite a bit of my life down there as well. I just can't see the two areas meshing well.

[aerotive]

Couple of noteworthy thing in today's paper.

The quarry lawsuit is dead, a given since the city backed off its original position that it could regulate quarries outside city limits:

http://www.nwaonline...quarry-lawsuit/

The potential referendum to repeal the streamside protection ordinance failed to get enough signatures:

http://www.nwaonline...ush-referendum/

Also, seemed like at least half the city was at the farmer's market today.

Edited April 2, 2011 by aerotive

[Mith242]

Couple of noteworthy thing in today's paper.

The quarry lawsuit is dead, a given since the city backed off its original position that it could regulate quarries outside city limits:

http://www.nwaonline...quarry-lawsuit/

The potential referendum to repeal the streamside protection ordinance failed to get enough signatures:

http://www.nwaonline...ush-referendum/

Also, seemed like at least half the city was at the farmer's market today.

Thanks for the updates. Yeah today was the first day of the Farmer's Market.

[zman9810]

Couple of noteworthy thing in today's paper.

The quarry lawsuit is dead, a given since the city backed off its original position that it could regulate quarries outside city limits:

http://www.nwaonline...quarry-lawsuit/

The potential referendum to repeal the streamside protection ordinance failed to get enough signatures:

http://www.nwaonline...ush-referendum/

Also, seemed like at least half the city was at the farmer's market today.

The quarry situation turned out for the best for all involved- it means the quarries won't be ran out of business and the costs of this basic construction material won't skyrocket. Taxpayers area-wide should appreciate this news.

With the extremely short window in which to gather the required number it's not surprising that enough signatures weren't gathered. There is still a movement to take legal action concerning the ordinance and hopefully it will succeed. The blatant taking of private property rights without compensation needs to be challenged. The anti-growth crowd in the city needs to be prevented from taking advantage of the sour economic conditions and passing laws that would be fought more vigorously in better times.

In the other hot topic news- the congressional redistricting plan will be addressed by the state legislature next week. Right now it is looking more and more likely that there won't be enough votes in the Senate to pass the Pig Trail Gerrymander. There are enough honorable Democrats in the rest of the state that realize this is a bad plan and will not support it. It may end up in federal court in which case a judge will decide what is fair and workable. This would be a positive development IMO- obviously the partisan members of the Legislature haven't been able to do so. Madison still won't tip her hand as to how she will vote- thank goodness this is her last term in state government. She is a good example of why politicians are generally viewed with such negativity.

[thewizard16]

The Fayetteville Finger proposal was killed in committee today. It could still be drug to the Senate floor if a majority of the Senate wants to hear it, but I really hope that isn't the case. I'm very disappointed in the House for passing it, and I think those that pushed for it would be wise to watch their political backs come next election.

Article here: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/apr/04/lawmakers-try-complete-redistricting-work/

[Mith242]

The Fayetteville Finger proposal was killed in committee today. It could still be drug to the Senate floor if a majority of the Senate wants to hear it, but I really hope that isn't the case. I'm very disappointed in the House for passing it, and I think those that pushed for it would be wise to watch their political backs come next election.

Article here: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/apr/04/lawmakers-try-complete-redistricting-work/

Yeah just heard about it myself and came over to post about it. From what I hear expect it to go to the Senate floor. So while this is a setback for the proposal it's certainly not dead by any means. I think this still has legs and has a decent chance at passing.

[zman9810]

Even it is pulled to the Senate floor it will still take 18 votes to pass it. There are 20 Democrats and at least two from outside the 3rd district have said they don't support it. It may still come down to how Madison votes.

[thewizard16]

Another proposal that leaves Fayetteville alone and only splits two counties passed committee today and is headed to the full senate tomorrow. I don't have a picture of this map yet though, so that's all I know about it.

EDIT: Scratch that. Thank you to my friend at the Capitol!

Edited April 6, 2011 by thewizard16

[zman9810]

Another proposal that leaves Fayetteville alone and only splits two counties passed committee today and is headed to the full senate tomorrow. I don't have a picture of this map yet though, so that's all I know about it.

EDIT: Scratch that. Thank you to my friend at the Capitol!

Thanks for the info- that looks likely to pass. They are determined to keep Russellville in the 3rd and I bet that is because Womack wants it that way. Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall in some of those discussions?