Economic Development - Expansions and Relocations

[rancenc]

Even smaller municipalities in the metro area are revisiting incentive packages if companies to not meet their targets...case in point the Town of China Grove with the new Macy's operations under construction.

https://www.salisburypost.com/2023/08/04/china-grove-reduces-macys-tax-incentive-package/

[krazeeboi]

On 7/21/2023 at 11:40 PM, Phillydog said:

Spending a bigger part of my time in Virginia now (I can't bring myself to give up my house in Durham) the one thing about North Carolinians that I realize I love the most is your humbleness.  North Carolinians aren't bloviators....like Texans, Georgians, Tennesseans, and of course, god help us, Virginians - and I think this quality is both admirable and holds us back.   We have always been an in-between state, like Connecticut (where I grew up), New Jersey, Maryland, etc. sandwiched between states with very high opinions of themselves.  

As a native South Carolinian who attended undergrad and lived in the Charlotte region for some years afterwards in the aughts, I have to chuckle quite a bit at the ahistoricity of this sentiment.

But one thing I can say is that the political developments in NC during the Obama years (whew) along with SC's notable growth and development spurt around the same time served as a nice slice of humble pie that NCers, to their credit, went ahead and ate. But prior to that, nobody alive who was truly being honest would say SC was the Carolina "mountain of conceit."

[kermit]

On 8/6/2023 at 6:05 PM, krazeeboi said:

As a native South Carolinian who attended undergrad and lived in the Charlotte region for some years afterwards in the aughts, I have to chuckle quite a bit at the ahistoricity of this sentiment.

But one thing I can say is that the political developments in NC during the Obama years (whew) along with SC's notable growth and development spurt around the same time served as a nice slice of humble pie that NCers, to their credit, went ahead and ate. But prior to that, nobody alive who was truly being honest would say SC was the Carolina "mountain of conceit."

There is a timeframe disconnect in this discussion. I agree that NC’s ‘humility’ did sorta vanish in the aughts and SC’s confidence took a hit in the last part of the 20th c. But the concept of NC contrasting dramatically with its neighbors has been around  since the Civil War and mostly harkens back to NC’s hemisphere-leading poverty in the 19th and early 20th century contrasted with Virginia and SC’s flourishing plantation (aka slave) economies.

Quote

"Vale of Humility between Two Mountains of Conceit" is a phrase describing North Carolina that originated from a speech given by Mary Oates Spratt Van Landingham on 6 Mar. 1900. That day, she spoke on the "native literature" of North Carolina before the Mecklenburg Historical Society in Charlotte. Referencing North Carolina's location between South Carolina and Virginia, Van Landingham said, "Where there are mountains of conceit, there are apt to be valleys of humility." The term has remained a source of tongue-in-cheek pride for North Carolinians.

 

From https://www.ncpedia.org/vale-humility-between-two-mountains

Edited August 8, 2023 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Looks like Project Swarm in Kannapolis is Chick-fil-A and their distribution center.  They have one up in Mebane but no other ones near here. $41 M and 112 jobs.  This is the business park that that is on the old baseball stadium site at exit 63 off I-85. 

""A permit for Project Swarm was recorded this week for a site at Lakeshore, public records show. A contact person listed on the document was with CFA Supply, a distribution service provider that is a subsidiary of Chick-fil-A Inc. Multiple sources told the Charlotte Business Journal that Chick-fil-A is the company behind Project Swarm.  The projected average annual wages for the jobs created by Project Swarm would be over $60,000.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/08/16/chick-fil-a-kannapolis-intimidators-industrial.html

https://www.choateco.com/project/lakeshore-corporate-park/

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

the Charlotte region grew last quarter but economic announcements were less than year ago.

Economic Growth Report | Charlotte Regional Business Alliance

and whatever happened between CBRA and Union County needs to be fixed.  It looks weird to not have any information on the county next door to Mecklenburg and home to many of its workers. 

[rancenc]

The importance of the National Parks on the economy of the state was very pronounced last year!

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/community/north-carolina-national-parks-contributing-to-states-economy/83-4f078596-5cb2-403f-b0d9-968bb3a14a95

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, rancenc said:

The importance of the National Parks on the economy of the state was very pronounced last year!

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/community/north-carolina-national-parks-contributing-to-states-economy/83-4f078596-5cb2-403f-b0d9-968bb3a14a95

Another article I can't view.  Anyway, eco tourism is a wonderful thing. I just wish we had more National and State parks in this state.  I wish there were one of substance surrounding Crowders and Kings Mountains so that we could have something other than a casino to draw in folks.  And, they DO draw.

[KJHburg]

I was at the Cabarrus EDC summit meeting last week featuring Chris Chung the head of the EDPNC chief economic development recruiter.

Some notes about the state in general about prospects and successes:

Record number of jobs announced in both 2021 and 2022.

the pipeline right now is 243 projects possible 76,000 jobs and $57 Billion obviously we won't win all of them or some wont materialize at all but great sales pipeline.

Before covid the Manufacturing/Distribution projects vs Office based projects was 70% to 30% so 30% office projects.  Now this ratio is 95% to 5% just 5% for office relocations or expansion.

Of these huge pipeline right now 1 out of 7 is automotive related, 1 out of 7 energy related, 1 out of 10 food processing,  40% are foreign based companies from these 3 top countries: China Germany and Japan .    The pipeline does include semiconductors and biopharma too. 

Survey of corporate real estate execs in 2022/23 list these top factors and (numbers from ranking before Covid hit)

1. Labor cost

2. Quality of Life moved up from #11 tie in previous studies. 

3. Availability of skilled down from #2

4. Energy availability

5. Construction cost moved up from tie at #11

Challenges and opportunities:  Labor availability, product availability (sites and megasites ready to go) Our competition the usual suspects and social infrastructure.  

Praised the General Assembly for funding new mega sites  as many companies want to move quick.  

[J-Rob]

I am surprised office is at 5% now. I expected it to be lower than it was previously, but it seems like more and more companies are backtracking on remote/hybrid arrangements. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by J-Rob

[KJHburg]

""Of the six potential sites, most are clustered in Eastern North Carolina, including within the counties of Wilson, Brunswick, Cumberland, Nash and Pitt.""

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article279019424.html#storylink=cpy

One Charlotte area county may have a megasite in the making and that is in Rowan County.  Any huge project there would have ripple economic effects into Mecklenburg County and core metro counties.  

Current megasites in NC none of which are anywhere close to Charlotte.  

https://edpnc.com/megasites/

Map shows new areas targeted for megasites. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by KJHburg

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

""Of the six potential sites, most are clustered in Eastern North Carolina, including within the counties of Wilson, Brunswick, Cumberland, Nash and Pitt.""

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article279019424.html#storylink=cpy

One Charlotte area county may have a megasite in the making and that is in Rowan County.  Any huge project there would have ripple economic effects into Mecklenburg County and core metro counties.  

Current megasites in NC none of which are anywhere close to Charlotte.  

https://edpnc.com/megasites/

Map shows new areas targeted for megasites. 

'i wish we had as much enthusiasm for mega environment sites. So depressing to see so much land bulldozed just so hundreds of people can punch a clock and work on an assembly line.

[KJHburg]

28 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

'i wish we had as much enthusiasm for mega environment sites. So depressing to see so much land bulldozed just so hundreds of people can punch a clock and work on an assembly line.

It is better to be made here in the USA with our strict environmental laws vs some 3rd world country or China with lax controls and then have it imported to the USA across the globe.  Making stuff in the USA is so much better for the environment than transporting something all the way across the world on diesel power container ships.  

[Windsurfer]

10 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

It is better to be made here in the USA with our strict environmental laws vs some 3rd world country or China with lax controls and then have it imported to the USA across the globe.  Making stuff in the USA is so much better for the environment than transporting something all the way across the world on diesel power container ships.  

What environmental controls?  When I see and read these articles about "megasites" all I see are huge swaths of areas completely bulldozed.  These local yokels can't bend over far enough to land these companies. Environmental regs go right out the window for "jobs".

There are ways of developing these sites without such abject destruction.  When you drive through most of the small old mill towns in the Piedmont, for example, you can see old mill sites just caving in.  The truth is, it's easier to log off the land, bulldoze and start from scratch than to have to actually clean up an old mill site, quarry or big box parking lot.  

Just look at the picture in the article.  You aren't disturbed at all at all that bulldozing of forest?

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

What environmental controls?  When I see and read these articles about "megasites" all I see are huge swaths of areas completely bulldozed.  These local yokels can't bend over far enough to land these companies. Environmental regs go right out the window for "jobs".

There are ways of developing these sites without such abject destruction.  When you drive through most of the small old mill towns in the Piedmont, for example, you can see old mill sites just caving in.  The truth is, it's easier to log off the land, bulldoze and start from scratch than to have to actually clean up an old mill site, quarry or big box parking lot.  

Just look at the picture in the article.  You aren't disturbed at all at all that bulldozing of forest?

some are cleared for sure but many are farm fields.  Reminds me of the Apple solar farm they built for their green initiatives for their data center in Maiden in Catawba County.  They mowed down a huge forest to put up their field of solar panels.  In terms of mega site they are just that huge.  1000 plus acres. they are not any big mills sitting around in NC anymore with that kind of acreage most have been redeveloped into something else.  Quarries are better developed into parks with deep lakes as soil compaction would be a big problem with a huge manufacturing plant on a concrete slab that needs exact level floors.  No I dont like trees or forests to be developed but unfortunately it has happened to many times.   What environmental regulations are being ignored by the current large plants under construction in NC?  

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

some are cleared for sure but many are farm fields.  Reminds me of the Apple solar farm they built for their green initiatives for their data center in Maiden in Catawba County.  They mowed down a huge forest to put up their field of solar panels.  In terms of mega site they are just that huge.  1000 plus acres. they are not any big mills sitting around in NC anymore with that kind of acreage most have been redeveloped into something else.  Quarries are better developed into parks with deep lakes as soil compaction would be a big problem with a huge manufacturing plant on a concrete slab that needs exact level floors.  No I dont like trees or forests to be developed but unfortunately it has happened to many times.   What environmental regulations are being ignored by the current large plants under construction in NC?  

The first thing that pops into my mind is the warehouse on 73 that was built in the watershed of Howell reservoir in Cabarrus County.  I have some other examples in mind, but worry about citing specific names. There's a huge one that was welcomed in Lenoir that had some local people upset and convinced the water flowing from and back into the river would affect fish habitat. 

My point is, I wish the possibility of preserving land were as exciting. 

 

[kermit]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

It is better to be made here in the USA with our strict environmental laws vs some 3rd world country or China with lax controls and then have it imported to the USA across the globe.  Making stuff in the USA is so much better for the environment than transporting something all the way across the world on diesel power container ships.  

First, apologies for the 'well actually'.

Second, this is kinda apples to oranges.

Third, this is from the interwebs and all I can say is that this might be true:

Edited September 13, 2023 by kermit

[KJHburg]

@kermit that may be truth but I am thinking of much larger more valuable products like EV batteries that Toyota will build at its megasite.  Or silicon carbide at Wolfspeeds megasite.  Plus our pharmacuetical products should be made in the USA as this could be a weapon in trade war or even hot war.   Products for North American consumers which are the most affluent in the world should be made on this continent to cut shipping costs and times and yes help the environment.  

@Windsurfer that warehouse you speak of is in Kannapolis and partially in a watershed for a water reservoir.  The owner of it Amazon a company whose services I avoid using at all costs.  Amazon created this need and of course Americans fell for it that we need something we buy online and have it delivered the next day (or sooner)  and thus they creating massive warehouses from coast to coast.  

"" As of 2021, Amazon’s fulfillment centers average about 800,000 square feet in size. The total number of Amazon warehouses in the United States, both current and confirmed, have amassed approximately 319 million square feet.""

How much land does Amazon actually own? - AZ Big Media

Before the massive growth of Amazon most warehouses worked from a hub and spoke model.  Now they must be built close to cities where the population is and many more of them to satisfy overnight shipping deliveries when Americans were willing to wait a few days or a week 10 years ago they seem not anyone.  The old concept of instant gratification.  For example Publix serves all its stores in North Carolina  from one  huge warehouse in Greensboro but Amazon has at least 9 warehouses in the Charlotte metro alone plus warehouses  over the rest of the states major metros.   Call it warehouse sprawl but it has happened everywhere in the country.  

[KJHburg]

Not Charlotte specifically but Amazon is now saying they need MORE warehouses to fulfill their same day orders like what I talked about above.

Amazon To Double Number Of Same-Day Delivery Facilities As Expedited Shipping Becomes Norm (bisnow.com)

[Windsurfer]

On 9/13/2023 at 2:16 AM, KJHburg said:

 

Before the massive growth of Amazon most warehouses worked from a hub and spoke model.  Now they must be built close to cities where the population is and many more of them to satisfy overnight shipping deliveries when Americans were willing to wait a few days or a week 10 years ago they seem not anyone.  The old concept of instant gratification.  For example Publix serves all its stores in North Carolina  from one  huge warehouse in Greensboro but Amazon has at least 9 warehouses in the Charlotte metro alone plus warehouses  over the rest of the states major metros.   Call it warehouse sprawl but it has happened everywhere in the country.  

Instant gratification is right. 

We had about a 150,000 square feet of warehouse for our auto parts business and shipped out about 2k boxes a day via UPS and Fedex. 90% of which went to rural garages and car dealers throughout the SE. We had so many customers in the upper part of Va. and MD that I set up a program where we'd load up a UPS trailer each afternoon around 4:00, have it driven directly to the UPS center in Northern Va where all the boxes would be shipped directly out of that distribution point the next day. Shipping actually worked out cheaper since we zone skipped and the rates were then calculated from that zone instead of from here to another one.  Additionally, customers received their boxes the next day. Guess what?  Our sales went down.  Customers became so used to the immediate shipments they quit stocking up on goods and instead just ordered as needed.  We quit that program and sales returned to normal.

My point being, not sure Amazon will find that catering to the customers this way will necessarily pay off in the end. If something like that happens we'll be stuck with a bunch of environmentally unfriendly buildings, higher unemployment and local businesses put out of business. (Kind of like what happened to me....'Amazon effect'.).

As you may note, I'm very disgusted with enabling these big places to destroy local economies and environment by way of tax incentives and bending environmental regs.

[atlrvr]

^^^ You were selling business-to-business, Amazon is selling business-to-customer, so I think the expectations are very different (households don't like to stock several months worth of inventory, they are the most JIT of any entities)

That said, I dislike Amazon for a multitude of different reasons, but I concede at this point there's no getting the toothpaste back in the tube, so adapting/mitigating the impacts should be the reasonable goal at this point.

[jthomas]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:38 PM, Windsurfer said:

The first thing that pops into my mind is the warehouse on 73 that was built in the watershed of Howell reservoir in Cabarrus County.  I have some other examples in mind, but worry about citing specific names. There's a huge one that was welcomed in Lenoir that had some local people upset and convinced the water flowing from and back into the river would affect fish habitat. 

My point is, I wish the possibility of preserving land were as exciting. 

 

I agree - you almost never hear urbanists talk about the wastefulness of industrial land use, but in some ways it is just as big of a problem as single-family sprawl. Industrial uses are seen as nuisances, so all of these new warehouse developments are surrounded by big, useless landscape buffers that do little to mitigate the impact of the facility, but waste a lot of land. Then, again because of the nuisance issue, these things are being built out on the fringes where there is no other option but to drive for employees. I think cities would be better off developing dense industrial districts within their existing built-up areas. There are already older warehouse/light industrial districts along interstate corridors in-town, for example, that could be redeveloped in a more intense fashion. This type of industrial area would leverage existing infrastructure and could be dense enough to actually be served by bus lines.

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, jthomas said:

I agree - you almost never hear urbanists talk about the wastefulness of industrial land use, but in some ways it is just as big of a problem as single-family sprawl. Industrial uses are seen as nuisances, so all of these new warehouse developments are surrounded by big, useless landscape buffers that do little to mitigate the impact of the facility, but waste a lot of land. Then, again because of the nuisance issue, these things are being built out on the fringes where there is no other option but to drive for employees. I think cities would be better off developing dense industrial districts within their existing built-up areas. There are already older warehouse/light industrial districts along interstate corridors in-town, for example, that could be redeveloped in a more intense fashion. This type of industrial area would leverage existing infrastructure and could be dense enough to actually be served by bus lines.

Couldn't have said it better.  We had about 9 acres of I-1 land at Statesville Ave.  No contingencies nor soil issues. Wthin walking distance of good labor with a bus stop out front. An on-off ramp on to 85, etc. etc.  Perfect for an Amazon warehouse I would think.  They didn't even want to look at it.  It sold, but the use will probably be different use.

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

^^^ You were selling business-to-business, Amazon is selling business-to-customer, so I think the expectations are very different (households don't like to stock several months worth of inventory, they are the most JIT of any entities)

That said, I dislike Amazon for a multitude of different reasons, but I concede at this point there's no getting the toothpaste back in the tube, so adapting/mitigating the impacts should be the reasonable goal at this point.

Tell that to my wife who orders a month supply of TP.

[KJHburg]

Clean tech unicorn company relocating their HQ to Charlotte and Southend.

Charlotte Inno - Clean-tech unicorn Palmetto moving HQ to Charlotte's South End from Charleston (bizjournals.com)

""A clean-technology company that achieved unicorn status in 2021 is moving its headquarters to Charlotte from Charleston, South Carolina, in October.

Palmetto, a clean-energy software company, is setting down roots in South End at 1616 Camden Road. That office will accommodate up to 200 employees. Chris Kemper, founder, chairman and CEO at Palmetto, said the firm started its transition to Charlotte earlier this year and was attracted to the city's talent pool in the innovation space. With a mission to "lead the world towards a clean energy future," the company hopes to execute that initiative locally as well.""

[J-Rob]

5 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Clean tech unicorn company relocating their HQ to Charlotte and Southend.

Charlotte Inno - Clean-tech unicorn Palmetto moving HQ to Charlotte's South End from Charleston (bizjournals.com)

""A clean-technology company that achieved unicorn status in 2021 is moving its headquarters to Charlotte from Charleston, South Carolina, in October.

Palmetto, a clean-energy software company, is setting down roots in South End at 1616 Camden Road. That office will accommodate up to 200 employees. Chris Kemper, founder, chairman and CEO at Palmetto, said the firm started its transition to Charlotte earlier this year and was attracted to the city's talent pool in the innovation space. With a mission to "lead the world towards a clean energy future," the company hopes to execute that initiative locally as well.""

"So we're really hoping that the Queen City kind of becomes ultimately the clean-tech hub for the country, and we think we can serve as a catalyst for that."

[KJHburg]

this is one of the fastest built new manufacturing plants I have seen.  The new $1 Billion Eli Lilly plant in Concord races to completion.

Lilly announces $1 billion investment in new manufacturing facility in North Carolina | Eli Lilly and Company