City Center / Virginia BioTech Park

[upzoningisgood]

@wrldcoupe4 Let me clarify (and maybe amend)

I was talking about the construction industry across the. United States, not just in Richmond, which has seen approximately zero productivity growth since 1947 (https://theatlas.com/charts/BJUjtN1ix). Now, what I didn't know is that multifamily construction specifically actually has seen good productivity growth in the past decade, although it seems to have stalled in the second half of the decade (https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-construction-productivity), and it's other sectors, mostly infrastructure-adjacent, that have seen real stagnation or even decline (https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2018/article/measuring-productivity-growth-in-construction.htm) . So, saying that construction is a low productivity growth industry is correct, but that doesn't seem to be entirely correct for multifamily. Now I know.

@I miss RVA Technically, land value is the most important determinant for building height, because you're trying to get the most bang for your buck (reduce average fixed costs, basically). That being said, land value tracks rental rates closely because higher rents generate more money and investors will compensate landowners more for the opportunity to make more money. Rental rates usually get quoted because the info is more readily available and more current, but at the root of the building height decision is really land value, which is why there is a close association between market size and building height. There are more people who want to live in a square mile of a large city than a small city almost by definition, meaning that land can generate more income, meaning land prices/rent is high, meaning buildings get taller to squeeze all of the value out of the scarce land. 

Now, technically you could have a high land value and low rent if you built a colossal mega apartment where the business model is to run major volume. As a practical matter, you don't see that happen because larger buildings are more complex and require more expensive materials which jacks up the construction costs and requires a higher starting rent to break even. 

[whw53]

It is with a heavy heart I announce the passing of the much anticipated 20 story VCU tower as part of the Capital City project between 9th and 10th. A POD filed today for the project shows a much truncated concept.

 

[wrldcoupe4]

That's lame, but it is still good density in that location.

[eandslee]

4 minutes ago, whw53 said:

It is with a heavy heart I announce the passing of the much anticipated 20 story VCU tower as part of the Capital City project between 9th and 10th. A POD filed today for the project shows a much truncated concept.

 

Sad, sad...sad indeed.  I had a feeling....sigh....

[I miss RVA]

Say it aint' so, Joe...

Dear Lord... this is absolutely AWFUL...  I'd just as soon it not even get built. We can wait a little longer for something bigger and better. What a horrible joke... 

I get that the pandemic and office space requirements, etc., and inflation, high construction costs all have been a rather unfortunate perfect storm. But WHAT pray tell caused them to BUTCHER this project so severely? I can't tell from this rendering -- is the office building even 10 stories? It doesn't look like it is.

Edited March 14, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

3 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

That's lame, but it is still good density in that location.

Agree with your sentiment, was trying to put words to this but you said it already. 

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

That's lame, but it is still good density in that location.

Coupe - you'll forgive me - but I agree with only  half of your assessment. It's lame, alright. Lame to the point that it's downright sickening.

[Hike]

8 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Coupe - you'll forgive me - but I agree with only  half of your assessment. It's lame, alright. Lame to the point that it's downright sickening.

It's unfortunate and a bummer for sure, was looking forward to this one.  As a fan on the sidelines of developments, this is a pass up the middle to the tight end and the ball barely crossed the line, referees had to confirm a first down play. I'm still hopeful that one of the next drives will be a post route, diving one handed catch in the end zone with no penalties.

[Shakman]

Perhaps it will be built to support an addition(s)?  Hopefully.

[Downtowner]

Did the 1960s call or something? What is that crap? Not only is it a short piece of garbage but an ugly piece of garbage. I will stand in front of that lot and halt all construction and demand they leave it alone until vcu can make it taller again. I’m sorry are we sure this is even a vcu project anymore? Is it? Also if this is what is in mind for city center and the diamond district then I want no part of it I’m sorry I’m so mad I’m fuming at this. I wish I never saw this. Vcu throw this in the dumpster and set it on fire. Throw gasoline on it and light it on fire and go back the drawing board. 

[whw53]

Heloo any room for residential? We need apartments - lets pop 10 stories on top of each of these buildings. 

[Hike]

18 hours ago, whw53 said:

It is with a heavy heart I announce the passing of the much anticipated 20 story VCU tower as part of the Capital City project between 9th and 10th. A POD filed today for the project shows a much truncated concept.

 

Are you able to look at the drawings, confirming this is office space, looks like it could be a base for parking only and perhaps the office is on top in the future? 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Hike

[Downtowner]

Are we sure vcu is even part of this project anymore? This doesn’t look like vcu at all. 

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, whw53 said:

Heloo any room for residential? We need apartments - lets pop 10 stories on top of each of these buildings. 

Residential would also fit nicely into the City Center plans - makes total sense. I wonder if the developer even though of that?

[whw53]

According to plan submittal - parking is below grade. POD usually covers entirety of site plan even if development wise different plans \permits need to be filed for the individual buildings

https://energov.richmondgov.com/EnerGov_Prod/SelfService/richmondvaprod#/plan/4d4f25d7-4c91-4f4c-81cf-5da4fa18ced4?tab=attachments

Edited March 15, 2022 by whw53

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Hike said:

It's unfortunate and a bummer for sure, was looking forward to this one.  As a fan on the sidelines of developments, this is a pass up the middle to the tight end and the ball barely crossed the line, referees had to confirm a first down play. I'm still hopeful that one of the next drives will be a post route, diving one handed catch in the end zone with no penalties.

Honestly - to use your analogy: if I'm wearing a zebra shirt, I'm throwing a flag for illegal formation.

This project -- in its current iteration -- needs to be shelved immediately.  This is awful on the same level as 512 Hull Street was awful - and as the gorgeous Locks at 321 being replaced by a 12-story shoebox was awful.

This is a trend that I'm REALLLLLY not liking. And how much do you want to bet that NO ONE is pulling back from 35-40-45-story projects in Charlotte or Raleigh? Even with the increased construction costs? It seems like RVA ALWAYS gets hit hard when it comes to economic factors that truncate - or flat out cancel - projects. Much more so than other cities.

[Hike]

16 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Honestly - to use your analogy: if I'm wearing a zebra shirt, I'm throwing a flag for illegal formation.

This project -- in its current iteration -- needs to be shelved immediately.  This is awful on the same level as 512 Hull Street was awful - and as the gorgeous Locks at 321 being replaced by a 12-story shoebox was awful.

This is a trend that I'm REALLLLLY not liking. And how much do you want to bet that NO ONE is pulling back from 35-40-45-story projects in Charlotte or Raleigh? Even with the increased construction costs? It seems like RVA ALWAYS gets hit hard when it comes to economic factors that truncate - or flat out cancel - projects. Much more so than other cities.

I wish you were wrong,  but it's true. 

[upzoningisgood]

I’d bet they get yanked all the time. Projects fall through for a multitude of reasons. The reason it doesn’t seem like for Charlotte and Raleigh is that is they have like 30 of these building in the pipeline (and I don’t mean renderings—I mean like money down) and we have like maybe 2. 
 

The fact of the matter is that Richmond is growing fine but nowhere near a supernova pace and so we are not getting supernova pace development. Taller buildings will not come in any sustained way until that happens. Of course, the flip side is rents would be 50% higher so pick your poison.

Edited March 15, 2022 by upzoningisgood

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Shakman said:

Perhaps it will be built to support an addition(s)?  Hopefully.

I wouldn't hold my breath. It doesn't look like it can be added onto at a later date -- and with the exception of the Children's Hospital, I have yet to see ANY project build with the claim of being "expandable in the future" EVER follow through on that claim. IF I recall correctly, the Richmond Marriott was allegedly designed to be expandable with a second hotel tower. Unless said tower has been shrouded all these years in a Klingon cloaking device, I believe that second tower was nothing more than optimistic 'smoke' blown at us by the developers at the time. And Three James Center -- the lovely Lego-block building that's nearly a short as the Omni Hotel that sits next to it - I though was supposed to be expandable to anywhere from 26 to 40-ish stories. Again, has the same Klingon cloaking device been applied to that expansion as well?

If this project goes through and is built in its current iteration - which frankly is an abhorrant, utter, abject WASTE of perfectly good, developable space, then as far as Block D goes, we're regally screwed. Kiss the 20-story tower hasta la bye-bye. Kiss the other nine-to-eleven story buildings that would have beautifully filled out that block goodbye as well. Those gorgeous buildings appear to be ready to sprout wing and flap off into that sweet night. 

And I hate to be the jerk who keeps pounding this big bass drum - but I just KNOW this kinda thing wouldn't be happening right now in Charlotte or Raleight or Austin or Nashville. At least not right now. I'm not saying those cities are bulletproof when it comes to projects getting waylaid by increasing construction costs, but they do seem to be much more immune to them - whereas RVA seems to be much more vulnerable to them.

Edited March 15, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

Unlike those cities, we are relying on public hospitals to grow our downtown.   The only positive spin to put on this is that there aren’t enough ill people to fill another ten floors of hospital rooms.   

I’m glad that VCU medical center has gotten a bit more flashy but I’ve always been reluctant to get too gung ho about  hospitals  building vanity projects on the backs of sick people with  ludicrous insurance policies. 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, upzoningisgood said:

I’d bet they get yanked all the time. Projects fall through for a multitude of reasons. The reason it doesn’t seem like for Charlotte and Raleigh is that is they have like 30 of these building in the pipeline (and I don’t mean renderings—I mean like money down) and we have like maybe 2. 
 

The fact of the matter is that Richmond is growing fine but nowhere near a supernova pace and so we are not getting supernova pace development. Taller buildings will not come in any sustained way until that happens. Of course, the flip side is rents would be 50% higher so pick your poison.

Sure - rents will climb, there's no denying that. But as the COL of a city or market increases, so too does the level of income. Even if it's not a direct 1:1 corresponding increase in salary/wages, income DOES rise to match COL of metro areas. So a spike in rent will be offset at least some by an increase in overall income as the market size increases.

Edited March 15, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

I've been digging around trying to find drawings of the schematic design drawing set cover sheet that were looking at from @whw53 and can't find anything yet.  I did find, what looks to be a current consultant, linked here, https://www.concordeastridge.com/our-projects/active-projects/vcuhs-2/ that has a few drawings I hadn't seen. 

Maybe this was known but I'm seeing the office is 90,000 sq.ft. of spec office.

That could be deleted/priced separately/abandoned, just not sure.  The concord eastridge consultant had 2 drawings that show clearly that the office is on top of what looks like is shown on the schematic set we're all looking at.  I'm still hopeful the office component is not over but being priced separately in the near future.  Looking at the rendering from the schematic, that looks an awful lot like parking, not a truncated office building. 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Hike

[Icetera]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

I've been digging around trying to find drawings of the schematic design drawing set cover sheet that were looking at from @whw53 and can't find anything yet.  I did find, what looks to be a current consultant, linked here, https://www.concordeastridge.com/our-projects/active-projects/vcuhs-2/ that has a few drawings I hadn't seen. 

Maybe this was known but I'm seeing the office is 90,000 sq.ft. of spec office.

That could be deleted/priced separately/abandoned, just not sure.  The concord eastridge consultant had 2 drawings that show clearly that the office is on top of what looks like is shown on the schematic set we're all looking at.  I'm still hopeful the office component is not over but being priced separately in the near future.  Looking at the rendering from the schematic, that looks an awful lot like parking, not a truncated office building. 

 

 

 

The floor plans were in the attached PDF within the POD.  It is definitely 6 lab floors plus first floor lobby with 4 below-grade parking levels.  Unfortunately, I cannot tell if it is designed to support future floors.


 

[Hike]

37 minutes ago, Icetera said:

The floor plans were in the attached PDF within the POD.  It is definitely 6 lab floors plus first floor lobby with 4 below-grade parking levels.  Unfortunately, I cannot tell if it is designed to support future floors.


 

Well, there goes that hopeful theory. I don't have access to drawings any longer now that I've switched careers. Yeah, that's a bummer then,  feel like the taller building is done, so I'll go ahead and let that go....

[123fakestreet]

https://richmondbizsense.com/2022/03/25/new-plans-to-replace-public-safety-building-show-scaled-down-project/

 

RBS with some info. Says tower scaled down from 20 to 7 levels, but a little confusing because then it says it will be 12 stories in height. My guess is it was 20 stories with parking below grade and has been changed to 7 stories on top of parking above grade.

Net effect on skyline is from 20 down to 12, with the other two buildings going slightly shorter from 9 stories down to 7 and 8.

Always disappointing to see things scaled back, but this seems to happen a lot, have to expect it. Still thrilled that awful eyesore is being replaced with a major complex of 3 buildings including a 12 story one, that's some solid height, way more than the 2 stories that are there now.

Edited March 25, 2022 by 123fakestreet